Sugarbay

At least the house wouldn't reek of cigarette smoke. I think it's a novel idea and why not, eh?

Congrats, Traveler. Hey, take a laptop. This forum needs you. I surely enjoy your posts.

Thanks. I appreciate that. Hey, I am a cert tech for Microsoft. Legality? You wouldn't believe how many people "can't find" their OPSYS disk. I used Linux myself. I am a hard core geek. But, I am going to check this stuff out today. Thank, CK.

QUOTE Well Bluesaphires...looks like I'm still on this lovely forum, (I signed on just to check) it will probably be just as difficult to get my name removed from this forum as it was getting my name removed from the church records! but I just want to be removed from here!! Then why post anything? Back to the topic. Hot drinks, tannic acid,ice, etc. It is about addicting substances. As far as Shan and Maureen caring about this subject, they have their opinion and I understood this site to allow non-members opinions so I think that we shouldn't make that part of the discussion. A Latter-Day Saint knows what to use and what not to use. I think that Maureen's and Shan's opnions are valuable. They didn't come right out and tell us to disobey our prophets and Father. There were simply expressing their opinion. If they were to tell anyone to disobey no LDS person would respect that or follow that advice. I think for the sake of debate these issues are raised. I obey the WoW because I know that when I didn't I didn't feel as well as I do now. I obey the WoW because if I keep my end of the deal Father blesses me with the promises he makes if we are obedient. I used to drink coffee, 4 double quads of espresso to get one eye open and now I wake up and get out of bed and am alert, more so than I ever was with caffeine. I don't need an addictive substance to wake up. If it weren't addicting why do we go through the headache/withdrawl and such. I love the freedom this WoW brings. When I smoked, I could forget everything else when I left the house to go somewhere, but I NEVER forgot my cigarettes. Now my house doesn't stink, my hair and clothes and car don't reek, my teeth aren't yellow, I am not coughing and hacking. The Wow is a good thang. I like being addiction free...well except for typing in forums.

It isn't the tannic acid. If that were the case then Father would have said not to eat nuts, nettle, wood, berries, Chinese galls. Oak wood is very rich in tannic acid. When wine is kept in oak kegs some tannic acid will migrate into the wine. High levels of tannic acid are found in some plant galls. These are formed by plants when they are infected by certain insects. These insects pierce the plant leaves and when the egg hatches out into a larva the plant produces a gall which surrounds the larva. Blecch. I think I will go with the addiction precept as it certainly makes more sense since Father doesn't say not to eat nuts and berries. The very idea that Father would not want us to partake of tannic acid, which is a tannig agent, makes me wonder about the sacredness of the stomach if not indeed the entire digestive tract, since after we are die we dont need a stomach because we don't have one until we are resurrected whereupon we can choose to eat or not to eat, as shown by the Savior eating with his Apostles after he returned to them after his resurrection. Remember he said, when they were afraid he was a ghost? "Does a spirit have flesh and bone as ye see me have?" And he ate with them. So if it is to avoid tanning the stomach which would be riduculous because everything is restored to its perfect frame, what is the point, especially since in the war between tannic acid and hydrochloric acid whic is secreted inthe stomach, tannic would lose. Tannic acid has anti-bacterial, anti-enzymatic and astringent properties. Tannic acid has constringing action upon mucous tissues such as tongue and inside of mouth. The ingestion of tannic acid caused constipation and can be used to treat diarrhoea (in the absence of fever or inflammation). The anti-oxidant and anti-mutagenic properties of tannic acid are beneficial. However, tannic acid should not be used continuously or in high quantities ad it slows down the absorption of iron and possibly other trace minerals. A study by Afsana K et al entitled Reducing effect of ingesting tannic acid on the absorption of iron, but not of zinc, copper and manganese by rats. published by Bioscience, Biotechnology, and Biochemistry (March 2004) concluded that the usual intake of polyphenols is relatively safe, but that a high intake by supplementation or by dietary habit of tannin affects only the iron level. Tannic acid can also reduce the effectiveness of digestive enzymes. Externally, tannic acid is used to treat ulcers, toothache and wounds. Now why would Father want us to avoid that?

Ok so coffee and tea are both mentioned in the WoW ok,so if a person drinks coffee or tea that will keep them out of the temple right?? But if a person drinks coke,pepsi,mt.dew or any other cold caffeinated drink that wont keep them out of the temple? If thats the case then I think that's a double standard in our church(LDS)caffeine is caffeine no matter what form it happen's to come in weather its in coffee,tea, or soda's. bluesaphires_n_diamonds That's why Father says it isn't meet that he should govern us in all things. We know what teh answer is. He knows we know what the answer is. It is up to us to decide whether or not WE are going to partake of caffeine whether or not the RS prez or the Stake Prez drinks diet Pepsi. I'll bet the GA's don't drink anything with caffeine in it. In the end, it is Father we have to face. We have our agency to do as we choose. He says that we should reason these things out in our minds, not just give no thought except to ask him. In other words, he gave us intelligence, he would like us to use it. This is just a test, a preperatroy period for what is to come. Either way, even decaf coffee isn't a good thing if for nothing else, the appearance of drinking coffee. The hot drinks they had back then were coffee, tea, and very strong chocolate, which we know has caffiene in it. So I can justify and rationaize and drink cold espresso, right? I have been wasting all this time being tired when I could have been having iced coffee or iced tea? That must mean not hot herb teas either, or hot water, hot apple cider, hot lemoade for a sore throat: so any hot drink? I will have to tell my Gospel Doctrine class about this. No more struggling with trying to give of Pepsi, for a good friend of mine. Hey, thanks for that link. When it comes around to teaching teh WoW again that will come in darn handy.

That's the way it is for me. too. Life changes and so the ones that I marked ten years ago take on a different meaning wthin the same context.My scriptures look like a coloring book. Color-coding gone horrible wrong, but the heft, smell, feel of the scriptures and knowing what I have marked is, was, will be important to me is what counts. I was feeling a little guilty about the colors and markings in my scriptures until I saw my stake prez's scriptures. Mine look pretty good compared to his. Every margin is filled in his. I love it!

Tisha, I saw a bald eagle and 14 wolves yesterday. The eagles were sitting in my trees down at the creek and the wolves are in a pen beside the house. Not quite the same as Alaska but I get teh same thrill here in Montana. At least these wolves I can hug and feel their fur and howl with them. haven't learned to fly with eagles yet. Maybe in the next life... Good salmon fishing up there too. Sounds like heaven to me. I had chickens once. They aren't a stupid as people think they are. I really liked them. I had an Austalorpe hen that followed me everywhere and would lay her egg in my lap if I sat down. She was a riot. Had a banty rooster named Larry. He would try to breed the big hens with no success . They would just keep eating bugs, pecking, almost chewing their gum, so to speak, and then he would jump down and ruffle and preen and crow. He was a great guy. Raccons got all of them. I miss them. Enjoyed the chickens, Shan. I could never have eaten mine either. I had 13 of them and loved the eggs but I think I fell in love with how the chickens felt, feathers and such, and a warm egg after is was laid. I loved hearing the eggs peep a day or two before they hatched. This really brought back some good memories. I am sitting here smiling and missing them. Thank you, Shan.

Major geek/nerd here. HOWEVUH, I really still like the 64. I found two of them at a garage sale recently with Golden Eye and Zelda, Ocarina of Time, and all the fun that 64 was after the Super Nintendo came back. I started going to Game Stop and finding all the old 64 games. What a hoot. But, Wii is on my birthday list of things to get myself. That and this AMD dualcore/dualchannel processor I have been coveting. Vidiot is the word I should have used.

Well, we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Also, coffee and tea were mentioned in the WoW because at that time they didn't have Mountain Dew and Pepsi. Can you imagine what people would have thought if Father had listed all the things he knew would have caffeine in them? Addiction is what the issue is. The war in heaven was about agency and when we are addicted to something we have given up agency when we are controlled by a need for a substance. Decaf is only 97% caffeine free. It is also akin to keeping one foot in the door to temptation. Father says it isn't necessary for him to govern us in all things We are to pray and ponder these things. We aren't to look for justification and rationalization to do what he has asked us not to do. We can argue Spirit of the Law and Letter of the Law all day long but addiction is why we are to avoid caffeine. I would be concerned about anyone seeing me drinking decaf and wondering why an LDS person is drinking coffee. Being a good example. Maybe ask her to do what the Savior would do or what he would have her do.

I think it would be great to have john doe there. I love his posts. He could have his own forum..."Who is John Doe?" Sug

It is a fun site, certainly worthy of attention. Good job, Jeffrey.

Monica, Dont' be ridiculous. Tell the truth, you posted just to see yourself post. No one is saying he can't stay, this misguided soul needs to change the screen name. They can seek something spiritual using a name like Bella or wolfjingles, or even zionchick, snooperone, or im2spicy4u, names like that instead. This person doesn't need to mock the name of our Father no matter how he spells it. Istead, why dont you start quoting scripture about taking theLord's name in vain, only THIS time use the Book of Mormon, you know, that book that you believe to be true, as evidenced by the religion you say you are. Well done. Well done. It is LDS Talk, after all! Not gnosticTalk or Trying-to-Find-a-Reason-to-Say-Stupid- Things Talk. LDS Talk. If you can't handle respecting the beliefs of this site, the core values, perhaps you could find satisfaction on a board where they welcome your beliefs and there you could defend your beliefs until you are blue in the face. But it is highly offensive to me as a member of this Church to have someone do this. I do hope someone has spoken to this person and told them to change the name? Twin sons, different mothers, right?

Back to the topic a bit. I believe we have been told to have a food storage for more reasons that just feeding our family in hard times When the economy finally grinds to a halt there will be people doing just as Tux is talking about. If we follow what we are told to do, then we minimize the chance that we will be put in a position to kill, steal, etc. for ourselves and families. I do know this, that if anyone were to attack a family member, or some guy on the street for what he has, and they want, I will vigorously defend that person. My family, of course would be defended with a weapon of my choosing and to my death, if needs be. I hope that it never comes to that. There are people all over this world that feel they have no other options than to do degrading things to make a living. For them I am sorry that they dont have the truth. Me personally, I was in the music world for a while and I found that I was not able to present myself as something less than my Father's daughter, to the public. But I was already a member of the church. We have several actors in this area, and a few that are LDS and it is refreshing to know that as talented as they may be, they do not compromise their beliefs for a buck. That has to be difficult when you know that you have the talent, and Hollywood knows you have the talent but you choose to serve the Lord and do as he would have you do. One man, who has to remain nameless, told me that it is tough enough going through life pretending you are someone else all the time let alone shove your beliefs on the back burner in order to make a living at it. Would I steal? My immediate response is to say "no", but I can't say "never" because I am not there yet. That will be a test of my faith and obedience. But in my heart of hearts I know that I would pray and always ask my Father in heaven what I should do in any situation in which I have no clue. When it comes to stealing I think I will just have to go without. This is a good subject. A thoughtful topic. Thank you, CT. P.S. I might steal a good NY cheesecake, though...

What a good post, Lindy. It is so true. Thank you.

Hey, I am more than a little offended by the new member who's nic is "GOD". Fathers name should be treated with respect and I think that this is way over the line, don't you? Moderators? Admin? Heather?

Congratulations. you are in my prayers. You are so fortunate to have this opportunity and so is this child fortunate to have you and your family. I think of how blessed you both are. How pleased Father must be. You are wonderful people.

What's wrong with that. If only every stood by their covenants what a great place this would be. Shame on you for putting her down. Perhaps she thinks it is whacko to turn your back on your covenants after serving a mission, being married in the temple, coming out in open rebellion against Father, and such. She would be right. Somebody was cranky last night. Sugar, you know better than to get me wound-up over this. Why are you trying? I miss you.

Or a chronic deceiver.

I don't think seniority has anything to do with what anyone believes. She is entitled to her opinion just as much as anyone else. Newbies are no different than the oldies, except they have to learn that people are sometimes very cruel here. They have opinions and beliefs and because they are younger makes no difference. Welcome to LDSTalk , cynyclsgirl. It is good to have a breath of fresh air around here and someone who is not ashamed of their beliefs and will defend them in a rather hostile enviornment sometimes. Glad to have you. Play WELL, and don't be intimidated by those who think they have the upperhand since they have been arguing here longer. It is apparent that erudition, articulation, and good manners are not a necessary part of discussion here sometimes as evidenced by the mud-slinging. Be undaunted in you testimony. I like that you do sound like you have just returned form Youth Conference. You have a new champion here.

Ray, are you saying that Shantress has been deceived by Satan??? An ancient chaplaincy proverb goes: Beware those who self-describe the assistance they offer as quote-unquote help. Ray, you've all but accused Shantress of being demonized, and then imply that I'm being contentious to invoke a scriptural admonition??? What are the core values of LDSTalk. Is anyone moderating this thread? No, I am not relying on anyone else's wisdom. I was a member of this church for several years, and when I finally got serious about asking, God gave me the message to move on. I have been viewing the comments here for quite a while and I wanted to comment on your comment Shanstress when you mentioned that you were a member of the church for several years, when you got serious about asking God he gave you the message to move on? you seem to appear as someone who only will reply on "Proof" asking for "sources" Im sorry that you found refuge from "sources" that were not from God himself. for God would not lead his followers onto what you would consider "greener pastures" after finding the restored gospel. its lucifers desire to confuse you once again. it seems its him who has earned another check mark on his score board. so I can only muster up the thought that you are on LDS Talk for a reason, either you are trying to convince yourself and those like Prisonchaplin, Maureen who claim another religion but seem to find themselves leaving posts on a website for LDS. why? is there not any other worthy forums to chat about there own "religion" with those that profess or share there own beliefs, your wasting your time muddling around with those that have a strong knowledge of Joseph Smith and Testimony of the true restored gospel of Jesus Christ. or is it your mission to convert us back to your weak testimony, and have us be miserable like that of Lucifer, Im sure that those that submit posts that are not of the LDS faith only read to find more negative opinions or lack of a testimony to share with there friends. Im sorry that you were not born during Joseph Smiths day so that you could actually seek the proof and sources that you seem to need badly to affirm your beliefs The Gospel plan is very simple to the core, very understandable. I like Rays comments he's level headed and to the point. you can never walk away from the church, Heavenly Father knows you were baptized, he will not dismiss it as you have. you will be held accountable for having the truth, accepting it, whither you continue on in its journey or walk away. but if the church does bother you so, why continue to waste your precious time at this website? all other churchs on this earth have a degree of the truth, but not as completely as the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. the priesthood was restored. because of Joseph Smith the people of this world no longer has to walk in darkness. Just like a staircase lucifers at the bottom step, and as you take steps up you learn precept by precept, Heavenly Father leads you to another church with more truths, and as you progress, he leads you to even more truth, when those people have grown in knowledge he prepares his spirit children to recieve the complete truth which leaves the LDS only on the top step, you cannot progress any further or higher, you have arrived. if you feel that you have taken a step back down, thats your doing. I dont like seeing the nonsense from those that list there religion as "Christian" they are still seeking some knowledge they dont wish to list any other actual or claim membership to another church. some advice- call your existing R.S. pres and chat with her. continue to read the Ensign, if you dont have one subscribe at the LDS.org site. Good Post! You are right! There are core values to this site and they seem to have fallen by the wayside. If people don't ascribe to LDS beliefs then fine but don't try to make us seems as if we are the wrong ones. If that is your desire then go to a site that better suits your religion and level of testimony. This thread has turned into every other mudslinging event here. I cannot believe the moderators do not step in and defend the CORE values of this site and church. Everryone should be welcome here understanding that we are members of this church. You aren't going to change that with all this arguing. AL it has ever done for me is reaffirm what I believe. We have so many intelligent posters, provacative posters, and yet it turns into this slugfest all the time.

Well, you were half right. We do believe the term "Christian" refers to someone who believes in Jesus as Saviour. However, we also believe that such faith is sufficient for entry into eternity with God. Now, if someone believes in Jesus as Savior--but does not believe that his/her faith is sufficient--that works must also be done to earn the salvation--we would label such beliefs heterodox (unacceptable). I'm not suggesting that such an approach will necessarily garner more souls, but it will clear up some of the confusion that exists between the LDS Church and the rest of us. Let's go to the doppler. JAMES 2:17-26 where it clearly states that faith without works is dead, being alone. Interesting the fact that in verse 19 it says: "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." 20: "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" We do not get anywhere on faith alone. Verse 26: "For as the bodyu without the spirit is dead, so faith wihtout works is dead also." King James Version. I am not picking on you Chap, I adore you, just going to the scriptures where it plainly states that faith alone is not enough. As a missionary, I was careful not to "give up" on people who rejected the message or just didn't listen. I went forth with the voice of warning, but I wasn't privy to the communications between them and God. Thus, I couldn't say if they'd "had their chance" because I didn't know if God did or didn't tell them our message was true. The same thing applies here, I think. We don't know what God has or hasn't told someone yet. Instead of drawing a line in the sand, let's erase the lines that divide us. Ahh, a voice of reason in the wilderness. Good post.

Sounds like someone just got out of an Especially For Youth conference.... What's wrong with that. If only every stood by their covenants what a great place this would be. Shame on you for putting her down. Perhaps she thinks it is whacko to turn your back on your covenants after serving a mission, being married in the temple, coming out in open rebellion against Father, and such. She would be right.

Back from the dead? You look great!!!

Wow, wolfjingles, that is an OLD identity! For the members of the church. I think the Word of Wisdom states what Father wants us to do. So we obey him or we don't. We can rationalize all we want but he says what he says. He means what he says and he expects us to obey.