carlimac
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Posts posted by carlimac
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That was my thought, too. But my idea of compassion and the RS president’s are different. I don’t have her right to inspiration on this but my first thought was, this is dangerous for ward people to be exposed to. Even wearing masks and gloves like we did. The sister missionaries came to help and were fairly traumatized by it.
She sees us reporting them as turning our backs on them when they came to us for help. I’ve only been in the ward for 22 months and had never met them till today. She’s known them for a long time.
It will be interesting to see what the bishop decides.
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Today I had the head spinning, stomach turning, toe curling experience of helping clean out an inactive member’s home that hadn’t been cleaned for many many years.
Wife couldnt come home from hospital after major surgery because house was too filthy.
Pet feces 6” high in some places.
Dust, cobwebs clinging to everything.
Mold all over the doors and many interior walls.
Dirty underwear mixed in with papers, cigarettes and food on the floor. It was horrendous.
Wife has severe mental illness and hasn’t let husband in bedroom for 7 years.
18 year old high school senior girl lives there, too.
I got there on the second day of cleaning so apparently “the worst was behind us”. I could only get myself to stay for an hour before I just had to get out of there.
Problem is that our saintly RS President is trying to tackle this herself with volunteers from the ward. One person spent 3 hours washing the bathroom walls with bleach. Priesthood were hauling stuff out to a trailer to take to the dump.
Bishop is out of town. They have sent him pictures so he can decide what to do First counselor in the bishopric helped yesterday but didn’t put a stop to it. RS president says there is no one else to do it.
An experienced social worker in our ward went over there yesterday and said the house should be reported and condemned immediately. But the RS president feels so sorry for the guy and his wife who now has no small bowel and has to be tube fed till she dies. Doesn’t want them to be mad at the church for reporting them.
What should be done?
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16 hours ago, Anddenex said:
Your son though isn't a child learning how to tie his shoes. He is going through medical school.
I am sorry carlimac, the decision of your son must bring heartache and tears at times (I would think), and the desire to love and protect him is always the state of a loving mother.
Yes and he's at the end of his 2nd year and studying for his first STEP exam.(otherwise known as boards ) He's consumed with studying the human body right now and hoping to pass so he can continue on to hospital rotations. The fact that he is even thinking about how religion and science are related right now is something of a miracle. Also he says he has already given the whole thing lots and lots of his time and pondering throughout undergrad at BYU and during his mission. He doesn't think studying it all again would change his mind. I think that's true unless he drops some of his intellectual thinking and allows the spirit to teach him.
Yes it's heartbreaking. But at least he's not a criminal on drugs or in prison. There are worse places he could be. He's a very loving and compassionate person trying his best to do good things in the world.
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21 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:
Irrelevant. God doesn't ask us to be the same.
Which supports my point.
Actually no one can.
That isn't relevant to the counsel to get in gear and do the work.
Here's where it fails: If we are trying and learning and doing our best but never quite get the hang of tying our shoes, do you believe that we are damned? Does God judge us on our ability to tie shoes, or on our efforts to try and tie shoes?
Pres. Nelson told us to get to work learning how to tie our shoes. Nothing more.
It may fail in your mind but works perfectly in mine. Sorry.
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2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:
Why not?
This example would work if spiritual work equated analogously to learning to tie one's shoes or such things. I don't think that analogy works very well.
The spiritual work isn't above anyone's abilities. It is a plain matter of choice.
I don't see any reason why we cannot hurry to choose and do something we are all capable of.
How we come to Christ is a simple truth that is the same for all. It is not based on our intelligence, strength, skill, or any such thing. It is merely our willingness. Nothing more or less.
Because not everyone is the same. I think the Lord knows everyone well enough that they will be judged according to their abilities to comprehend. Not everyone can change their lives, their mindset, their hearts instantaneously.
I think the example works well. I understand my son and what he has gone through and why he had ended up where he is. Even if he were willing and wanted to change immediately, he has some things that would take some re-learning, re- orienting and a whole lot of study and prayer. Having someone standing over him telling him time is running out isn’t going to make him do all that faster or more willingly. It only increases anxiety.
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“Time is running out” didn’t startle me personally. It just sounded like more of the same caution we get every Conference to put our lives and houses in order.
My son’s explanation of why he had a negative reaction was that he felt hurried or pushed by it. If a person is really going to “do the spiritual work” to find out for themselves, it’s not something that can be hurried for everyone.
Remember being a small child perhaps trying to tie your shoe or some other task that took a great amount of concentration to be ready so the whole family could go somewhere? And your parent was scolding you, saying “hurry up”-trying to push you faster than you could do it? The frustration? The feeling that you just couldn’t keep up? That intimidation? I think that’s the feeling he got when he heard it. Perhaps a tinge of impatience rather than loving encouragement.
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In one of his Conference talks he said, " Now, as President of His Church, I plead with you who have distanced yourselves from the Church and with you who have not yet really sought to know that the Savior’s Church has been restored. Do the spiritual work to find out for yourselves, and please do it now. Time is running out."
I put the whole paragraph in there for context but I doubt anyone has forgotten that last part that I bolded.
One of my daughter's Young Women advisors mentioned it in a lesson and went on and on saying things like that apocalypse has already started and we are on a sinking ship on this earth, etc, etc. On the other hand I have a child who reminded me that Elder Packer ( I believe) said not that many years ago that the youth of the church can count on having long lives on this earth- of seeing their children and grandchildren grow to adulthood. So...hmmm.
Another take on this. My son who claims to be agnostic and has been inactive for a couple years feels Pres. Nelson's statement was meant to intimidate. ( Backstory- this son is in medical school and has great respect for President Nelson, but he didn't like how this came across. He didn't hear it himself but his older sister shared it with him. ) He said it undermined the invitation to do the spiritual work to find out. That it was meant to scare rather than to encourage.
What does anyone else think was behind that statement?
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Just now, Vort said:
Anyone who takes even 10% of those "Honor Code stories" at face value should have their voting privileges removed until they go through puberty. Almost all of the "stories" are just that—unbelievable (literally), falling somewhere between eye-rolling and outrageous.
I would love to see a counter-sit-in of people there to defend BYU and the Honor Code.
In reading some of the comments on the KSL story ( I broke my resolution to quit reading comments) there are some bleeding hearts saying it's because they love BYU so much that they want the Honor Code office to either go away or start acting more Christlike when they call students in. Hmm.😵
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13 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:
There's another side of me that thinks it would be hilarious to get a group of people together to shout-sing "Praise to the Man" at the top of their lungs during said moment of silence.
And...double devil:
😈
Yeah, not sure what the moment of silence for LGBTs has to do with the Honor Code Office.
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It seems to all have stemmed from the Instagram account @honorcodestories where students and some alumni are telling their horror stories about being snitched on and the Honor Code office calling them in. My response would be , "If you were following the code then there would be no need for anyone to snitch on you. If you are falsely accused then a call from the Honor Code office shouldn't be a threat." If they aren't guilty, there is nothing to worry about. If they have broken the honor code, then maybe they need to re-think their choices and actions.
The problem I'm seeing is that they are taking offense to someone else reporting them and they don't like getting caught. They think students should be "self reporting". Like that's going to happen? 🤣
I think the environment that encourages snitching is a little obnoxious and promotes this whole "judgemental" thing we Latter Day Saints have a probelm with. But what would you do if your roommate was in your room alone with her boyfriend or girlfriend for an extended period of time? What would you do? Keep quiet? Talk to the bishop? Report her/him to the HCO? Or maybe talk to your roommate and tell them how uncomfortable you are with it. If it persists after that, I'd report it.
- Backroads and Just_A_Guy
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I roll my eyes at the demands of these youngsters. I hope the Honor Code stands firm. Perhaps the tattlers need some talking to. But these protesters seem ignorant of the fact that if BYU were to implement a "No Kissing on Campus" rule, they would have every right because they are a private university and can make their own rules. The ones that don't like it should go elsewhere and let the ones who will happily comply take their place.
And why was there a need for a moment of silence to honor LGBTs???
- Just_A_Guy, scottyg, Anddenex and 1 other
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3 minutes ago, Scott said:
I'd have to respectfully disagree with you. Immoral heterosexual activity is all over out there. It gets a huge amount of spotlight shown on it. It's all over the news, TV shows, movies, internet, magazines, etc., etc.
I don't think that everyone (especially outside the Church) agrees that immoral heterosexual activity (even adultery) is bad, but I do see what you are saying. People don't have "adultery parade pride" parades for example.
I edited it above to mean immoral heterosexual behavior that even the world agrees is wrong- having sex with someone other than the person you are committed to -whether officially married or not. Unless you are part of some obscure tribe on a hidden island, all culture condemns unfaithfulness in sex. ( UNLESS you're part of the swinger crowd.) Most people who are involved in adultery try extremely hard to keep it hidden.
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39 minutes ago, Scott said:
OK, lets stop here and have a serious and hopefully meaningful discussion. For the purpose of this question, let's leave politics completely out of it so we can stay on topic.
Why do immoral behaviors of heterosexuals often generate less discussion (not only in our Church, but elsewhere) than the immoral behavior of homosexuals?
So why shouldn't heterosexual immorality be at least as controversial and serious as homosexuality? I say that it should be.
Some ideas: Immoral heterosexual behavior is most often kept in the dark.Meaning, if it's going on and it shouldn't be- as in the case of adultery) it doesn't get talked about till someone finds out. But homosexual immoraity get's a HUGE amount of light shown on it. It's out there! According to society It's nothing to hide anymore.
Heterosexual immoral behavior, (especially adultery) is bad- no question. We all agree on that. Nothing to argue about. We know and understand that the world disagrees with our morality and there isn't much new to discuss. ( Frankly Trumps indiscretions are boring. Now if Mitt Romney had had affairs, you can bet this forum would be a-buzz!!) ) But with homosexual immoraity, some of us think it's bad. Others don't. Hence there is more controversy- more intrigue. More to debate about. More stuff to try to get our heads around. Heterosexual immorality after marriage isn't ever justified by any church member and even by most of the world. Homosexual behavior is justified by many people, even within the church.
Speaking for my generation- heterosexual immoral behavior has been around since we first learned about sex in the elementary school years, or shortly thereafter. It's been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseum! Not that we have become complacent about it. It's still wrong but we "get it" and why it happens and there is nothing more to learn about it. But homosexual behavior is basically still blowing us away, even after 35-40 years of it creeping more and more into the world around us. We don't "get it". It's still very very confusing! I remember in my 20's finding out that a friend was gay and that he actually had very high hopes of marrying his "boyfriend" some day. I was floored and laughed out loud. ( not in his presence) It was preposterous! but the unthinkable has happened. And it still makes as much sense to me now as it did then. Zero!
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On 4/10/2019 at 5:44 PM, wenglund said:
The Church has frowned significantly on the notion of coed housing, and even went to court over the matter in relation to BYU, though I don't know what disciplinary issues there are absent immoral activity.
While at BYU, I lived on one side of a duplex with men, and on the other side there were women. The duplex was disqualified as approved BYU housing because of males and females "living under the same roof," though my Bishop didn't have a problem with it. I don't know if the same would hold were men and women living on the same side of the duplex.
It would be interesting to find out. Either way, it is a move away from simplicity and order and towards chaos. The Jews attempted to avoid the potential chaotic forces of immorality creep by "building a wall around the Torah."
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
I had a friend who ended up marrying her roommate from a time when they were both Washington DC interns. There were other men and women living in the house with them. I don't recall that they had to "repent" of anything before being married in the temple. They got married a week before I did so we compared notes on everything.
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4 hours ago, MarginOfError said:
It isn't just you.
There were two things that helped me come to terms with and learn to live with the many (many, many) doubts I have about the Church, its doctrines, teachings, and with religion in general. ...
I don't have a problem with the practice of religion changing over time. And I don't feel a need to retrofit everything we believe into past scripture. Doing so is neither practical nor realistic. If you don't feel like it works for you, then stop doing it.
But the repurcussions of that 👆 are so dire. It's not that easy to just quit what you've grown up doing and believing, especially when people like Elder Ballard continually remind us to stay in the boat. Oh the guilt! It's fairly easy for me to not go to the temple right now because since our local temple is closed for renovation it's currently it's a 3-4 hour drive and an all day event to go. And life is chaotic with non-driving teenagers schedule.s So I'm in the middle of a two year or so time period of infrequent temple attendance for me to reevaluate what I believe and try to get my head around temple participation again- And what it all means-( truthfully my biggest struggle with church teachings right now). But every time someone in my ward talks about their frequent treks up to the temple, it's like a gut punch! And I hear a voice in my head telling me I'm not righteous enough or willing enough to sacrifice my time to go. I don't know what to do about that.
How do you just "stop doing it"??
For what it's worth, my son did. He now lives in a city with a fairly new temple and could go all the time. Except that he stepped out of the boat with no intention of getting back in anytime soon. BUT he is living in a city alone with no family members nearby to be "bugged by" ( for lack of a better description). He's free so live as he wants without any remorse ( or so he says). I honestly don't know how one does that, especially when it's a multi-generational tradition, Pioneer ancestry and all that.
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On 4/8/2019 at 1:59 PM, LiterateParakeet said:
There is speculation that the Seattle temple will have a long shut down...like 3 years....to do some much needed repairs, so Moses Lake could take some of that spillover???
This would make sense. We attended the Seattle temple last month when we were in town visiting a new grand baby. It was so hard to find our way around and very few temple workers to help direct us. Very odd experience. Yes, it needs to be re-done!
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the Moses Lake Temple announcement. It's only 75 miles/90 min from the Kennewick temple. Are there that many members in the Moses Lake area?
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Seems like the Lord was encouraging the leadership to keep it to a minimum this time. Let the bishops catch up. Or maybe they knew the one change (aside from new temples) would be all the membership could handle this time around.
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40 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:
The prophet lovingly telling us that time is running out and to repent and draw closer to Christ now. I felt a special dose of the Holy Spirit when he said that abd felt a renewed desire to make sure my family and I are ready for the Second Coming, no matter what sode of the veil I'm on when it happens.
I wish I could do that but because of agency, at least one of my family has chosen to not be there. A couple others are fence sitters. I can bear testimony, but I can’t “make sure” of anyone’s readiness but my own. And that is a pretty big project itself at the moment.
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He may have been referring to the recent changes in the endowment ceremony.
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The whole of Sat am and pm sessions. Just really good gospel basics without any jarring changes sprung on us. Sigh of relief!! I suppose that might change tomorrow.
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1 hour ago, Suzie said:
@Just_A_Guy I am one of those who are dancing along with @MarginOfError for the change because I didn't agree with the policy. However, as a former journalist, the Church needs to fire quite a few people. Seriously.
What did the journalists do wrong?
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2 hours ago, Maureen said:
But they're so pretty and nice to look at. 😊
M.
Wish they were in my house! I’m badly in need of bookcases. One think lacking in this house we bought. 😣
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14 minutes ago, unixknight said:
Oh look. The most busted name in news wrote an article with a bunch of factual errors, distortions and a negative spin. How shall I ever contain my shock?
Yes but there are some who take CNN as the gospel truth and will be badly misinformed. SMH!!
Here’s a tough one!!
in LDS Gospel Discussion
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I did!!