carlimac
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Posts posted by carlimac
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39 minutes ago, MormonGator said:
And in fairness, African-Americans might read some passages and think the same thing.
And sadly, two "kinds" of dark people would get their feelings hurt. Seriously, people need to lighten up! (Oh that was bad. I didn't mean that literally. I mean people need to just chill.)
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4 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:
I like the article and the related one on the site that talks about Elder Stevenson and quotes him as:
“We’re asking our members to disregard the paragraph in the printed manual,” he said, according to Deseret News. “Now I’m deeply saddened and hurt by this error and for any pain that it may have caused our members and for others. I would just like to reiterate our position as a Church is clear. We do condemn all racism, past and present, in any form, and we disavow any theory advanced that black or dark skin is a sign of a curse.”
How is it a theory when 2 Nephi5:21 says " as they were white, and exceedingly fair and bdelightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a dskin of eblackness to come upon them." and then "And cursed shall be the seed of him that amixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done."?
Did Joseph Smith translate this wrong?
If a person who is happy ( following the commandments, delighting in God's word, etc) mixes with a person who doesn't believe in God or feels "dejected", will their kids come out genetically gloomy and dejected? This just doesn't make sense.
I think the church should just shrug and say, we believe this is what the Lord conveyed to Joseph Smith in the translation. We know God can do whatever serves His purposes. Obviously at that time in history when the Nephites and Lamanites were clashing, this is what He did. We don't know what that blackness looked like because we weren't there. It may have been a marking we wouldn't even recognize today. There may no longer be any DNA linkage between this particular marking or skin and those that have darker skin today. It may not have ever touched Africa or anywhere else where people typically have darker skin. We certainly don't automatically think of dark skin as a curse today. It's not a "thing" at this time. (Of course the Church spokespeople would say it more eloquently than that.) But if God felt the need to darken the wickeds' skin to protect the Nephites, then it was His prerogative.
I live around many people with darker skin. I don't think I'm racist. I think it is just silly that anyone outside the church would connect a marking God put on a people under certain circumstances, and condemn us as being racist today when we very clearly aren't.
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I was reading an article about this confusing topic in LDS Living.com about Marvin Perkins. The title is, “How We Misinterpret "Black" and "Curse" in the Scriptures: Insights from an African American Convert“. This guy says “It’s understandable that many would read the scriptures and associate the word ‘black’ in all of its forms, relating to man, in the same way they believe it to be fact in our society. The Saints, and those of other faiths as well, instinctually assume that this word is in reference to race, nationality, or color of skin. . . . The LDS version of the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon help us to understand that the word black is actually a Hebrew idiom, meaning gloomy, dejected, or spiritual darkness, and has nothing to do with skin tone.“
Ok so that’s a nice thought. But I can see this explanation causing those who suffer from depression- which makes one feel “gloomy, dejected and can cause spiritual darkness” feel even worse than they already do. “So is this a curse from God? I never did anything to deserve this. God must hate me. “
One could really go down the rabbit hole with this explanation of “black skin”, too.
link to the whole article: https://www.ldsliving.com/How-We-Misinterpret-Black-and-Curse-in-the-Scriptures-Insights-from-a-Black-Convert/s/88562
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So does this mean the Book of Mormon is no longer "the most correct book on the face of the earth"?
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21 hours ago, Vort said:
But if the idea of intimate sexual activity between dance partners really is intrinsic to ballroom dancing, then that doesn't strike me as an appropriate public activity. The matter then becomes not so much whether BYU should allow homosexual couples to perform, but whether BYU should be participating in competitive ballroom dancing at all.
When we lived in a pretty conservative area of a western state, our young girls’ (9-11) best friends were heavy into ballroom dance. They start them early out there! As young as 2 or 3. So my daughters “tried out” to be in the classes. Which meant countless hours of classes and sitting through competitions- even at the beginner level that my girls were at. It was fun. The girls enjoyed learning the basic dances and it was darn cute to watch them. But I took them out after a year for several reasons- cost, going down a rabbit hole with this dance club who’s owner was crazy intense, competitive and demanding. But for me the deal breaker was watching the 14 year old girls performing moves that were so slimey and sexually provocative, and nobody stopping them!! I couldn’t understand why the mother of my daughters’ friends, who is more conservative than I am, didn’t seem to be bothered by it. She claimed it was just the nature of ballroom dance. Many of the girls on the team ended up at BYU on their ballroom dance team. I never really followed them or the team after that. It was just not something that I felt comfortable with.
For me it boils down to some dances (waltz, swing and some others) being tame and fun to do and watch. But I personally feel some of the Latin dances are not appropriate for BYU. And yet they do them there and have forever. 🤷♀️
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Well she finally talked to him. He was "nice and normal" to her as she put it. She says she's glad I encouraged her to talk to him- break the ice, shrink the elephant in the room. That may be the end of it. But at least it would be closure for her rather than him just fading away and always wondering what happened to him. The ball is squarely in his court if anything more is going to happen. I can pray my guts out, and even if it's a relationship the Lord would approve of, the guy still has his agency. It's not up to me to get inspiration on who she should end up with. but I can and do get inspiration on how to urge my children forward. Some need a little urging. Others not!!
- Just_A_Guy and Traveler
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Well she’s got two more years of school so it would have to be a pretty good offer to make her drop her program. 🤔
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41 minutes ago, Anddenex said:
I am a little late to providing thoughts on this and may repeat what others have shared, and if so, well then I am simply another witness. Here are some thoughts:
1) We are informed that there are no coincidences when it comes to God being in our lives. The story of the boy being in the same class with your daughter allows the potential theories, all of which could be true or wrong:
a. This experience is for your daughter to come to the knowledge that he isn't interested. He knows she's there. He knows he is in her class but hasn't spoken with her. Yet he hasn't spoken with her.
b. Another opportunity for him to recognize that the Lord has placed someone compatible with him. Sadly, he may be afraid. I had a friend who almost married a girl, but when he thought about loosing his single life he ended the relationship.
c. The young man may have prayed and the Lord said, "No." He himself is confused and not sure why the Lord said "No" and doesn't want to confuse his answer by putting himself in a situation where he may marry someone the Lord said No, but whom he was hoping it was a "Yes."
I could come up with other thoughts/theories that are from conference talks, scriptures, etc... but I think you get the picture of what I am painting.
2) Your thought/impressions remind me of the notion of soul mates. We have to remember there are no soul mates (despite what others feel) and has been clearly taught. As such, your impression hinges upon a soul mate type scenario. Judge impressions by revealed truth, and always remember we can receive further witness. Similar to a man/woman who is starting to receive impressions that they may be called to a specific calling, and then they aren't called. Why? Because, the Lord is allowing a person to know they are worthy of the calling, and in fact they may have been one of two people (maybe three) being discussed.
3) Yes, as we are are growing grace for grace, there will be times where we will confuse impressions or not understand them, or simply due to our personal feelings we allow ourselves or put ourselves in a position to receive a false impression.
12 years ago I had an impression regarding a topic I was studying and seeking to understanding. The impression was that something would happen in 9-10 years. When I realized one way this impression would/could come true I prayed and prayed that it would not happen. There were other ways it could come true also. Well, it has been 13 years and nothing resulted.
I don't know if due to the second impression of how it could happen, but due to may fervent prayers it didn't happen. Or simply, I was caught up in my own studies and feelings that I allowed a false impression to enter my heart and mind. One thing though, I never shared with anyone the impression, but wrote it in my journal. Or simply, it has come to pass, and the Lord is simply waiting for the right time (9-10 may have been simply the beginning of the prophecy, not the end).
We are all progressing. The point being, even if we do have a false impression, or what we consider is false it doesn't negate the true impressions that have already happened. They are still true. We then move forward with faith, hope, and charity leading us into all good works until we reach a more sure word of prophecy and revelation.
I appreciate this. I really do. But it’s mentally exhausting. I would think if the Lord wanted us to know or do something it wouldn’t be so murky, requiring mental gymnastics and contortions to have it make sense.
There have been times in my life when I have had clear impressions. Small things like how to comfort a hurting child or testifying of God to a doubting son. Clear, precise. I guess when we have to work so hard to justify something or cram a puzzle piece in where it doesn’t fit, it wasn’t a true prompting.
I do believe in coincidences and chance happenings. Even after praying for that thing, it isn’t always from God.
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Back to the original question: I’d like to hear how some of you have handled things when what has appeared to be either pure inspiration or clear answer to prayer at first has turned out not to be so.
Did you just shrug and say “oh well”? Or did it make you question your ability to recognize promptings at all?Tell me about a time when you were sure of a prompting...then things turned out different. How did you feel? What did you do? Did you back-pedal or come up with a different “reason” for the prompting? Or were you able to say, “I was mistaken”. It doesn’t have to be about relationships. It can be about anything.
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38 minutes ago, estradling75 said:
Heh... I was just going to say if the roles were reversed... We would be telling the guy to get a clue... stop being all creepy obsessive and that this was a clear NO and NO means NO.
But it looks like you got there before me
It wasn’t a clear anything.
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24 minutes ago, Maureen said:
For me, I have to wonder why this young man can't just communicate to your daughter in a kind way that he is no longer interesting in dating, friendship, going out, etc. What's with "ghosting" someone? To me that's just inconsiderate and rude. And because he handled the ending of their relationship in this way, I don't think he deserves your daughter.
M.
Yes, I agree. Whole articles have been written about this phenomenon. It's really unnerving. And honestly, I think maybe we do ourselves a disservice by asking God to take control of situations like this. Humans ( me more than my daughter) need to just accept what is and try not to interject some false spiritual impression into the mix. If he doesn't like her, he doesn't like her, no matter how perfect they look together "on paper."
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Here is part two of the story:
Even after he ghosted her I still felt like he was right for her...against all odds. She was disheartened that he ignored her so she had deleted his number from her phone. Even if she wanted to talk to him again she really had no way of contacting him. (They are both off Mutual at this point) Bit I still felt positive about it. They seemed like a perfect match. I prayed that the Lord’s will be done. If there was a good reason he had dropped her but still had feelings for her perhaps the Lord could provide a way, work a miracle of sorts to get these two back together. Lo and behold, she called me the first day of the new semester. “Mom, guess who is in my___________class?” It was him. I was genuinely surprised. She had not seen or talked to him for 5 months. No contact whatsoever. Then he ends up in her class? Wow! With this news hope was restored. I’m thanking God and thinking it’s going to happen after all.
But two weeks into this class, and he has not acknowledged her. I’ve encouraged her to make her presence known, at least say hello to him. She says she’s quite sure he knows she’s in this class of over 100 students. She saw him notice her and then look the other way. 🤨 He obviously is still avoiding her.
Ok so now I’m feeling sheepish. This very clearly wasn’t an answer to prayer. My impressions that these two will end up together were just my own desires- not spiritual promptings at all. So now if there must be a “reason” for this apparent miracle- these two having a class together it’s to put a final nail in the coffin of this potential relationship.
Actually, I doubt the Lord had anything to do with it. They simply both had to take that class this semester. He’s graduating. She has two more years.
I just really wonder how often we make something of what we think are impressions or works of God when they really aren’t.
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Would there always have to be a reason for a prompting?
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Since we've been instructed to focus on personal revelation and how it comes to us I've been wondering a lot about what is revelation and if some of it is fabricated to fit our situation, to save face.
Here's an example: I have a daughter in college who I love and admire so very much! She is awesome!! Beautiful, kind, smart, loving sibling, RM, artistic and musical talents, loves to do active things like hike, play soccer, ice skate, in great shape, etc. Dream girl in my opinion. But she's also quiet and not terribly outgoing. She was having a dating dry spell about 9-10 months ago and she said she felt spiritually impressed to go on Mutual (dating app), which she did. She got lots of match ups and went on sometimes 2-3 dates a week for awhile. She had fun but nothing earth shaking happened- usually just one-and-done dates kind of thing. Then she matched up with Mr. Mutual as I call him. She fell hard for him. She ended up going out with him a few times and then the semester ended and he went home. About that time she says she prayed and felt like she should get off Mutual now. That it's purpose was fulfilled. She was smitten. We thought "he's the one". She kind of arranged her summer to be around when he was around rather than spend the whole summer at home. They went out again. And then he completely "ghosted" her. Like, went Poof! She was very hurt. She texted him and he never replied.
So now she feels like the reason she felt impressed to do Mutual at all was not to meet him, but just to get out of her dating rut. Which helped- she did get out of it. But now she's back in a dreary dry spell again. So was she really feeling the spirit when she opened a Mutual account? Or was she doing like we sometimes do when we see spiritual promptings as one thing but it doesn't pan out like we thought it would. So we unconciously make up another reason why we were "impressed" to do or think or say something? Was it really a spiritual prompting at all or just a desire?
She's a very good, spiritually in -tune person. So I'm not trying to question her integrity at all. I'm just wondering if we Church members tend to put more stock in "impressions" than we should.
There is more to the story but I'll leave it there for now.
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Some thoughts:
Talk to your bishop about this!!
As one who has struggled with ruminating thoughts and obssessions, I can see where this comes from. Not a healthy place.
Everything else can be perfect in your marriage and lives, even doing all the church things to a T, and it can still happen. It's a mental health thing. He needs help.
It's not your fault!
How soon before she leaves the area? She needs to be protected from ever finding out. It has and never should have anything to do with her. It's a figment of your husband's imagination. Pure revelation would never send him into the bathroom with his phone to encrypt stuff about her. That just isn't how anything from the Lord works.
Good luck! I hope his mind clears sooner than later!
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On 1/1/2020 at 1:44 PM, Jane_Doe said:
You can if you want to. I've never done so as the Activity Days leader.
~ Ages 18 mo - 12 years = Children = Primary
~ Ages 12 years - 18 years = Youth = Young Men and Young Women's.
Now that being said, you obviously want to tailor things to your particular class. If you think something in the "youth" booklet will be good for your mature 10's year olds, then use it. And on most days, you probably don't want to use the little kids wiggle stuff for older primary kids.
But the only children involved in this program are the 8-12 yr old classes.
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70 year old Sister in the ward: “We’re thankful for the rain that is replenishing the earth. And we’re grateful it’s not snow!” (Actual chuckles from the congregation)
- Just_A_Guy and Backroads
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1 hour ago, MarginOfError said:
Of course they don't remember what they learned. Or much of it anyway. They're still teenagers. I've never looked at someone who earned an Eagle Scout rank and thought, "I bet they know their knots." But I do think, "I know they learned those knots once." Additionally, I can reasonably think that if they have an Eagle award, they likely have a basic understanding of knife and gun safety, even if they don't know the specifics of running a safe range. Likewise, I can look at Young Women who have earned the Personal Progress medallion, and I can tell you which scriptures they've studied, and have a reasonable understanding of what kind of time they've put into it and what kind of activities they've performed. They might not be able to quote scriptures or give dissertations about what they've learned, but I understand what foundation I have to build on.
With the new program, I won't be able to make generalizations like that about youth who complete the program. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a trade off. But the problem is almost never the checklist. The problem is usually the leaders that permit checklists to be completed without challenging people with real growth.
I’m wondering why you are evaluating these kids in the first place? Are you a bishop?
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5 hours ago, Mores said:
Had an answer half done but it disappeared when I stuck my phone in my pocket to pick up my baby granddaughter. I’m in the hospital with her ( she’s fine) and her mom (she’s not fine- post- partum toxemia). My daughter is on magnesium sulfate IV and can’t do anything but feed her 8 day old baby. REAL WORLD experience going on here. 😳
5 hours ago, MarginOfError said:Also to defend checklists, the whole premise of this new program is for youth to set their goals and then for leaders to help them write their own checklists. The major change is that there is no longer a baseline for how much a person should have accomplished to "complete the program."
This has advantages and disadvantages. The primary advantage is that, when applied correctly, youth will learn how to set goal, and break them down to achieve them. And the goals and process to do so are completely customizable to the individual.
The primary disadvantage is that there is no way to look at someone who has completed the Church's youth program and have any idea what they know or have experienced. It gives up generalizability for individuality. We've given up more of the former than I would like, but whatever.
I hate to say it but I bet lots of Young Women complete the program but don’t remember what they learned, especially if done under pressure just to check it off the list.
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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:
The Filipino kind where people just show up without needing an invite... we usually have around 100 people and I usually spring for a water slide bouncy house and I spring $3 for an ironed-on bday t-shirt for giveaways to the kiddos - I make 40 t-shirts every bday. So the kiddos get all good and wet and then they dry up and then change into the t-shirts and we all sing happy birthday around the cake and take a picture. It's awesome. Hah hah.
So my mother-in-law has been trying to find all the shirts for every year so she can make some kind of quilt for my son's 18th birthday... she couldn't find all the shirts so she ended up ditching the project. But it would've been the craziest awesome thing to do because... and now I'm gonna cry again... for the first time in my son's life, he will not be spending his bday with us next year as he will be on his mission. Waaaaaaa!
Can’t love this enough!!
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4 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:
As far as whether or not you care about the topic: obviously I have no particularized knowledge there. All I know is that when I suggested the Church was heavily subsidizing girls camp, you found that sufficiently problematic to pipe up with the statements that a) the girls had to pay for camp (an amount that turns out to be 1/4 what the boys were paying), and b) the Church camps probably aren’t THAT expensive.
Not problematic. Just a bit far fetched.
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2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:
Here a Connecticut scout camp where the “discount” fee is $325 and the regular fee is $450.
If I personally cared about this topic I would argue that the fact that Boy Scout camp costs more than YW camp doesn’t prove anything regarding ward budget. 🤷♀️
42 minutes ago, anatess2 said:We didn't have a cow. But we had horses in patriotic colors leading our July 4th bike parade ward activity once. It was awesome.
But what kind of birthday party costs $600? 🤔
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21 minutes ago, anatess2 said:
This is, of course, silly and displays a complete and utter misunderstanding of what Youth Activities are about.
Do you tell kids who think school is not their sort of thing to stop going to school because it is unnecessary for their eternal salvation?
🙄 My point is that Personal Progress as well as the new program are simply tools members can use if they so choose to draw closer to the Savior. Some kids don’t need this tool. It doesn’t fit their style. But they are just as Christ-like, giving, accomplished and spiritually in tune as others who fretted and fussed and got nagged at to finish all these rather arbitrary assignments. Perhaps more so because they are doing the right thing for the right reason instead of doing it to get an adult off their back or out of peer pressure.
For some, Personal Progress is the exact right method to learn what they need to learn. For others it misses the mark because they don’t respond well to the checklist approach to living the Gospel. Likewise many young men don’t get their Eagle because it doesn’t resonate with them. But they are excellent young men.
I would bet my life that there will be many numbers of souls in the Celestial Kingdom who never completed their Young Woman medallion or got their Eagle who were on the Earth when the Church subscribed to these programs.
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15 hours ago, MormonGator said:
How is the activity rate for the youth groups in your area?
In her ward there are quite a few families who don’t come. Probably about average for her area.
In my ward in MD we have actually about 75-80% activity rate for youth and Primary.
Why do you ask?
Racial Error in Come Follow Me Manual
in Current Events
Posted · Edited by carlimac
Or gender! Thank heavens at least tonight at the indoor track meet they lowered the hurdles a notch or two for the girls after the boys had run- without any fuss from anyone.