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Wow...what a rational idea.

I agree. Nothing in my thought process takes away from that (I don't think 🤔)

Pharm-to-Table is the way of the future.

I understand your argument. I just don’t like it. It has irritated me since I started researching the topic 30+ years ago. My current understanding is more intimate and would require much more learning and work. I think that we are capable and have the seeds of divinity within us. Every ordinance that we partake suggests such.

I don't mean to imply that we become merely (spiritual) baby-making machines for the "higher-ups". I think all the Elohim are very involved in the progress of their family. I think our concept of family ( ie... MY family and YOUR family) may need to be reframed as OUR family and OUR children- a unity we can't quite comprehend now.

I wanted to go into another problem that can be very difficult to deal with. In part, I think our poster @CV75 deals with the core of this problem with the statement: "The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, “that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven;” and all other things are only appendages to these, which pertain to our religion." The statement itself is not the problem as much as what individuals interpret and think this means. Before diving deep into describing what I think will turn out to be an excellent can of worms, I need to make clear an observation and opinion that I have. This concerns the Proclamation on the Family and the importance of traditional families to stability and sustainability of societies – not just here in mortality but in eternity also. Without fathers and mothers loving and merciful towards each other and their children as a predominant principle defining a society – all other societies (anything else) are unstable, unstainable, corrupt and unjust. Now I will attempt to highlight the problem with one word – sex. Not just as a reference of gender but as a core principle of marriage and family. Perhaps I am wrong and misinterpreting trends within religion but there seems to be a reluctance within many religious circles to openly acknowledge the importance of sex in relationship to the salvation of mankind. What part does the doctrines of sex have to do with the above quote concerning Jesus Christ and the atonement? Answer: - In essence – I believe it is the means of creation of life, the foundation of family and the reason for the Law of Chasity. It is why there is gender and the reason that male and female are created in the image and likeness of G-d. Because we believe in a mother and father in heaven, I have had discussions with many religious people that are concerned that sexual relationships would take place in eternity. That G-d would so act or that Jesus would marry is not believed in any way to define G-d or within the nature of G-d. That no one in heaven is married or involved in sex. But why would I believe that it is marriage? (Note - that marriage must occur here in mortality and be sealed here by the same power given to Peter to seal on earth that which will be sealed in heaven. Because there is no initiation of marriage that takes place in heaven – it must be done here.) We are starting to see why marriage is necessary and an attribute of G-d, unfolding in these Last days. We are seeing why the Proclamation of the Family was prophetic and given by prophecy directly for our time. The columniation of the LGBTQ+ movement is reaching its pinnacle and purpose with the explanation of what the LGBTQ+ movements calls non-binary. Non-binary for LGBTQ+ is the transcendence to the divine. Because it is so widely believed that G-d the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ are the divine expression of non-binary. The logical and inevitable result of no marriage between a husband and wife, father and mother defining family is a non-binary society as defined by the LGBTQ+ movement. Satan has taken the arguments against the Saints and turned it against our critics in ways our critics did not foresee nor understand. The notion that we worship a different Jesus (G-d) is not a claim we initiated. Many times, I have been told that eternal marriage is not necessary nor in any way defines divine society. Now we can see, not only why the doctrine of family is true but why it is necessary to go against what is the traditional doctrine of our other Christian cousins. G-d created us to be binary in the image and likeness of G-d and the binary he has created is male and female. This binary is the way and means by which every person is born and able to be obedient to the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth (sex). There is one other thing I believe. We all have our agency and if some guy wants to identify as something other than that guy created by G-d or some girl that wants to identify as something else – that is their choice. I believe G-d still loves them and so I will try to love them too, but they will never be a part of the glory of G-d or have increase. The Traveler

Your argument is valid. I just don’t like it. The KFD and Lorenzo Snow’s couplet suggest so much more though. As well as scriptures like 3 Ne 27:27 and D&C 122:7-8

"But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." (Doctrine and Covenants 132:63) "Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny." (The Family Proclamation) *** I believe this may be non-specific enough to allow for my current idea that our spiritual parentage may be from various celestial marriages, but as they are united in purpose, we as children are to direct all worship to the Father-Son lineage who represent all the spiritual parents. Elohim being plural may be much more expansive than our current understanding.

In the long term (10+ years), I don’t think Taiwan is defensible by the US against invasion by a peer (or, as the Chicoms are likely to become soon, superior) military power—the geography is against us. IMHO the US should offer political asylum for any Taiwanese national who wants it; incentivize their tech industries to set up additional factories on American soil, support Japan, South Korea, and Australia becoming open nuclear powers; and scale back our own military engagement in the region.

Do we not become the adopted sons and daughters of Jesus Christ upon entering into the eternal covenant? This earth becomes our celestial home with Jesus reigning as our God and Father. We don't return to God the Father's celestial residence - which would be the same earth upon which His fellows would dwell which faithfully passed through their probationary cycle.

OK, we create spirit children. But the real relationships that they have are with Jesus Christ (who they perceive as their God the Father). And Jesus Christ’s firstborn will serve as their Savior. Right? But all the honor continues to go to the royal line. We create spirit children - then give them up for adoption? And if that is so, then we might actually not be the spirit children of heavenly father…?

I currently personally am toying with the idea that the children born to us on our Celestialized earth will have Jesus as their Heavenly Father on the earth we created for them with His firstborn son acting as Savior for them.

So what happens to those that obtain exaltation yet were not Saviors. Will they be able to have spirit children? And if so, who will serve as their children’s Savior? For those branches that depart from the Savior lineage, the father - son relationship will no longer hold true. Eventually you will have mortals looking toward a Great Great Spiritual Uncle and dependent upon a firstborn firstborn, firstborn in a galaxy far far away for their salvation?

We agree totally there.

I sure hope that cooler heads prevail.

https://www.cfr.org/article/why-china-would-struggle-invade-taiwan#:~:text=The Taiwan Strait%2C over ninety,and require thousands of ships. https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/why-china-remains-unlikely-invade-taiwan

Okay. China is not my favorite son either. I love their people-my BIL lives there and we’ve hosted four Chinese exchange students-but like all of us here, I dislike their government. I don’t let my dislike of their government delude my views of the current state of world affairs. China is watching the Ukraine and seeing how they (Ukraine) are fighting back. China is taking notes-they don’t want the worldwide condemnation and their own Vietnam. Could an invasion happen? Sure. But it’s not likely.

orly? But, you could also state that a true religion is instituted by God. Whereas a false religion is perpetuated by Satan. There are people out there that can be just as inspired by a false ideology as a false religion that are willing to do stupid things. Emnity exists outside of religion. I was just listening to a Chinese nationalist spokesperson arguing why Taiwan is still part of China. Pretty firm beliefs. He was angry too.

I believe it refers to a lateral relationship – a sealing to each other in conjunction with, a vertical relationship with God*. 3 points: the rib is the only bone that can regenerate (so Adam’s grew back!); its stem cells can be used to create new tissues, organs, etc.; and, the word for “rib” is also the same one that is used for “chamber” (which could refer to the periosteum, a tissue surrounding the bone like a banana peel surrounds the fruit). So, there may be a literal description going on here as well. Adam’s body was made of the dust (element), and Eve’s body was made of a higher order of dust, living dust. The X chromosome has 10 times the genetic material as the Y, so an XX may represent this higher order of dust over the XY. That this was done while Adam was asleep is telling! Meaning that the particulars aren’t important to know right now 😊 * https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/04/34carpenter?lang=eng The “Breath of Life” seems to be more straightforward – it is the power of God to turn the key of life to connect spirit and element by exposing the light of Christ (D&C 88: 6 - 15) to the spirit and element, connecting them. The Hebrew term is nišmat ḥayyîm, which means both the “spirit” and “excitement” or “spark” of "life," which is why I lean toward the interpretation that it is the light of Christ which “quickeneth” and “governeth” all things. ETA: I know this may wax esoteric, but the reason the XX is of a higher order is because the womb is where the covenant is transmitted to children born in the covenant. The female initiatory has wording that indicates the womb is consecrated for this purpose much as a temple is consecrated for the transmission of covenants to the living and the dead.

I don’t really follow sports teams

True, but China isn’t motivated by religion. The 9/11 hijackers were. That’s an absolutely crucial distinction. Sorry.

Yes they are horribly corrupt. Their campaign of misinformation is out of control. They have all kinds of internal problems. And the numbers of military supplies and effect are questionable. But then again, 19 guys with a bunch of box cutter’s perpetuated September 11, 2001.

I believe He was the Savior, and His Father a Savior before that, etc... I believe there is a specific eternal lineage of Saviors.

That, and they aren’t stupid. They know they’d be just about by themselves if they got into a war with us. North Korea doesn’t count, Russia has their own problems. China wants no part of us.

China's military has a badly flawed logistics system, to the point that it is greatly hindering their ability to project their military very far beyond their own borders. Their navy can harass anyone operating within the so-called "Nine-Dashed Line" and a little beyond it, but they'd be pressed to provide proper support for any marines or soldiers they sent to initiate a ground invasion. Even if such an invasion did take place, Chinese soldiers have such terrible supplies - including miserable rations that are of such inconsistent quality food poisoning is a real concern - that the soldiers would be hard pressed to hold whatever land they take. (For those who have access to YouTube, look up Steve 1989 MRE Info and search for his reviews of Chinese military rations. He did, indeed, get food poisoning off of a Chinese ration, a ration that was so terrible chlorophyll was actually leeching off of the vegetables and turning the pork green.) The big issue with China is that they're a nuclear power, and there's reason to believe they might also have biological and chemical agents. This is protecting them and their buddies (like Iran and North Korea) from any sort of direct invasion, but utilizing these weapons against whatever power they are trying to conquer would risk destroying whatever it is they're trying to seize in the first place. This is especially true with Taiwan and its manufacturing sector. As it is, the Federation of American Scientists once estimated that if Japan changed their constitution to allow for the nation to possess nuclear weapons, they could have their first functional device within a calendar year; this led to the FAS declaring Japan to be a de facto nuclear power. A nuclear Japan (which is also well capable of biological and chemical agents) would throw such a wrench in China's plans that China would have to seriously consider its next steps.