MsQwerty

Oh please don't tell me what is important as far as social issues go. How dare you make assumptions about what causes I may or may not be involved in - you have absolutely NO idea. Believe me I am not uneducated in matters of animal welfare in spite of your effort to paint me that way. Your patronising comments are only aimed at furthering your assumption that the abuse of a the aforementioned kangaroo in captivity is harmless. You are entitled to your opinion on the matter of the kangaroo - however you are NOT entitled to make assumptions about my understanding or involvement in issues affecting our society and environment. If you want to play that silly game, then let's just drag in every conceivable cause in the world today and up the ante with each post. I could tell you to stop carrying on about brainless chickens you are anthropomorphising as having 'neuroses' - I mean honestly, are you a chicken psychologist? And isn't that very concept, by your own admission, an oxymoron? If your chickens are allowed to be 'neurotic' then the kangaroo can be categorised as being 'upset' at being 'harassed'. And using your pseudo-understanding of logic, I could also suggest you stop worrying about dumb animals who don't have feelings, when there are child soldiers in Sierra Leone and starving children and AIDS orphans in Africa and Haiti, oh, and sweatshops in India and Asia... Can I make a suggestion that you get on board with Operation Uganda and help women in village communities become self-sufficient by importing and selling their paper-bead jewellery and other ornaments? Am I to assume that because you haven't mentioned these or any number of other social causes, that you just don't care about them? That is what you have tried to imply about me. Just because a person is concerned about one issue does not make them some kind of uninformed nitwit on other causes - get the idea? So let's not play animal-cause ping-pong - when the fact is that we all do what good we can within our own sphere of influence. If I believe an animal is being mistreated, I will make my views known and do what I can to alter the outcome. That doesn't mean I don't care about battery hens, the abuses of factory farms, scientific experiments on beagles or the mistreatment of circus animals. What it does mean is that in this case, I see a 'trainer' who has already been investigated for animal cruelty and the deaths of two kangaroos in his care, mistreating another animal he owns. Commenting on one issue does not make a person blind to all others - it just means that is the issue I choose to discuss in this instance. Whether you like it or not - I have my opinion on the matter. Take it or leave it - I care not. You don't believe the kangaroo was mistreated - that's fine even though I disagree. Just don't make assumptions about the kind of person I am or my level of social awareness - you are in no position to know those things.

People should stop telling rape victims what is right or wrong in their situation - it is entirely their own decision and has nothing to do with anyone else. We talk about the sanctity of life - what about the life of a suicidal woman/girl who has been raped? Do we take an already violated human being and heap additional trauma on her? If you are not the rape victim, then stay away unless you can offer support for whatever SHE chooses for her situation. I cannot believe how judgemental people can be. It's truly sickening.

Good grief. According to Beck then, the entire Anglican church should be shut down. The man is a repugnant nutcase. I'm waiting for him to defect from the church.

Or, it might just make a point to Kraft that consumers don't wish to support a multi-national corporation that behaves in an unethical fashion. They won't lay anyone off, they'll simply modify their stance to avoid losing customers - as has been proven in the situation we're discussing in this thread.

This trainer has been investigated for animal cruelty to kangaroos prior to being in the spotlight this time. Kangaroos have to be pretty upset to turn on a human - you can bet your Vegemite this guy has done something to make the animal aggravated enough to attack in any way. Go to any animal farm, sanctuary or zoo in Australia where families and children are free to wander around petting the kangaroos in enclosures - there is rarely any danger even when the animal has been touched all day by humans. As a matter of fact they will move away from you when they've had enough of being petted by adoring children and tourists. But hey, if you prefer to believe they make unprovoked attacks on people as this 'clown' is trying to convince you, go right ahead.

The perspective here is that the same person antagonising the kangaroo for entertainment, is the same one who couldn't even be bothered providing necessary, lifesaving veterinary care for other 'Roos in his care. This kangaroo may very well meet the same fate. There's no point discussing the mistreatment of a kangaroo with anyone who clearly considers its life and dignity to be worthless. Apparently it's all good for a joke though. Carry on.

You can do whatever you want to support the status-quo in the US of A. In Australia I'll be buying Dick Smith products for the opposite reason.

Haw-haw. You are a hoot. It's also worth mentioning that the idiot who put on the 'show' for Kraft was investigated for animal cruelty after two other kangaroos in his possession died of a treatable disease he didn't bother to take care of. Animal cruelty is ever so amusing and trivial - tee-hee.

Animal behaviour in a natural setting is a tad different to having someone aggravate a kangaroo deliberately in the hope of creating an aggressive spectacle.

The whole porn addiction thing is utterly depressing. I read a study recently that found 7 out of 10 men regularly view pornography, as do 3 out of 10 women. When you look around the various lds discussion forums on the 'net, one of the most common 'problems' that many men seem to post about is their addiction to pornography. I can totally see why an lds woman looking for love would wonder how on earth she can decipher if her potential mate is one who struggles with this issue. Good luck, hope you've found a good, worthy man who honours his priesthood in every way!

For what it's worth, my bishop and his family bought a house outside of the ward boundary. That meant he was released less than two years after he received the calling. I'm not saying this is the reason they moved, but I do know his wife well and she found it terribly stressful dealing with a large family of young children and coping many nights and days alone with them. He's a wonderful faithful, compassionate man, and he always puts his family first. They're happy in their new ward. He's glad to have a calling in Primary

This and another post I just read on bullying at church just gets me so annoyed. I'm completely OVER the way we are told to 'forgive' and look at what we ourselves are doing, even when we are being abused and maligned at church. I went through a similar situation once, and instead of taking the offenders to task, I simply prayed and asked Heavenly Father to soften their hearts. It didn't happen. I rationalized that this small group of women's hatred for me was something I was meant to endure and learn from. I was systematically run out of the branch I'd attended for ten years, my character was maligned, and lies were told that shocked me. What hurt the most was that none of the 'friends' I'd had at church came to my defense - not one, nor did any of the leaders. If I had my time over, I would most definitely confront those people involved and not allow myself to be trodden over like some pathetic doormat. Long term - it had devastating effects on my emotional and spiritual well-being. Even now, fifteen years later, it has the power to bring tears to my eyes. And anger too, I am angry for not valuing myself enough to take it further. So my advice to you, is that if your bishop is not sympathetic, see your Stake President - get it resolved. People in the church simply cannot be allowed to hide behind the power of their callings. Of course in any conflict situation we need to do some serious reflection and introspection to see what we may have contributed, but sometimes it really isn't anything we've done. There are mean, nasty, vindictive people in the church as well as out of it - and nothing we can do can change it. Matter of fact, I found that the nicer and more understanding I was, the worse I was treated. Do take care of yourself - get this resolved in as speedy a manner as possible, otherwise it may chip away at your emotions, your spirit and ultimately your faith. I had two situations in the same branch. The first was the bullying and abuse I suffered at the hands of a small group of nasty, gossipy women. The second was when I was assaulted by a man I'd been dating. I was covered in bruises on every part of my body except for my face - when I went to see the branch president, his only comment was 'he didn't do too much harm, you don't have any marks on you'. At that point I lifted up parts of my dress, as modestly as possible, to show him what kind of 'harm' I'd suffered. Next thing I got a call from the district president to tell me that because my assaulter was a newly baptized member, we should be careful how we dealt with the situation because if I went to the police he might go to prison, and then we might lose him as a member of the church forever. He said he was keeping an 'eternal perspective' on the situation. I went to the police who told me to press charges, but after going home and praying about it, I decided the right thing to do would be to heed my church leaders' counsel. This man got off scott free for something he should have gone to jail for, and of course he never showed his face at church again because he was a lousy coward. The effect of those two situations spiralled me into a deep depression for years after the attack, and I was left with feelings of worthlessness, of being unloved and unwanted in my own church. I went inactive for over a decade and still haven't found my way back fully because every time I set foot in a chapel all those negative and hurtful feelings come rushing back. Church is not a place of peace and respite for me, even if it's not purposeful, I feel shunned and it can all be traced back to when church leaders simply did not do the right thing in protecting and defending me at a time in my life when it was needed. Those experiences were devastating to my spiritual pysch, and the effects linger even today. There was even a brief period where I thought it might just be easier to commit suicide to be free of the pain. Don't let anything like that happen to you. I was as strong in the gospel as anyone you'd ever meet at church, and yet I was almost destroyed by what happened. See the Stake President, heck, take it to the mission president if no-one is prepared to help you resolve the situation. Sorry to be such a downer, but every time I read something like this I just wish I'd had the wisdom not to take the 'pray and love them anyway' approach to bullies and liars.

Pardon me for dropping into the conversation here, but I just had a thought. The baby is due in April, which means she has been pregnant for at least five months. If I read you right, you only met this woman recently. Therefore she would have known for sure that she was pregnant when she met you - and outrightly lied to you by saying she was a virgin. You then said you were 'sure' she was a virgin too, which means she must have put on a real inexperienced act for you at the time you had sex. Now she's telling you that she thought about abortion when she 'found out' it wasn't yours? That is for sure another lie, because she would have already known she was pregnant to another man before she met you. Where is the man who got her pregnant? Has she told you who he is? Has he abandoned her because she is pregnant? Or is he around somewhere? Does he want to know his child? Does he even know he has a child on the way? I'm sorry, but it really does sound like she's still not being honest with you, even in your recent tear-filled conversation where she said she 'found out' it wasn't yours, when she's known it was someone else's since before she met you. This poor woman is doing what she can to survive, I can understand that from her perspective. You have been very forgiving, and because you feel as though you had a genuinely loving connection with her, I can understand your attachment to her in spite of the dishonesty. But it really does sound like two people with desperate needs have randomly collided, her need is for someone to take care of her and her baby, and your need is for love. But it sounds like neither of you are equipped to fill the void you both have in your lives. Have you asked her how she got to live in Paris? Does she have a visa to show you as proof of what she's saying? That would be pretty easy to verify, she'd just have to open her purse and show it to you. You'd immediately see if it's a work, study, tourist or possibly even a spouse visa - ask her and see what she says. If it's all in french and you don't understand it, get someone you know to interpret it for you. Her dishonesty thus far will only bring both of you heartache unless she can come completely clean and tell you the entire truth about how she got pregnant and why she lied to you about the baby being yours. If she does that much, then just maybe you two can start with a clean slate - otherwise your relationship will be founded on lies and manipulation and it's only a matter of time before your sadness turns to bitterness towards her. I was also thinking that if she is 34, there is also a possibility she might have been married before, that's something else you should probably ask her about. Another poster made a wise suggestion that you get a medical checkup - some sexually transmitted diseases have no symptoms until much later. Don't forget that HIV is still rampant in the world. Most importantly, your spiritual health should come first. Your bishop will know how to guide you through this time of turmoil, please listen to him. Wishing you luck.

Something that has really been disturbing me lately are the stories on the news about Susan Powell going missing and the terrible murder/suicide of a family of four in SLC recently. The media of course, keep harking back to Scott Peterson and Mark Hacking and the parallels between each of these situations. What keeps haunting me is that each of these men began their path to murder with deceit(with the exception of Josh Powell, who at this point has not been found guilty of a crime). They lied and manipulated their way through their marriages, with good women at their side who 'forgave' and gave them opportunities to change. In each case, the woman was talented, beautiful, intelligent, strong, a wonderful mother, and most often these women were the main breadwinners for the families while their spouses worked part-time if at all. So women stay in these relationships based on deceit because they want their marriages to work, and if they are LDS, they are motivated by their temple covenants and advice from well-meaning bishops or other church leaders. Meanwhile, the years march on, and the spouse falls back into destructive and dishonest patterns of behaviour and communication. Children arrive, and this is even more motivation for the woman to try and keep her family together. In Susan Powell's case, it was reported in both the Deseret News and the Salt Lake Tribune that she'd prayed about her marriage and decided that she was meant to stay with her husband. If the woman finally decides she's had enough, she too often ends up dead or injured. The recent news stories are absolutely frightening cautionary tales for any woman who wants to get out of an abusive or unhappy marriage. Too many precious women and children are being destroyed at the hands of their controlling, emotionally stunted and abusive husbands. It's nigh on impossible to predict the behaviour and thoughts of a deceptive spouse. If there is any suggestion that the husband is manipulative and controlling, then a woman needs to make her plans without telling him, and leave in the safest manner possible, ensuring she has custody of her children first. I'm not saying this is Skadooshness's situation, but how long is any woman expected to stay with an irresponsible, dishonest, unfaithful jerk because she needs to 'forgive' him? Whatever you do Ska, please keep yourself safe if you plan to get out of your current marriage. Don't tell him what you are planning to do until you have everything in place for when you leave - have people around to support you, mostly for emotional support but also as a safety precaution. And of course, pray for guidance in whatever you do, being sure to shut out the 'shoulds' in your mind that may be drowning out the true whisperings of the Holy Ghost.

Been there, done that. You don't have much hope of working or becoming a permanent resident unless you are in a highly specialized field of employment, or you have an American fiance who can show he is capable of supporting you financially. I moved to the US on a fiance visa and stayed four years. It took almost that long to get my permanent residency (Green Card), by which time I'd decided it was too crazy to live under GWB and we decided to pack our bags and head back to Australia. While I had many good experiences in the US, I've never looked back and probably will never go back except for a visit to see friends. I had to marry my husband within a fairly short time of being in the US before my fiance visa expired, then came the endless reams of paperwork that had to be filed every few months. I was fortunate in being able to work as a highschool teacher while I was there, but did find I had to dramatically modify my accent because the kids found it difficult to understand my pronunciation of certain words. Mostly, they just thought I was hilarious ;o) Something you may not realize is that living in the US means you will need health insurance, usually subsidised by your employer. If you don't have this, it will cost you upwards of a hundred dollars just to see a GP. Need antibiotics for that pesky chest infection? Be prepared to shell out another $70 at least without insurance. Unlike many other countries, the US doesn't have free public health and if you aren't a citizen - then you are entitled to nothing in the way of benefits. When our health insurance ran out with a gap of a few months before we left the country, I had several doctors tell me they would no longer treat me - all said with a friendly smile and a wave out the door. The suggestion someone else made about becoming a Nanny is a good one, but you'd probably need to go through an agency and have completed some kind of course first. The Summer camp counsellor jobs are only for a couple of months and other girls I know who have done it said they were pretty much trapped in one area taking care of kids, apart from the last two weeks of their visa when they were free to go sight-seeing before returning home. Not really a good way to see what the country has to offer you in the way of work, social networks and so on from what I have heard.

Call the police. There are most likely laws against making noise that disturbs the peace of neighbours in your area.

You don't have to have 'proof' that your opinion is 'valid'? What an odd thing to say. As a matter of fact I barely got started. In my many years of church membership, I could tell you dozens of similar stories, but I chose not to. What you got was barely the tip of the iceberg. No wonder abuse (either physical, mental or spiritual) is still a dirty word in our church, if those who dare to complain have suspicion automatically fall on them or they have people trying to dominate them into silence. Anyone who has spent any time fully involved in the church knows that bishops are NOT infallible, nor are they unccountable for how they treat the people under their stewardship. And FYI, if I choose to share any of my own experiences - I will. Each one of those instances I mentioned cause me much heartbreak and spiritual distress - yet I only reported one because of the exact attitude you have displayed - "let's just all shut up and pretend it didn't happen". And seriously, who are you to tell me what I can and cannot share about my experiences? If I came here and posted about the bishop who tried to start a relationship with me right under his wife's nose and asked for advice, what would you say? Based on your opinion thus far my "proof" shouldn't be shared since it was probably me who was the guilty one who tempted the poor man and we shouldn't talk about such things. Sheesh. The point is, if someone feels uncomfortable or that inappropriate conversation is going on with the bishop, then they should be able to get some supportive feedback without their own morality being questioned or being told not to talk openly about such things.

I'm glad there are differing views in response to this thread. It's always been my understanding that bishops are not supposed to ask for sexual details during an interview. Anything outside of 'are you living the law of chastity?' is simply intrusive. As a matter of fact I've been through many such interviews and never once had a bishop ask for any details concerning my sexual behaviour. If it were me I'd simply tell the bishop I understand the Law of Chastity and that his asking for details makes me feel uncomfortable not because of any wrong-doing on my part, but because I feel the questioning is inappropriate and intrusive. If he continues, I would most definitely complain to my stake president. The majority of bishops are good, sensible, honorable men. My current bishop is one of the most amazing people I have ever had the honor to know. But there are always the few who have a creepy side - don't even get me started. I know one who had a restraining order put out against him by a girl in a supermarket he became obsessed with and began writing love letters to. Another approached me in the ward library with the door closed, to tell me that he understood what it was like to be in love with more than one person at a time - and proceeded to tell me he loved me and wanted to have a relationship with me. Another I know was bishop and then stake president for over a decade - all the while he was beating up his stepsons, treating his wife like dirt and keeping his entire family living in poverty while he earned good money and spent it on buying cars and motorbikes for himself. I also know of one who made advances at a teenage boy who was boarding in his home. And none of this is hearsay or gossip - I've been involved either personally or closely with the families of these bishops in each instance. I'm completely over thinking my bishops can say and do whatever they want without question - they can't. I will sustain and support them in their leadership in any way I can, but if they cross any boundaries like asking for sexual details - I will let them know and take it further if necessary. This sort of thing should not be protected or excused or kept behind closed doors.

I liked how Sister Dibb talked about holding on to the essentials of the gospel to get us through the difficulties of life. It's a much repeated theme in conference talks, and one I certainly need to be reminded of from time to time. She is lovely!

That's a high proportion out of the current 150 death toll... Samoan and Tongan members will have some sad news this time tomorrow, too. Another quake has just hit Indonesia, with thousands reportedly trapped under rubble. Makes me feel somewhat nervous living right in the middle of the Asia-Pacific area at the moment.

Here is a picture of Samantha Geimer when she was 13 - not that it should make any difference, but she did indeed look her age at the time. EXCLUSIVE: POLANSKI RAPED ME WHEN I WAS 13 .. HE IS A CREEP - mirror.co.uk

You can read the court transcript on thesmokinggun.com (use their search feature). There's no doubt this man was practiced at getting girls and women drunk, drugged and then doing what he wanted when they were too disoriented or frightened to stop him. I believe I've read of him having relationships with other, very young girls, too, but haven't had the time or the stomach to do any more research on him. He's a vile excuse for a man.

I'm not at all suprised by some of the names backing Polanski ~ people who have no moral boundaries when it comes to their sexual behaviour would have no problem with his actions. Woody Allen, for starters, having an affair and then marrying a girl who had been raised in his family since she was 7 or 8 years old, all the while justifying it because he didn't feel 'fatherly' towards his kids anyway. I'm so over these "Hollywood elite" types thinking they are above the law or that they can bully people into submission with their stupid petitions. Remember the petitions against LDS directors and artists who were sacked because of Prop 8? (Sorry is that getting too political?) Thankfully, what I'm reading today indicates a backlash against those who want to see Polanski elude justice in the US. In France, Poland and the US there is a public outcry against his actions and many Hollywood artists are refusing to sign the petition of support for him. There is an article published in 2005 where Polanski's rape victim says he's a 'disgusting creep' and yet today she's saying she 'forgives' him and has moved on from what happened. I know it's been four years since she made those statements, but I don't quite understand how she's made the shift from openly slamming to sympathising with him in some ways. She doesn't wish to be labelled as a 'victim' anymore and that's fair enough - but that doesnt' mean he shouldn't face justice for fleeing the country to elude jail time. His arrest is interesting to me, it means that for 30 years since his crime, someone has been watching and waiting for the right time and place to catch him so he can be extradited. Impressive, really.

Lucky Emma. Do you know of any instances where men were disciplined for marrying women without the first wife's consent? Or where she was pretty much bullied into accepting the extra wife or wives? And did number one and two then get to agree on number three, and so on? Or did it always come down to number one wife playing the role of Sarah for each additional wife? That's something I have not yet looked into... For a while there I thought she might not have existed at all, that she was simply a plant by the police. What on earth possessed a woman like her to make that call? Was she put up to it? Was she paid? It doesn't make sense to me that she would randomly make allegations of the kind she did. Are those FLDS simply protecting their community by contradicting her? Agreed about the tone of her book, and the generalisations, but I put down her ego-centrism to someone who is simply a bit emotionally stunted as a result of living such an insular lifestyle her entire life. She's a work in progress, and when I read her book she reminded me in many ways of an adolescent girl who is still maturing and understanding how the big, bad world works. I cut her a lot of slack as a result... I'd like to read those transcripts too. Brent Jeffs is still quite young, in his mid-20's and despite having a professional writer help him express his story, he also comes across as fairly juvenile. He sounds like he was an absolute nightmare of a kid, and the book has quite a few comments like "I was popular", "I was strong", "I could have had any girl I wanted" and when he had the discussions with the LDS missionaries (while dating an LDS girl) he noted how impressed they were with his scriptural knowledge "I could have converted them to the FLDS if I wanted to". So if you found Carolyn's book hard to take, Brent's will probably bother you too. He does however, refer to court hearings where he and his brothers testified of being raped at young ages by Warren Jeffs. There are some contradictions in the book where Brent claims that he was terrified to be in Warren Jeff's presence, but then he boldly shakes Jeff's hand and stares him down at one point. It seems to me that his memories are somewhat confused, but there is no doubt the boy was traumatised by his experiences in the FLDS. Warren Jeffs routinely 'reassigned' wives and families of men who had been excommunicated or otherwise disciplined by the FLDS church - this meant the husbands were banished and their entire families given to another man. It's chilling stuff to read. The book states that Brent and the group of 'lost boys' who are suing the FLDS, all made the choice not to take individual payments if their suit is successful. Each claimed that this would only hurt their remaining families in the community. They did accept a few acres each of land that belonged to the FLDS, and I'm not sure if any cash was awarded to them individually. The 'lost boys' stipulated that FLDS money remain in the community under the control of a trustee appointed by the State. This apparently was effective in removing financial control from Warrent Jeffs, who until recently had the power to take people's homes off them if they disobeyed him as a prophet. Additionally, $250,000+ of the money was awarded to organizations that help other 'lost boys' and those who are trying to escape the FLDS. Has that changed and now Brent is suing for a payment of cash to him personally? I'm not sure which version I read, it was paperback and the cover looked very 1960's to me so it might have been one of the embellished versions you mention. I've loaned it to a friend so can't look at it right now to find out when it was printed. Oh I agree with you to a large extent. I work with someone who claims to be ex-LDS and the rubbish she claims we believe in is very frustrating. But there are enough ex-FLDS now who all tell similar stories about the kinds of abuse that run rampant in that church for us to know that there are some serious issues (like underage marriage and misappropriation of state and federal funds meant for schools, for starters) in the FLDS communities. One thing that both Carolyn Jessop and Brent Jeffs seemed to agree on as I read their books, was that their polygamous communities were not such frightening places to live in prior to when Warren Jeffs became 'prophet'. As a matter of fact both recall many fond memories of family life, social activities, the ability to go to school, to watch television, read books, wear coloured clothes and a small amount of makeup and so on. All of that apparently began to change when Warren Jeff's father was the prophet and spent most of his time predicting the end of the world and telling people to prepare in some bizarre ways. When he died and Warren took over the leadership of the community, he went completely haywire and controlling and life became miserable for those who lived under him. I believe at least that much of what I've read so far, only because the same stories have come from so many different people who have fled the FLDS communities.

I remember being surprised by her statements to the press during the FLDS raids, considering she claimed a strong bond with her own children while she was living in a polygamous household. I immediately wondered if she considered that she could just as easily have been one of those women if she'd been unable to escape when she did. I still feel sick recalling that whole incident. It was just horrifying.