funkymonkey

Is it just me?...Or is it a little hard to pay attention when the stake council members talk in sacrament meetings? ...just curious!

A friend's step daughter was visiting for the summer... she freaked because all her daughter brought was jean skirts, so she had her daughter come to my house to find something to wear. This was probably not very nice...I sent her back with more jean skirts. :)

Acutally I guess it wasn't that recent...it was about four years ago.

The stake president didn't want to see anymore jean skirts...said that it wasn't "true Sunday dress"...too casual. I'm "weak"...so I kept wearing mine.

Ours recently talked about wearing jean skirts to chuch.

(this is totally just my own approach) I think there are two ways the world/culture gets us mixed up in this... #1 - Old worldly - Men are superior to women #2 - New worldly (in the last 30 years) - Women are superior to men Once we understand that these ideals are coming from culture and not the Lord, then we can work to dismiss them and seek the truth from the Lord. ...Easier said than done.

Mike, thanks for your kind response. I really do like reading your perspective and can truly see the inner turmoil, as it comes out in your writings. By the context in which you write, it looks like you are continually searching for answers...for peace. Thank you very much for being willing to be so honest. It causes me to think and remember, and also to challenge my own perspectives. Each of us are in a journey to find our own inner peace and happiness. It is so interesting to me how different that is for each of us! A question kinda popped into my head...(and I totally don't have any magical answers, but this is totally just a thought)...Have you thought of having a completely honest discussion with your bishop regarding your frustrations? Or even requested he give you a blessing? I like priesthood blessings. :)

thanks for clarifying guys.

Vort, I am seriously getting confused by all of these statements flying around. Let me get this right... "I'm just saying, women as a group are not strong or righteous enough to hold the Priesthood." Is this truly what you believe? If this is what you believe... I gotta say I completely dissagree. Go to the Lord in honesty and tell him that women are not as strong as men...he'll make it very clear that is not the truth. ----------------------------------------------- I don't know why this has to be a reasoning of who is "stronger" or who is "capable". Those are words used in contexts that the world values, not the Lord. Those words do not describe what the plan of salvation is about. Remove the worldly ideals about what makes up a person and focus on the ways of the Lord. Search in humility and meekness...Dig deeper, it's a completely different perspective that allows the truth to be unveiled. The truth is there, and only He can manifest the truth. I challenge you to get a copy of the book I mentioned. It will lay down the path to allow your eyes to be opened without the worldly confusion.

Hi Otterpop! Your question applies to me...I am one of those that can't have kids...and it bothered me a LOT over the years that women's divine "destiny" was to bear children, and that just isn't an option for me. It took me a long time to understand where I fit in to this equation. I now believe that He has an individual divine plan for every soul that is willing to follow Him. I've listed this book before on this site but I'm going to do it again, sorry! Eve and the Choice Made in Eden by Beverly Campell This book is the only reason I came to honestly understand the sacred roles of men and women. I can't put it into words what I understand now, because it can't be summed up in a sentence or a paragraph; this book explains it best.

Ethnographic Atlas Codebook derived from George P. Murdock’s Ethnographic Atlas, "recorded the marital composition of 1231 societies, from 1960-1980. Of these societies, 186 societies were monogamous. 1041 were polygynous." I like Wykipedia's quick little summary on the world's history of polygamy. It's actually only been in the last 200 years that polygamy became culturally frowned upon.

normal mormon. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I really did appreciate reading them. You are exactly where I was about 3 years ago. Unlike the "spiritual giants" or whatever you would like to call them... I too had a big problem with the women and the priesthood. ...and the polygamy thing.... and Joseph Smith. I also came to the same conclusions you have. I was comfortable with those ideas and I wasn't "struck down" by lightening and the Lord honestly continued to love me and guide me. So over time, as my testimony grew and I gained more and more understanding through the spirit...one by one, I have grown in understanding regarding these issues. Just continue to trust in the Lord and in time and one by one, you too will be "refined" in understanding the ways of the Lord. You are not expected to understand everything at once...don't be afraid to ask questions either. That's part of growing and learning. Hang in there, don't let these offensive comments hurt your testimony or your individual relationship with the Lord...and don't let these comments make you think that you are wrong...you are just in a different place spiritually than they are. All understanding can come in due time...and it sounds like to me that you are well on your way! Many people do not understand just how different we all can come to have a testimony, how it grows, and understanding of the Lord's ways. God Bless. -B

Hi Mike. I've been watching this thread and can totally relate with some of the feelings and frustrations you're having. I have felt like I was left alone and almost abandoned at times when I thought I needed the Lord most. Just this past month I have learned a lot about faith and God's intentions... I remember at the age of 6 going to church with my neighbor and the teacher talking about how to pray. Very shortly after church my parents were fighting...not really yelling but they often would get really violent and when they were done, my dad would come find one of us kids to finish off his aggression. So we would all go to our rooms and lock our doors and hide under our beds and would try not to cry and be just completely silent...to not leave any possibility to drawing unwanted attention. OK OK, so the point I'm getting at is... I remembered that lesson at church and I closed my eyes and folded my little arms trying to be as quiet as possible, and I asked God to please make it stop, to make it ok. Immediately I felt this warmth wrap around me, it felt exactly like warm arms wrapping around me; I experienced a peace that I have never felt, and the noise of my parents screaming and throwing things completely faded to where I couldn't even hear it anymore...and for the first time in my life, I felt completely safe...just wrapped up in that warmth. Now as a grown-up (well, technically anyway ) and being jaded by the complexities of life...I spent many many years just hashing out the "knowledge" stuff and wanting FACTS in the scriptures and actions of church leaders...The spirit was completely silent to me all those years, and looking back I think it's because I was just filled with so much contention and wanting an answer in "my way" (books), and not truly seeking for the "Lord's way". But then I tried a totally new approach and I worked and worked towards trying to listen trough my heart instead of my mind. I removed the complexities and confusion and stopped asking for "proof" and seriously just simplified my spirituality. I eliminated all that confusing crap that doesn't apply to my individual spirituality and got back to the basics; come to him as a little child...and be humble and willing to trust in him, instead of challenge him. Then I went to the Lord in humble prayer, and the spirit came again in strength to say "Here I am." The Lord speaks to us as individuals in matters of the heart, not the mind. Does it come every time I pray? No. What would be the point to life if God just handed everything to us precisely when we wanted it? We wouldn't really learn a thing, other than to be completely weak and dependent. Just like we train our kids, the Lord stands back and lets us struggle because he wants us to grow and be independent and strong. But the spirit most definitely comes when the Lord wants me to learn something...just felt it last night. The rest of the growth is up to me...that's why he gave me the trials I have...to struggle and challenge myself, and grow to have a strength I can't gain any other way. As a kid, growing up is hard to do. But the spirit "growing up" is also hard! I think we're all going to be "saved"...LDS or non. The only difference between LDS and other faiths is that we have been given the unique challenge to individually find and truly understand faith and the influence of the Holy Ghost, in this life. Everyone will be given this challenge, we just happen to have this challenge here on the earth. Nobody said it would be easy. Sorry so long. The approach to finding spirituality is so different for each of us. Hopefully this long post can give you another approach.

If you look at the world religions, 70% of the world believes in the practice of polygamy today...doesn't mean they all do it or think that you're REQUIRED, but they don't believe it is wrong.

Whether there is only one savior or a savior in other worlds... that had to be friggin horrible for God to have to sit there and watch it.

how cool. :)

I really like the idea of other worlds. When I was a kid I would just stare at the stars for hours and it never ceased to amaze me just how big God's paintbrush really is. I have a spinoff irrelevant question/speculation... Is Christ the savior of all worlds? Or just this one? I know it doesn't really matter...it's just one of those silly questions I've always had.

brother01, welcome! I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you. :) I look forward to seeing these discussions crop up on some of the gospel discussion threads! Your questions and ideas all are very well thought out. If you are looking for more dialogue in scriptures and their meanings, I have found that Vaunhin is really good at discussing gospel doctrine through the scriptures.

I'm prettty sure I'm from Mars... or Venus... or Pluto I personally think God made our entire solar system, so the fact that they have water or bacteria...or even if they had little green martians, doesn't bother me a bit. I would hope that God did things to each of these planets to make them interesting and "alive". I have no problem with dinosaurs either.

One thing I love... air conditioning. Ahhhhh. And in the winter I love those cars with heated seats. Ahhhhh.

Over 43. That's such a heartbreaking story. You have a lot more tollerance than I do...I would have tried to pummal him. Your story brings back a lot of memories. What's so frustrating for me is that I "forgive" and move on...and then something like that happens and it's not like it just reminds you of what this person is truly capable of but it feels like all the work to forgive and forget was all for nothing...and for a while...Like I went back in time. I also understand that it's not always just as easy as picking up the phone and calling the cops...afterall it's family. I myself am trying to figure out what true forgiveness means...in very similar circumstances. But thinking of when we are forgiven by our Heavenly Father... (this is just my personal view) Part of the forgiveness process is to committ to never do it again. If we do it again, then we haven't really truly repented and are not entirely worthy of forgiveness yet. But I find it interesting that in my weaknesses, my Heavenly Father is still willing to give me another chance to get it right. I kindof think it's the same when we try to forgive someone else... We need to see that they are ernestly willing to change; We need to see that the sin/habit is finished and that it won't happen again. A few years back I had an abusive relationship (the guy was just like my dad...ahhh, the mistakes we make). Later he did tell me that he was truly sorry for what had happened. But He wanted to continue to see me or even just keep in contact with me. So I quietly moved and completely cut off any contact. (to not only protect myself, but to protect him too... if my brother ever saw him again, he was going to "beat him to death and not think twice about it") Just because I have completely severed all ties from this person and desire never to see them again in this life, does not mean that I haven't forgiven him. It just means that I have the responsibility to myself, and also to the Lord, to learn from this and never allow potential for that happening again. Of course completely cutting off relationships with family members is not exactly the best option. BUT I really don't think God wants us to put ourselves or our children in harms way. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you need to say "it's ok" and then be best friends...it just means that you recognize that the chapter is closed and then the anger in your heart will surprisingly change to love. Until your father is honestly willing to change and seek forgiveness himself, I really don't think you are commanded to forgive. It's so hard with family because you are at the place where you are ready to forgive, but they might not be at the place where they're ready to seek forgiveness. Remember the first step to forgiveness... recognizing that what you are doing is wrong. Hopefully your father feels remorseful and will ernestly strive for change and forgiveness. If not, then he is not ready to be forgiven. I would make it very clear to him that what he did was wrong and it won't be tollerated. And he needs to follow the steps of forgiveness and express remorse to every person offended. Until he can change, his time with the children needs to be completely watched or eliminated. ...of course this is all totally just my opinion and I could be totally wrong. I know how impossible having that conversation/confrontation with your dad might be...just by thinking of my own dad. I really don't enjoy thinking about having that conversation with my own father when I have kids...but hopefully when that times comes I'll have the strength to do it. I guess the best advice would be to ponder up a plan and then take it up to the Lord in prayer... he knows your dad the best, and can help you know if your plan is best for your situation.

Sorry Snow. I meant to say that mnn727 was implying by saying that they use it as an "excuse". As you say, you were just stating what you have seen. ...by the way those examples of generalized statements are just simple stereotypes; stereotyping is a form of ignorance. Think of the Mormon stereotypes you've heard over the years, they're probably not entirely accurate.

I totally agree with McBeastly. Snow, My grandmother was the most righteous living, Christlike person I EVER have personally come in contact with. She never drank or smoked, she took very well care of her family and her health, she had more integrity than most LDS people walking around nowadays. It was plain and simple for her, she found out that blacks couldn't have the priesthood (chuch history). She couldn't find a feasible explaination for this descrimination and left the church. It was NOT "just an excuse". You are implyling that all people that leave the church are weak...and that is just not the case. Many of them are searching for the complete truth...which is the same reason they were open enough to listen to the missionaries in the first place. If they feel like there was information withheld, they're likely to question the integrity of the church or the leaders of the church. It doesn't seem right to act like none of this stuff ever happened, but rather we should learn it and understand it so we can help others understand these things. Doesn't it make sense that God wants to be completely honest with his children? Don't you think new converts and others expect that same honesty from God and his church? I have come to expect this honestly from the Lord, and search for truth in all things...which includes "controversial" church history. ----------------------------------- I find it interesting that on this site there are some (both LDS and non) that tend to fit a whole group of people into these big boxes with general statements. It's kinda like saying "People of Asian desent are smart" or "Arabs are all terrorists". Doesn't make much sense to me.

Hmmm. Lucky rat. I'm sure there were plenty of guys on that research team. To me it would only make sense that we could make the research legal again, provided all the new options. I think there's a lot of potential money for researching this kind of stuff...would help out the little college research groups right now. I really like the nervous system therapies they're working on. I thought they were doing some stuff with people's severed spines in Europe??

Yay! Congrats on your wedding! I (probably like a bunch of other people) had a pretty wierd wedding. Not a thing in it was my first choice...not even the location! I have a very strong-minded mother-in-law and mother. I tried to stand up for what I wanted at my wedding and it just turned into spats with my "moms". But I wondered what was more important...the wedding itself? Or the relationships with my family and family to be? Needless to say I didn't exactly want to deal with having to hear about it for the rest of my life (they both have memories like elephants). So I just let them do whatever they wanted and I actually laughed at a few of the things that ended up in the wedding. And yes alcohol was at the reception. But on the wedding day I could have cared less... all I cared about was that I was there and my husband was there. And yes, it was the best day of my life! So I guess what I'm trying to say is, maybe keeping your relationships with your family should be a priority. I really don't think God would frown in anyway about that. Take a little, give a little. Good luck!