crazypotato

This talk was in reference to women putting off marriage and children for educations, not against women being educated. It was just kind of a common sense type of mention. I can't find it because the talk was not about education, but on a totally different subject. I really wish I could remember. My understanding was he was saying that, let's say a woman is already married with children and no bachelor's degree. She should not be pursuing a bachelor's degree full time, on the event that her husband loses his job, but should instead be tending to her husband and children full time, with educational goals not overbalancing her obligations to her family.

Placing my quotes at the top of your post and then talking about judgemental, self-righteous, gossipy women tends to make me feel singled out. And if you think I read things into posts that are not there, that is fine, that is your opinion. It is a two-way communication and in written form, is the very least effective method of communication.

I am sorry for the loss of your mother.

Tarnished, I really feel like you are judging me. You seem to think that because I have strong opinions of trying to follow the Proclamation, that I am looking down my nose at everyone who doesn't appear to be doing so. It makes me sad that you assume so much about me and I really don't know where you are getting it from. Your infertility for 10 years is really sad, but guess what? I went 8 years of infertility myself and I will never forget that pain in my heart and all the people that assumed I was so into my career that I didn't want kids. When I state my opinion, it is generalizations. Why would you assume that I am then taking my opinions and pointing my finger at other people? Do I need to share more dirt about myself when making my generalizations so that I don't appear self righteous? Because I don't feel that is necessary. BTW, if you ever want to PM me about infertility, I am here for you, but I get the feeling that you would think that I would start preaching to you.

,Ugh. Are you seriously implying that my opinion is fanatical? I assume your little blurb was directed towards me since there is my quote from the top and your assumption that I gossip and judge other ward members is rather judgemental and self-righteous, too, if that is your assumption. Hopefully you are not lumping me in with that group and that I am misinterpreting you.

Peace! Mormons don't believe that we are the only ones going to heaven.

Tarnished, every time this subject gets brought up in Relief Society, it seems that all the women who have to work feel like crap, guilty for working when they shouldn't feel that way, and crying because they feel like they are not doing the best for their kids. We are not talking about those women, married or single, who work to bring in needed money. We are not talking about childless women who work, or single women, etc. We are talking about a general guideline. But also, I think that it is not only to reinforce our belief in heterosexual marriage, but how to make the family unit the strongest. There is council for the family to work together, do wholesome activities together. The emphasis is on what makes a family and how to make it the strongest. The hard reality is that lots of people are unable to live in a happily married home, with a father and mother that love and respect each other, father provides, mom nurtures, etc. This is an ideal that we all hope and strive for and is not possible for everyone all the time.

Dude, you don't have to be a cookie cutter or look like a nerd. I think it is a "young" way of looking at the world to think that no one should judge you on your appearance. Although it is pretty much true that people shouldn't, and that your hairstyle is not a big deal, people still do judge you. I think you should care, personally, because you are a member missionary, and an example to the world.

I never said it was doctrine. It is a rule in my ward, for example, that the deacons have to have short hair and be wearing a white shirt and tie to pass the sacrament - no colored shirts. I agree absolutely with what Dravin is saying. These rules are cultural, and should be followed in order to look respectful in our culture. I think beards are now respectable and goatees are, too, as long as they are clean and trimmed. Longsih hair is okay, but not really, really long hair, because in US culture, that still has negative connotations. Every member is an example to the general population, so whether you are an actually missionary or not, I just think it is a good idea to look at your culture and dress on the more "culturally respectable" looking side. My grandma told me that in St George, Utah, where she lived, the girls there avoided growing their hair really long because they didn't want to be associated with the polygamists. For those unfamiliar with St George, it is in the Southwestern tip of Utah near a lot of Polygamist communities where the women wear pioneer looking clothes, super long hair and no makeup. T

It's not that members are judging each other, it is that everyone in our communities watch Mormons and judge our appearances and our actions. The world is not fair and nonjudgemental. The world makes split second judgments based on our appearances. If our appearance is going to close the door to someone hearing about the gospel, then it is not worth it, is it?

It's a rule at BYU, it is a rule for missionaries, and for many priesthood callings.

Sometimes when the leaders of the church say things that you think are stupid, that is your right, but I have faith that they know more about what they are talking about than I do. Personally, I think women and men should be clean and neat. We are walking advertisements of the church, whether we like it or not. If there are people out there that look at me and I am always wearing t-shirts, jeans, sneakers, and I butch my hair and have no makeup (I am a woman), it is possible for me to look like a lesbian or a slob (sorry, it's true!). Look at how the missionaries are expected to dress. They have to look respectable before a lot of people will bother listening to them. You can't change the world, and people judge by appearances. Also, this rule of short hair is so much easier to follow than like 10,000 of the other commandments.

Melissa, There is the Proclamation and then their is your own family. If you feel that you would be below poverty if you didn't work, then of course you have to be reasonable. And the Proclamation is also not so that we can look down our noses at people that don't "appear" to be following it. Personally, if I were in your situation, I would look at a long term goal of moving to a more affordable area and getting your husband a better education so that he can earn better money. In the meantime you could work, and explain to him that his future children are so precious to you that you desire to be their at-home mom. At the end of your life, you will care more about how well you raised your kids and how they turned out than whether you were poor or not. There are lots of women who if their hubby gets laid off, go to work. Obviously this is out of necessity. But it should be with the mindset of temporary while hubby looks into another job or another field, gets better training or education, etc. The Proclamation is a leap of faith for a lot of people. I think going on one income is scarier for some than others. Kids are so expensive, but it is like tithing. If you are trying to live the Proclamation and don't know how you can live on one income, but really try your best to do so, I believe the Lord makes up for it and blesses you, just like he does with people who pay tithing when they have little money.

Yes, I have heard a lot of converts go inactive after converting. I think that there are a number of reasons why this happens. I can't tell why people leave, but I know in some cultures, they never really converted to get baptized. For example, my dad served a mission among Native Americans on a reservation and said that they would baptize just to be polite to the missionaries and that they believed in lots of different religions at once. They had lots of members on their rolls that never came, but if he asked them to come, they would say yes to coming and yes to doing a calling, just to be polite, and then never do it. I think to become an active member is usually a large lifestyle change for people, too, and maybe they are not ready for it. I really don't think it has anything to do with them not believing anymore, but maybe having to make so many big changes, like having a calling, going home and visiting teaching, paying tithing, giving up drinking, smoking, and coffee, just being immersed almost in a totally different culture than what they are used to?

OH, I forgot about Poltergeist! Even though that seems scarier, the Something Wicked This Way Comes wouldn't scare me now, but I think it is still creepier than Poltergeist. And the movie cover of Children of the Corn scared me so bad that I could never watch it. I hate movies with evil children in them and refuse to watch them.

Watcher in the Woods, and Something Wicked this Way Comes. I was maybe 7 or 6 when I saw those. And yes, I could definitely watch them now without caring. Both by Disney and both creeped me out really bad. Also, King Kong Junior gave me regular nightmares for years. I was about 3 years old when I saw it and doubt anyone could find it anywhere.

What the crap? "Prestigious?" Why would most people want a prestigious calling? A lot of people turn them down. My husband used to be on the ward council and was surprised by the number of callings that people turn down all the time because they are too busy.

I heard diet pop is just as bad if not worse than sugared pop. From my experience, I hate diets so I don't go on them, but I find I feel better if I remember to buy those bags of frozen vegetables, and then eat a huge amount of steamed veggies every day and whole grains. I still eat junk food too, but I eat the good stuff first and I don't feel as tired or hungry. Also, the more I exercise, the more I crave fruits and vegetables. A personal trainer told me to not eat cold cereal and milk for breakfast, but to eat more protein, like yogurt mixed with cereal and fresh fruit. Or in the winter a large bowl of oatmeal. Also snacking is a good thing. I don't avoid fats anymore like I used to. My weight is the best when I am going outside a lot for walks and when I don't have stashes of junk in my house, but have to actually get in the car and go out to get it.

Do we want our glycemic lower? Forgive my ignorance. I know white rice and white breads don't make you feel as full and they don't have as many nutrients, either.

When her husband left her for another woman, was he excommunicated? And if not, or if he is in the church, he can't be sealed to the new wife without a letter of permission from his ex-wife.

There was a talk I just read but I can't find it, about women getting educations in case they need to work. I think it was by President Benson. He said that women should not put their educations before the family for " just in case" situations."

This was all in another thread that I got hammered on. Look at the Proclamation on the Family and abide by it. Don't make excuses. There is nothing wrong with living in a tidy, clean itty bitty house, living on one income. When you get married, it is not about you, as a woman. It is about your family. Your family all works together to follow the prophet. If you husband says, "Go work if it makes you happy." then who do you follow? The Proclamation or your hubby? The Proclamation has nothing to do with the current economy or the times. It doesn't say, "Women should work if they feel like they will go crazy at home, or "If the Mom can earn more money, the Dad should stay at home with the kids, " or "If the Mom is highly educated, she should hire out housekeeping and just spend quality time," or "We are all old-fashioned men, so this proclamation only applies to the 1950s and before, even though we have issued it now," or "We realize that women who don't like cleaning and hate scrapbooking are exceptions to the Proclamation." The Proclamation is to keep us safe from Satan destroying our homes and from "calamities foretold by ancient prophets." It is better to sacrifice for the Lord and be obedient than to leave your family unprotected. Your family is not protected as much as when you are striving to live all the commandments the best you can.

I have been a Gospel Doctrine teacher, a Relief Society teacher, and a Primary teacher. My hardest of the three by far is Primary teacher. Who is to say that a Primary teacher is less important than an adult teacher? Who is to say that the ward librarian is less important than the Elder's Quorum president? I know members of the church that are so purely Christlike, I couldn't even believe how good they are. My next door neighbor, in his 80s now, poor as a churchmouse, is the most charitable, kind person that I have ever met. He has been ward librarian, greeter, primary teacher, and maybe a Sunday School teacher for the kids. He never served a mission in his old age because of health and finances.

Okay, here is my ever-unpopular opinion but I want you to know that I am saying this because I care about you and because I have been EXACTLY where you have. It is very VERY easy to find counselors that will listen to your story and tell you that your husband is abusive and to leave him. A good counselor will try and see what you are doing wrong, too. It does take two to fight. Your husband sounds just like mine. If you push him too far, he gets cold and mean. A good counselor will not jump to the conclusion that you are a weak, poor little thing being abused by a mean man. Sometimes this is the case, but often women are also behaving terribly (WITHOUT REALIZING IT). You mentioned that you nag him. Depending on his personality, this can be extremely damaging to a marriage. I don't know you, but I am just saying that some couples have no idea how to communicate or deal with stress together, so it turns into screaming matches and I bet your fights have built up and built up and built up so now he is throwing out the D word because he has no idea what else to do. And I don't blame him for being leery of counseling. There are lots of bad marriage counselors that automatically blame the man for everything and call him abusive. I am not saying what he did was okay, but if you label him as abusive, you will go into the victim mentality where he is mean and poor you. When you are in that mode, if is difficult to have any hope in your marriage or take any good advice, and I strongly believe that although Satan wants to destroy your family, you need to find out what God wants first. Go to your bishop. BTW, if you have no money for counseling, the bishop can pay LDS services for your fees if you go to him first and he feels that you need them. I think your first stop should be the bishop, and not a counselor.

I don't think that people on LDS.net intentionally bully except for an occasional anti-Mormon that gets banned. But I think it is human nature for friends to have each other's backs and be less accepting and warm towards new people, especially opinionated new people. I really think that most people are more polite in society, but even here are more outspoken than would be in church. The other problem is that written communication is the least effective form - we can't see each others faces or body language, hear each other's voices, we don't know each other. It's like when you yell at other cars on the freeway but if you had to look at the nice little grandma's face while she drives her car down the road, you would change your attitude or at least behavior really fast. So from now on, maybe I should post a picture of my Grandma next to my dumb screenname :)