aj4u

What have I said and then did another thing than what I said? What do you think sincerity is? Who gave you the right to judge me? What has happened that I pretend hasn't? What do you call behavior that fails to back up judgmental statements against another's character? If you cannot back this up you owe an apology! I do not attack the church; I am a child of God; therefore, that makes me a part of His church. :)

I didn't say anything disrespectful. At the time he was 14 years old. Is that not true? If you are insulted, it is because you choose to be. I had already mentioned you can cut down what i believe. As long as there is respect for one another. I have not called you names or judged you as being insincere. have I? I haven't even said anything bad about what you believe. Again, I say if you are really insulted and offended, I apolpogize no offense was intended personally to anyone, but it is your choice to remain in it. I would like you think about this Bible verse. "Great peace have they which love thy law and nothing shall offend them."

That was a sincere post. Thanks you sharing it. I have no doubt you are a Mormon. And I am sure you too will receive the same reward has the prophet Joseph Smith.

To the Christian, Paul is not the most important all of the prophets and apostels are equally important. It is just that Paul addresses things we need to watch out for in the way of false prophets and doctrines of devils that try to make it so that the gospel does us no good. Paul does a good job at this. I trust both Paul a Peter very much. Because Jesus gave them authority that is good till the day Jesus comes back to judge the living and the dead. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Heaven and earth will pass away but His word will never pass away. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom and Paul the gospel anointing for the gentiles. His message is clear to me. In other words, I don't see what neede to be restored.

Your doubting of my sincerity is not my problem; it is yours. I love the Lord and out of respect for Jesus Christ, I will not call anyone a name such as troll or judge anyone. I can even see all on the forum as greater than myself, but I can only live up to the light that God shows me. I don't operate according to your schedule or as fast as you think I should. I have been very patient with you. Your answers to my questions just don't cut it. You think that I am in deception, because I don't agree with your position. I don't agree because you haven't been able to back it up Scripturally and spiritually from the Bible. What is to stop anyone from claiming to be a prophet and lead others astray like happened to me. How do you know you're not being had like I was? What spiritual authority do you have besides the testimony of a 14-year-old boy? There has to be something in the Bible that backs the coming authority. The OT, for example, is replete with verses leading up to the coming of Christ Jesus. What, for instance, leads up to the gospel needing restored? Just because of some translation errors in the KJV of the Bible and different denominations coming out of the Catholic Church. It just doesn’t make sense. Why would anyone ask what organization to join? We shouldn’t be asking the Lord what church, organization, group or denomination to join; we should just join ourselves to Christ, and by doing that, we are automatically a part of His body. He only has one church and one body. I am part of it. I am His child by faith, and there is no devil in hell that can take that away from me. The devil is the accuser of the saints. I know who I am in Christ. Just because you say I am not sincere doesn’t make it so. It doesn’t matter how many say I am insincere. The Lord is the majority. If He doesn’t want me posting on here, He will close the door, because He is the one who is in control. Of course, I say all this by faith and in love. Remember, faithful are the wounds of a friend but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

In the area of foundational truth pertaining to etenal life there are NO contradictions or innaccuracies. Scholars know where the translational errors are, but even those errors do not damage the truth revealed in God's eternal Salvation paln for mankind along with warnings from deviating from God's plan. If you know foundational errors in the Bible please inform of them specifically. God has given me His spirit that leads me into all truth. I also have the gift of discernment. Paul is referrring to the five fold ministry. God has given Apostels first then prophets evangelist teachers and preachers. It wouldn't be just one prophet by many prophets God has given. Even these prophets must conform to what is written in the Bible. there has to be checks and balances even in god's Kigdom. If they don't and give a prophecy that doesn't happen, God tells us not to be afraid of such a prophet. There have been many prophets who gave a word that never happened. That means false prophecy which can only represent a false prophet. I know because I used to follow one. Jesus even told us to beware of false prophets. If we didn't listen to Jesus, guess what? So repeat them. What is the big deal. There is no need for name calling. It is not what Jesus would do nor is it a good testimony. let's call a spade a spade. Okay let's look at some history. Tell me, first if I understand correctly. From what I understand it is LDS belief that Christ preached or allegedly appeared on the American continent after His resurrection and preached to the Nephites. What I would like for you to explain is how he quite naturally used the same language as recorded in the KJV along with its translation errors. Moreover, when Nephi came to the Americas he brought copies of the Hebrew Scriptures, which of course accounts for quotations from the OT. The problem I am having along with the translation errors as I mentioned in detail on the “Faith and works” thread that was closed is the miraculous plates that was inscribed, some how some way in the King James version with translation errors and all without variation approx. 1000 years before the 1611 version of written. Can you help me make sense of that without judging me? Yes, I believe that God is in control. There is nothing written that states that God's plan of salvation needed or will need restored or was incomplete. Just because there are different demoninations does not mean that the Bible was destroyed or needed to be reinterpreted or written. Truth is truth regardless of how ancient it is. Why should the Bible conform to the Book of Mormon when the Bible was written first? These are questions not judgemnets on your believe nor am I cutting down Mormonism. I have questions needing answers that I consider revelant to making informed decisions not just for me but for others as well. This doesn't not present a problem to me. The Apocrypha does not go against the foundational truth of the Bible as a whole nor does it contain God's plan of salvation for the whole world as written in the NT. The "Trinity" is not mentioned in the Bible, but the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are. 1 Jn 5: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. This verse is an interpolation in the King James Version that is not in all major manuscripts of the New Testament, but it appears as a paraphrase in 3Nephi 11: 27, 36. Can you explain that? I don't depend on my pastor or prophets. I do my own study of Scripture. If I make a mistake, it will be mine and not another's. Well, you'll get no arguement from me on this. Lord, I ask sincerley in prayer that you would open my eyes to see where this posts is coming from and where it is going. In Jesus' names I bind Satan's deception from blocking me or anyone from seeing the truth you want us to see. I thank you for dong it Lord. NO, I believe the devils tremble when I come around because of Jesus in me. Oh, brother! They are not feelings. I take this seriously. Yes, I agree. He was not led by apostels but by the Spirit of God. That was not the only reason he warn people about another gospel. But now that you mentioned it according to Jesus' own words His return will be in the clouds with great glory and every eye shall see Him. His comming will accompany a loud noise with every island and mountain being move from its place. The Sun will turn black, the moon to blood and every star will fall from heaven. Even Jesus warns don't fall for it if they say I have come and I am in a secret chamber. Why does the book of Mormon follow the translational errors in the KJV? they can do it the same way I did it. I read and studied it for myself. I was born and raised chatholic and didn't remain one because of my studies. You mean if I don't agree with you, you'll consider me a troll? Of course you have the truth and I don't!

I understand what you’re saying and agree to a great point, however, you do not understand what the Bible is saying. It doesn't preach a unilateral message. It is saying that you are saved by God's grace through your faith. In other words, a person can have and be full of good works in their lives and still be none of Christ's. But it is impossible that a man of faith will not have good works. God's grace is the divine enabling and the unmerited favor with God. If our trust is in the doing for God, then we are falling from God's grace and will be judge on how well we followed the commands, laws and so on. I will not be judge by my works, because I live by faith. It is written, "The just shall live by faith." Do I have good works in my life? Yes, but I don’t put trust in that to get me anywhere with God. It is not what we do for God that counts; it is what He does through us by faith that counts!Ro. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. I do not want to be ingornant of Satan's devices or for Satan to get an advantage over me. Does that make sense to you? 2 Corn. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

This is not a question. If anyone is ignorant of the Satan's devices, he or she is sure to be deceived by it. Do you agree? It is written: 2Corn. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. One of Satan's traps is to get people to think that the Bible is not reliable and another is to have people believe that they have to earn or merit their own salvation. There is a righteousness that comes from man and one that comes from God. It is written that "My people says the Lord perish for lack of knoweledge." Ro. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. I will submit to the authority of the Bible, and I will learn from whatever clarifies and confirms what is written. If, however, something clashes with it, red flags go up for me and don't you think it should? That was a question:D

This I think is one of the clashes. According to the Bible it is faith that qualifies us for the grace not works Ep 2: 8,9. This is what Paul explicitly states. What you mentioned is putting the cart before the horse. Paul opposes this very strongly. This is not my interpretation; this is exactly what Paul was saying. To trust in the works as the qualifier, is to fall from God's grace. What I am hearing from you is your trust is in modern day revelation over the Bible. The Bible, however, is all we have to judge whether something is from God or not. If we say the Bible is not accurate and not inspired of God there remains no yard stick for measurement and all safety is taken from us.

I have not gone to an anti-Mormon site. This is the second time I have told you this!

Lord Jesus I pray that you would open both of our eyes to see you and what you are doing here. In fact, I ask it of all viewing this thread. My understanding is limited, but yours is not. I am weak but you are strong. I pray that you have you way on this thread and in my life in Jesus' name. Satan the Lord rebuke you from blocking and twisting truth. You will not be able to hinder any from seeing the truth of what Jesus doing here and from others seeing in Jesus name. I pray Lord for a clean heart and a right spirit in the percious name of Jesus Christ my Lord.

I always pray thy will be done. That is the way Jesus prayed. What makes you think that pride is involved on my part? Let me ask you a question. Did you know the Bible says do not believe every spirit but to try them? I am being obedient to Scriptures. If Mormonism is truth, I will find it by trying it through the fire of God's already written word. The written word of God in the Bible is a sharp double-edged sword; it is a discerner of the thought and intents of the heart. I am told that LDS doctrine does not clash with the Bible, and I am told does. So far those who profess to follow LDS doctrine do not seem to agree on this particular question. That makes me think that there is either insincerity or deception or both somewhere. It is not pride on my part. I submit to you that you lack discernment if that is what you see. I am captive to the word of God. It is neither right nor safe for me to pray against my conscious eternal witness. I can only live up the truth that God has given me thus far. I have not cut you down or judged you so why do you do that to me? Is that what Jesus would do?

My question is does LDS doctrine clash with this Bible truth I have mentioned? I will have to let Mormons answer this question?

Diversity is a good thing. As I do a study of Mormonism, I have come to learn there are different sects within the same religion as well. I was born and raised Catholic and now I am part of the body of Christ in general. I don't go much for demoninational tags. Those that wear them can, but I believe if they go to heaven it will fall off and in hell they will burn off. I don't find diverstity in the essential doctrines of Christianity (in main stream Christianity) but I see liberty in the non-essentials. Any modern day prophet is subject to the already written word. That is why Paul mentions not once but twice in the same paragraph Gal 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemnedWhat gospel is Paul referring to? It is a simply message that we are saved (eternal life) by grace through faith. It is a gift; it is not something we can work for, earn merit by good works or following commands or any laws. Ep 2:8.9. If we attempt to earn or work for our salvation, we will be judged by how well we have kept all the law. If we break just one command we are just as bad off as if we done it all. That is why Paul said I will hear nothing among you save Jesus Christ crucified Ro. 10: 9,10 "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. If we could be saved or gain eternal life by our works we could glory in it and bragg. It is not possible to keep the law in our strength. If we put our faith in baptism and tithings and many other such works, we will be going about to establish a righteousness of our own. This is exactly what Paul was so opposed to. This is not a matter of private interpretaton. This is explicitly what Paul taught by revelation of Jesus Christ and cannot be change by anyone. In fact, Paul said let that person who tells you differently than this be condemned. He said it twice let them be accursed. This is what the gospel is. Baptism is a command that means nothing if we are not born again. It is a marriage to where we are hid in Christ trust in His mercy not in a ritual. Many that are baptised are going to hell because they went down dry sinners and came up wet ones. there has been no change God's grace and our faith has got to be first and foremost. It is Christ who finishes the work He started in us. The battle is the Lord's. He is the good news. We can only work out our salvation if we have received the gift by faith to work out, but it is Him working through us. The labourors labor in vain if the Lord is not building the house.

Most tell me it does not, but some say it does or it may. So I did my own research on the topic that has led to many questions that no one has been able to answer for me. Instead, I have seen a thread closed, and I have been accused of being a troll, hardening my heart, being insincere, of not interpreting Scripture correctly and you name it. I don't have a problem with new truth or restored truth, but it has to pass certain criteria; for instance, if anything clashes with he Bible, that sends up a red flag for me, but if I can see that it clarifies and confirms or reinforces Bible truth i am for it 100%. No one should be able to judge someone about his or her motive. Paul was dead set against Christianity until the Lord dealt with him and he became one of the best apologists in the Bible. I have spoken to Mormons on a one to one and they haven't been able to answer it my questions. Some questions for starters: I know some things, but then I find out that I misunderstand a lot of what Mormons believe. I am trying to learn what it is they actually believe about the Bible and why they feel it was restored. What happened to the Bible that it needed restored? I never heard of such a thing. I have a book of Mormon, and I have read some of it. I was told to pray sincerely about whether it be true or not, but for me to pray and ask God whether these things be so is a tall order for me because I wouldn't know how to do it sincerely, sincerely speaking. For example, I am already a born-again Christian. Why would I want to trade the eternal security or life I already have for a religion that says I cannot know if I have it right now. It would be like a Muslim telling me to pray and ask God if Muhammad is His prophet or the Koran is God's accurate word for today, but I would have to do it sincerely. If I could do it sincerely, than I am sure I will get a sign that Muhammad is god's prophet, but which god? Do you understand where I am coming from? Could you pray a prayer like that sincerely? I cannot be ignorant of the Devil's devices he can appear as an angel of light and impersonate Jesus and or God without any problems to fool the human mind with all kinds of feelings and signs. We are dealing with supernatural forces. Do you realize or believe that too? Paul even warns that we should beware and consider accursed any that bring another gospel than that which we have heard already. Gal 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Are you telling me to ignore Paul's words of wisdom because of the testimony of a 14 year old boy? I am sincere, and I think these questions are valid and constructive and need to be answered in order for me to make an informed decision that concerns my eternal soul! I wish you the best, but I would like these answered. PS. Do you believe the KJV is translated correctly? If not, do you know where there might be translation errors in that version? Take you time and answer them one at a time, but I have other questions, but this is a good place to start. Thanks, Aj4u

This is the best thing I have heard. Can you teach me how to start a new thread? In the mean time I'll be looking. Thanks so much for your help.:)

Let me stop posting on this thread. If you think it will close and hijacking is going on, Maybe you can PM and tell me where I said it said that in the book of Mormon God was a man and we can be a God. I can prove, however, it is LDS doctrine so I don't know why the attempted denial on your part. I am done of this thread, but as usual my questions haven't been even slightly answered.

This is a tough thing to ask. I have a book of Mormon, and I have read some of it, but for me to pray and ask God whether these things be so is a tall order for me because I wouldn't know how to do it sincerely sincerely speaking. For example, I am already a born-again Christian. Why would I want to trade the eternal security I already have for a religion that says I cannot know if I have it right now. 1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. It would be like a Muslim telling me to pray and ask God if Muhammad is His prophet, but I would have to do it sincerely. If I could do it sincerely, than I am sure I will get a sign that Muhammad is God's prophet, but which god is he a prophet for? Do you understand where I am coming from? I cannot be ingorant of the Devil's devices. He can appear as an angel of light and impersonate Jesus and or God without any problems to fool the human mind with all kinds of feelings and signs. We are dealing with supernatural forces. Didn't you realize that? Paul even warns that we should beware and consider accursed any that bring another gospel than that which we have heard already. Gal 1:8 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Do you have a book titled Another Gospel of Jesus Christ? Are you too going to tell me I have an interpretation problem again or are you going to tell me to ignore Paul's words of wisdom because of the testimony of a 14 year old boy? I am sincere, and I think these questions are valid and constructive and need to be answered in order for me to make an informed decision that concerns my eternal soul! I wish you the best, and I am trying to look at this sincerely and objectively Aj4u

I have understood that and still understand it. the difference between us is I use the Bible to interpret LDS doctrine not just the book of Mormon. But you use LDS doctrine to interpret the Bible. The clashing I showed is not a matter of my interpretation. The Bible is self explanatory in many areas that have no need of interpretation. You have been very clear about you stance, but you have been ambiguious as well. For example, with our discussion on faith and works. You said you accept what I say and let's not beat a dead horse. Does that mean you accept what I said is true or you're just amusing me? I understand it is an LDS forum, but you should be able to tell me how you don't see that Is. 43: 10 doesn't clash with "As man is, God once was; as god is, man may become" "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. There is nothing to interpret from the Bible in this; it is explicitly stated by God himself. Please don't use my interpretation as an excuse to disregard my observation of what is clearly stated. I would like to understand why this doesn't concern you. Maybe you didn't realize or know about this verse in the Bible, but now that you do, what sayest thou?

this is really something. Both Ogre and Justice are making different inferences from what I wrote. Justice says my statement is arguementative and Ogre says it is absoultely correct. Justice says we cannot have a constructive discussion about Christ Jesus. I say we can, if we can find out who He Jesus really is. I can receive modern day truth about Scripture as long as it doesn't clash with Scripture. I was told by Mormons that LDS doctrine doesn't clash with Scripture then I am told by others it may or it does at times. Are there any absolutes in what you believe in? I am really am confused. I am trying to obey Scripture that says don't believe very spirit but try them. When i try them you judge me for it telling me that I arguementative. I am surprised that you wouldn't like answers to the questions I have just for yourself.

Nor can He be held to hold what we believe He said if He really didn't say it. Moreover, God is also not subject to our inferences of the Scriptures.

Cool

Our seating arrangement shouldn't be what we concern ourselves with, but we should rejoice that our names are written in heaven. Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.If our names are not written in heaven, we will spend an eternity without the Lord. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. He is looking to destroy steal and kill. If he can get people thinking that they have to earn God's gift of eternal life instead of simply accept it as a child, we will be standing before the Lord speechless and ashamed to find our names were never written down in the Lamb's book of life.

According to the Bible there are only two places to be concerned with as Paul stated in 2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. We are either going to spend eternity with the Lord or be cast into outter darkness. In other words, It is either heaven, the joy of the Lord, the kingdom of God, the heavenly city with many manisons or hell, fire and brimstone, Christless eternity, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.A place for the righteous and a place for the wicked. There may be degrees of suffering in hell forever and there will be rewards in heaven. Some will have more rewards than others, but we either go to one of two places according to Scriptures in the Holy Bible heaven or hell.

I am posting here because the other thread was closed. Maybe, I should should not post for a while since negative feedback is comming to me, but i will continue researching the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the D&C. I didn't even know what D&C was until after being on this forum. In the mean time, I would appreciate any comments that would help me make sense of what I stated already from the other thread in research even if it is by PM. In the mean time, I wish you the very best. I'll be back! I just want to get all my ducks in a row and understand what it is you believe because I am not sure.