Suzie

By world's standards I'm thin (115 lbs) and it's mainly due to genes (my birth mother was very skinny) I do admit I hardly eat meat or fried foods and I enjoy healthier meals, having said that I still eat junk once in a while and my main concern has always been health rather than weight. I'm not obsessed with it or looks but I try my best to take care of myself. It bothers me when people (specially thin people) judge those who are overweight, it bothers me when jokes are said about obese people, it bothers me because it could be ME or YOU or someone you love and I can only imagine how hurtful must be hearing those things. In my opinion, it is none of my business why they reached that size, the most important point is that EVERYONE wants to be loved and accepted just the way they are. I can disagree all I want with their lifestyle but there are proper ways to address the issue without resulting on treating them like modern-day lepers. They are not. If it's a friend, should I speak about it? Why not? A concerned friend will address the issue but with love, tenderness and understanding. I have a background in Psychology and let me tell you: Nobody wishes to be overweight. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says that they enjoy being fat. Nobody. There are so many reasons why someone may be overweight or obese from health related conditions (physical) to serious trauma and psychological related issues that causes them to use food as a medication. I would like to teach my children that they can be friends with anyone who wants to be their friend regardless of race, financial status or weight issues because it is my hope they can be a good influence and example to other people, perhaps the little chubby boy that was mentioned in one of the posts who eats Mc Donalds a lot and play videogames all day do not have good examples to follow, perhaps if he comes to my home and is served a healthier meal he will know better...maybe, just maybe he might change his choices because he saw an alternative. People who are overweight or obese do NOT need to be scorned, mocked, proved"wrong", embarrassed, felt pity for or humiliated. Most of them have been dealing with all these things for years from others and from themselves. They need SUPPORT, they need people who are willing to be there for them just like everyone else, they need encouragement!

I stand corrected. I meant incestuous marriages, not siblings specifically. With your premise about homosexual couples not able to produce viable offspring, are you going then to ban heterosexual couples who wish to marry but they are unable to have children or perhaps choose not to have them at all?

I'm adopted and was raised mainly by males. I am very feminine, heterosexual and I am very healthy. So I don't believe you necessarily need both genders to raise a child. However, I do understand your point on the influence of both genders.

How is homosexual marriage the same as having sex with your dog? Please explain. I thought my argument was clear: Separation of Church and State.

Actually, there are quite a few states that allow incestuous marriages but I'm sorry to disappoint but I am not going to bring my moral views on this because again, religion should stay out of the law in my opinion not to mention this isn't a discussion about incest. However, I would like someone to answer this on a purely legal aspect: Why two consenting adults of the same gender are forbidden to marry? The question remains unanswered.

We are not living 30 years ago. Bytor, I understand your points. My main issue is that for me there must be a separation of my personal/religious beliefs from the actual law.. I don't believe I have the right to impose my perceived views on morality, my personal views on what is perverse lifestyle and my opinion of the Adversary to other people who do not believe as I do. Now, if we are talking about gays wanting to be married in a specific religious denomination and such religion being forced by law to do so, of course I would disagree NOT because they are gays but simply because I believe that every organization (including religious ones) are like clubs where there are rules and requirements people should fulfill if they wish to join. Other than that, I believe religion should stay out of the law.

I never understand why when we discuss gay marriage, we thrown in the middle bestiality and minors. Marrying a child or sibling in most US states is illegal, the sibling because it is incest and the child because it is a minor and cannot consent. Marrying an animal well it's obvious which leaves me with the last one: "Just like I can't marry another dude". Why cannot under the law TWO consenting ADULTS of the same gender marry? I seriously want to know the reason why they can't.

I agree it was dumb to call him, but I am not going to use the opportunity now to bash his sexual orientation.

Well, I am not completely satisfied to be honest but it is a step in the right direction.

I have a weakness for pink! I have pink bags, shirts, dresses, shoes, lipsticks, pens, nail polish, hair accessories, phone case, soap, towels, and the list goes on so I don't see anything wrong with pink streaked hair but I am bias.

Like the description of this wonderful and touching video says: Everyone deserves to be loved and valued, no matter how different they are from you.

What accusation? Nobody is disputing that, your point? I understand history quite well, and I think I know a little bit about Church history. No offense, but I think it is you who did not understand my post properly or read it all wrong because I actually agree with you. I said Brigham Young was a product of his era, meaning his way of thinking was typical of a 19th century man so we shouldn't "judge" him using modern views about race. However, it doesn't change the fact that his views ARE considered "racist" in the present time. That's a fact.

Brigham Young was the product of his era. And yes, it includes the fact that some of his opinions about black people would be considered racist in the present time.

If I was you, I would take a look. I usually go by "if something doesn't sound right it's probably not true" of course, this is not infallible but based on the problem your husband seem to have, I get the impression he is perhaps the one who started the inappropriate conversation and it's quite possible that this lady isn't the only one.

Have you seen these texts/emails with the "proof" and how the conversation started? Of course, I do not know your husband but based on how you are describing his situation/problem, I have a very hard time believing this lady is the one who started.

I do not know for certain, but my guess is that it was probably the work produced by Vogel with EMD. I know some people are critical of him as a former member (just probably like they are with Quinn). However, in all fairness he has been praised by quite a few LDS scholars due to his careful and meticulous research. But again, it's just a matter of opinion.

The friend in question is Zina D. Huntington Young and Zina's question to the Prophet Joseph Smith of whether or not she will see her mother in the other side of the veil. Even though I agree Eliza felt inspired to write this poem due to this incident (as well as her own struggle with her father's death), there are some parts of that song that to me clearly indicates she is referring to heavenly parents.

Hi Jeep, keep in mind that you are in an LDS forum and the Bible isn't our only book of Scripture. Also, we believe in studying and researching:

An early LDS poem (later it was made a song) about Heavenly Mother: 1 O my Mother thou that dwellest In thy Mansions upon High, Oft me thinks I still remember When you bade your child goodbye, How you clasped me to thy bosom, Bade me a true son to be, E’er I left my fathers Mansion, To dwell in Mortality. 2. How you gave me words of councel, To guide aright my straying feet, How you taught by true example, All of Fathers Laws to keep. While I strive in this probation, How to learn the gospel truth. May I merit thine approvel, As I did in early youth. 3. Tis recorded in thy journal How you stood by Fathers side When by powers that are eternal Thou wast sealed His Godess Bride How by love and truth and virtue, E’en in time thou dids’t become, Through thy high exalted station, Mother of the souls of men. 4 When of evil I’ve repented, And my work on earth is done, Kindest Father–loving Mother, Pray, forgive thine earing When my pilgrimage is ended And the victors wreath is won Father–Mother–to thy bosm Wilt thou welcome home thy son.

Spaniard Note: Am I playing this properly?

JAG, we have Linda K. Newell and V. Tippetts Avery in their biography about Emma and EMD. We also have other sources but are critical of Joseph. The Church web site talks about un-described birth defects. I just realized you wrote "infants". I was referring specifically about little Alvin.

I think most of us would agree that it was inappropriate. However, I don't think I would have informed a counselor (but I know everyone is different). I would have probably said something but that's about it.

Was it necessary to inform the YA branch president's counselor?

Zippy, don't you think that perhaps you are making assumptions about Wingnut? Stating that she should play with her child, and praise her, etc indirectly hints that she doesn't do that which in my limited view doesn't seem to be the case. Wingnut seems to be a genuine, very caring mother (I am not saying you are saying otherwise). There are people who believe in giving others a second, third or fourth chance, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

In June 1828, Martin Harris asked permission to the Prophet Joseph Smith to let him borrow 116 pages of the Book of Mormon to take home with him so he could show them to Lucy Harris (who besides being his wife) was also his first cousin. They had four children together. Lucy was a woman of a strong personality who not only believed Joseph Smith was a fraud but who was also very much against the association her husband had with him. Despite the many conversations and disagreements they had about Joseph, Martin believed in Joseph's miraculous story. Lucy by the other hand, was bitter against the Church and in the eyes of some, she is also responsible (part or full) for the loss of those pages since there are early accounts that state that Lucy took the manuscript and destroyed them. The loss of their farm due to the money Harris invested in the printing of the Book of Mormon, caused a major breakdown in their marriage and ending in separation in 1831. They never divorced. Lucy blamed the Church for the breaking of her marriage and accused Harris of being abusive. She died 5 years later at age of 44. Harris remarried a niece of Brigham Young after Lucy’s death. He was 33 years her senior and Caroline Young Harris was quite the opposite of Lucy, however that didn’t stop Harris from apostatizing several times and finally being re-baptized at the age of 88. He died in Utah, at the age of 92. One of the things that touch me the most about the loss of the 116 pages account it is certainly not the loss of the manuscript itself but what was happening at another location around the same time. Emma Smith was giving birth to her first child. Joseph was thrilled to know it was a boy because he wanted to honor his brother Alvin. As a matter of fact,he named their newborn after him. Unfortunately, their baby was severely disabled and died within hours. Three years later they would go through this all over again, with the loss of their twin children who were born premature and died within hours after birth as well. After taking care of Emma for a few weeks, Joseph left her side to go to Palmyra to take back the 116 pages he gave Harris. When he found out that he lost them, he was absolutely devastated. He blamed himself for doing something against God’s wishes but also devastated for the loss of his first son and he felt as he failed God and was receiving punishment for all his sins and shortcomings. It was all too much to bear for this 20 something year old man who was called by God to translate an ancient book. I also think of Emma and her unbearable pain as a mother and how much she loved Joseph and truly cared for him. It is not strange that there are hardly any records of their first baby’s death and disability; all we know is that he was severely malformed. Back in the 19th century, disabilities within a religious context, were seen as a curse from God and within a medical context, they saw disabilities as a threat that could weaken the genes of the nation therefore institutionalization was the preferred method of isolation for disabled people. It is not strange, that the Disciples of Christ asked him after seeing a blind man: When I think about that scripture, I think of Joseph and Emma’s little Alvin. I think of the struggles they endured together, I think of their pain, hopes as well as aspirations of first time parents. I think of the plans they made and the dreams they probably had about this baby, and yet ...it seems his name and birth were almost forgotten by all and all that seems to remain in the story are just the 116 pages lost by Martin Harris… But you see? There was more. There was a beautiful, fragile, innocent little baby being born. A baby whose gravestone bears no name... His name was Alvin Smith.