jayanna

While resurrection is a priesthood ordinance, Jesus could not perform an ordinance on Himself... for example: He did not baptize Himself, He did not give Himself the priesthood One of the reasons He was begotten was because He would then not be limited by the 'ye shall surely die' curse that was put on Adam. He could then be resurrected by Himself. He did not have to redeem Himself from the fall. This is explained in Jesus the Christ written by James E. Talmage..."begotten by an immortal Sire He possessed as a heritage the power to withstand death indefinitely" (p. 21) John 10:17-18 "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again" John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself"

we are supposed to shine a light, not point a finger

You have answered your own question...WHEN do elders preside, when WHO is not present, when they have been authorized beforehand... Those are the conditions You are to 'watch over', not police, or judge, don't be that ice cream truck driver that writes the traffic ticket

OKay, while you do not have authority over them... If the other members in the ward approach you about it, do not discuss, complain, or speculate, send them immediately to the bishop. by the mouth of two or three witnesses. But remember, you do not have authority in any way, unless you have stewardship over them. You must keep taking the sacrament, it is still a true sacrament. My hubby shared with me an example of this from the N.T. Peter kept attending the temple, even after Jesus' resurrection, even when he KNEW they were doing it wrong...but he kept going, because it was still the house of the Lord, since He cleansed it, and Peter knew he would need to spend time in the Lord's house, to be near Him. Someone once told me they had a problem with me making the sacrament bread. Which is weird, because I didn't tell them I made it, they just asked around until they found out, I guess. I did it about 3 or 4 times a year. They said that it took away from the Lord, and put the focus on me. They said that I was trying to make a tradition of home-made bread for sacrament. Wow. I said that I was sorry if I gave the impression that I wanted the sacrament to be about me, and I assured the person I spoke to that it was always a very sacred experience for me to prepare the bread, and I only did it when I was prompted. The sacrament is about what you make it about, if you are focusing on Christ, it will be about Christ, if you are focusing on the guy in the third row that you don't think is worthy to take it, that's what it will be about. 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am anot as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18

My hubby and I were ward missionaries together. We had investigators over with the missionaries 2 sometimes 3 times a week. We learned a lot about the gospel as we prepared to answer their questions. The spirit was so strong in our home, and we got to fellowship and discuss gospel topics with others. You could talk to the ward mission leader and explain your situation. He would probably appreciate some members who are willing to open their home to others, or even go with the elders to the homes of the investigators. The new member retention is significantly better when members are involved, and you don't have to be called to help. And you can do that according to your schedule! We also took trips to the temple grounds, even before we could go in. Some of them have visitors centers you can visit. Getting a subscription to the Ensign is really nice, too. You can take it with you, I have even used it as a missionary opportunity. You can teach each other the lessons he has missed. You both can still have home/visit teaching assignments to fill. You can go to the family history center and either get your own family names ready, or if they are done, you can help with others' work. That way when you are ready for temple work, you have names ready to go. We have worked in the local soup kitchen a lot, it is a really great experience. My kids are reminded of the principle of gratitude.:) I have learned that once people find out you are willing to be saint all week long, you will soon find yourself so busy that you'll have trouble fitting it all in.

My bishop told me that everyone needs to be nourished by the good word, a friend, and a calling. You can tell him that you would like a calling, and then wait a while for one. He will need time to pray about it, and when the Lord says where the proper place for you is, the bishop will call you into his office and tell you :)

ooooo. I like that, thanks, I didn't know there was a 4th. That makes sense. When I think of all the needy, well, those more needy temporally than myself, anyway, I think of what a big job that is. Just think of millions of people all focusing their shared resources on one specific need at a time. That kind of direction can cause significant improvement in a short amount of time. We especially need that these days, with the world economy the way it is. See what I mean about growing? :) One of the signs of life... does it grow?

I am very sorry this has happened to you. I hope that it did not cause a huge rift between you and your spouse. I am the wife of a bishopric counselor, and I would like to share with you a couple of things I have learned about that role, as for us, anyway. My hubby has been specially trained not to deal with problems like the one you are describing, if it is an issue with sin, or temple worthiness, marriage problems, etc. he is supposed to immediately refer that person to the bishop. This can be hard for some people to understand, I had a hard time understanding this at first as well. People kind of expect him to know a lot of things that he just doesn't, he doesn't have a level of revelation except for what he is responsible for. In my hubby's case, it is the primary and the needs of the primary teachers/presidency, etc. He does do temple interviews, but again, if a problem arises, he sets up another interview for them with the bishop. I only know this b/c he was nervous about doing interviews when he was first called, then one day someone had mention that he had interviewed several people. I didn't know that he had, so I asked him if he was doing okay at it, he said he was doing great considering if there is ever a problem, he sends them on over to the next office, and then does his best to forget what the problem was. They do discuss issues with welfare, and missionary work, priesthood preparation, and things like that...to coordinate helps for members, and often the secretary is in some meetings for notes, etc. I know that my hubby does not discuss personal problems between married couples and such, unless I'm really about to put my foot in it, b/c one time I was organizing a reception for a family that was getting sealed. I was planning to ask a lovely, young married sis. to sing a certain song for the event, and not take no for an answer. (I am a little pushy) and he stopped me...he told me that it would not be a good idea just then. He didn't say why, and I didn't ask, I didn't tell anyone, but I just figured that it would be insensitive for some reason. She did not come to the reception at all, which made me worry a little, she is usually such a sweet, open, friendly person. A couple of months later she shared test. of the troubles they had had recently and how they overcame them with the Lord's help...I was so glad that he had stopped me from making her feel worse. I know how hard it is to see someone talk about getting sealed when you feel like you can't be with someone for eternity, it always made me cry, too. I am sure that they wanted to help you, but they did the wrong thing. I hope you can forgive them, and please tell the bishop what happened and how you feel about it. He can't fix it if he doesn't know what happened. I know he cares about you, please be patient. Maybe you could just explain to your wife that you just want to make your marriage better, and ask if you could see the bishop together sometime. Please let us know how things go.

I first think of the three-fold mission of the church. redeem the dead...through Jesus Christ, my religion reaches beyond the grave to help others be free from their sins, where else in this world can we find that? proclaim the gospel...not only does it help me, thru Christ I can help others be free from the bad things that they have done and want to let go of. perfect the saints...you grow. If you are following a belief system that is dead (it does not increase, it is stagnant, it is based on concrete morals that do not expand over time) you cannot become more than what your belief system encompasses. This is where you can go to receive remission of your sins. As great and wonderful as a good moral system can be, it can't get rid of your past, you cannot be washed free of it. Only Jesus can do that, only the true priesthood has the authority from Jesus to do that. For those that read this and would like an example from the scriptures, Nephi taught his people about Jesus Christ, not so they could get rewards, but so they knew where to look for the remission of their sins.(2Ne 25:26) Imagine being clean, all the way through. All those things you wish you had not done, wish you could make up for and feel good about, those can be washed away. Maybe not the consequences, but the dirty feeling....gone.

I kind of think of it like when I go to visit my parents. I have a spouse, like they do. I have children, like they do. I have a job, like they do. I have everything they have, But my dad is still my dad. My mom is still my mom. They don't stop being parents, just because I am one. If he says, "hey, don't do that in my house," I don't do it. If they tell me I should pay more attention to something, I pay more attention to it. Meaning, I still respect them and love them and learn from them, but I have everything they have and I'm big just like them. Great question :)

I think that if you make a covenant, and break it, you are much worse off than if you had never made that covenant in the first place. Those that make that covenant, and the WoW is a covenant, and then break it, are not only doing something bad for them, but will be held accountable on judgement day for not keeping the covenant. A covenant is when the Lord says 'if you do x then I will promise you XYZ'. Not 'allowing' someone to get baptized or go to the temple is not a church leaders way of saying 'you're not good enough' it's their way of protecting you from committing something that is much worse...that is, making covenants that you are not yet able to keep. Sending you to get your endowments and making certain covenants while you are addicted would be setting you up to fail. For example, expecting a vow of chastity when you are obviously addicted to sx. First get rid of the addiction, then be ready to accept the covenant. That's why our leaders have so many ways to help poeple recover from addictions. They don't want you to have that addiction, but until you are ready to let it go, they can't help you. You have to have Godly sorrow before you are ready to start the road to recovery. Those church members/temple recommend holders who break the law of health will be held accountable. Not only are they not keeping their temple, they are breaking a covenant, and being a bad example for their children, etc. They will be held accountable for it, if they do not repent. The three fold mission of the church does not include 'enforcing' God's laws, or policing them. Ex. is usually done to protect others from following harmful teachings/behaviors. Our church leaders are here to help us prepare, to lift, to inspire, to serve, not to punish. They want to make sure that when we make a covenant, that we are fully prepared to keep it.:)

I kind of agree with gabelpa, were your sins about them? For example, did you gossip about them? or steal from them? Confession is about counseling with an authorized church leader, to help you repent. There is nothing that suggests that you are required to confess to people who love you, or people who could be disappointed in you, even a spouse, if they are not involved in any way. Part of the repentence process is trying to rectify the consequences of sins we have committed, like paying someone for something we stole/broke that belonged to them; or, repairing someone's reputation after we have tried to soil it. However, if it does not involve them, it is not only not neccessary to share it with them, it can be taking the atonement for granted...expecting forgiveness from God to be given to you through forgiveness from your family, instead of through Christ's atonement. If they can forgive you, then will you be more able to forgive yourself? Why would that weigh less than the sacrament's cleansing power? You are about to go on a mission, There is an entire section of the Preach My Gospel manual on this very subject. It discusses talking about your sins with others...it also describes the steps of repentence and how to know if you are doing it right. It is lesson #3. Happy reading! Even after you read it, if you are still troubled, talk with your bishop, tell him what problems you are having, and ask him if it is necessary for you to share them with your family. Trust me, he wants you to go on your mission fully prepared to do the Lord's work. I have a feeling that you might be experiencing this to better prepare yourself to help those you teach on your mission. This is literally one of the steps to prepare for baptism.

34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created. D&C 29:34 from the teachings of Brigham Young: With God, and also with those who understand the principles of life and salvation, the Priesthood, the oracles of truth and the gifts and callings of God to the children of men, there is no difference in spiritual and temporal labors—all are one. If I am in the line of my duty, I am doing the will of God, whether I am preaching; praying, laboring with my hands for an honorable support; whether I am in the field, mechanic’s shop, or following mercantile business, or wherever duty calls, I am serving God as much in one place as another; and so it is with all, each in his place, turn and time (DBY, 8). In the mind of God there is no such a thing as dividing spiritual from temporal, or temporal from spiritual; for they are one in the Lord [see D&C 29:34–35] (DBY, 13). Anything that pertains to the building up of the Lord’s kingdom on earth, whether it be in preaching the Gospel or building temples to his name, we have been taught to consider a spiritual work, though it evidently requires the strength of the natural body to perform it (DBY, 13). We cannot even enter the temple when it is built, and perform those ordinances which lead to spiritual blessings, without performing a temporal labor. Temporal ordinances must be performed to secure the spiritual blessings the Great Supreme has in store for his faithful children. Every act is first a temporal act. The Apostle says, faith comes by hearing [see Romans 10:17]. What should be heard to produce faith? The preaching of the Word. For that we must have a preacher; and he is not an invisible spirit, but a temporal, ordinary man like ourselves, and subject to the same regulations and rules of life. To preach the Gospel is a temporal labor, and to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the result of a temporal labor. To be baptized is a temporal labor, both to the person administered to and the administrator. I am a living witness to the truth of this statement, for I have made my feet sore many a time, and tired myself out traveling and preaching, that by hearing the Gospel the people might have faith. The blessings we so earnestly desire will come to us by performing the manual labor required, and thus preparing all things necessary to receive the invisible blessings Jehovah has for his children (DBY, 13–14). Pres. Young says that baptism is temporal, which it is, even for the dead, those endowments and sealings we do in the temple are temporal, even for the dead....but they effect our spirits for eternity. They have to be performed temporally, seen and recorded temporally, or they are not in effect eternally. They have to be accepted by the participants spiritually as well, both temporal and spiritual have to be present to be fully acceptable to the Lord. the destrying angel spoken of in D&C 89 is not just killing people with temporal death, it is destroying with a spiritual death, as explained: The Lord promises us that we “shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures” (D&C 89:19). We will be taught important truths by the Holy Ghost through revelation. The Lord also promises that the destroying angel shall pass us by. Elder Spencer W. Kimball said that in our time this means we will be saved from spiritual death: “For observing the Word of Wisdom the reward is life, not only prolonged mortal life but life eternal” (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 211). Lastly there are other temporal laws that have an effect on us spiritually, the law of chastity and the law of tithing being two of them.

The temporal welfare of our bodies is effected by taking in bad things, like tobacco. The part that effects our eternal welfare is in: 1.addiction, that is, reaching out for anything besides the Lord to comfort us, or direct our emotional states. 2. Denying the Holy Ghost...houseroom. The word of wisdom also promises great treasures of knowledge. We cannot have these great treasures of knowledge while jonesing for crack .“Know ye not,” Paul wrote, “that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you … ?” (1 Cor. 6:19). If the Lord will not dwell in unclean temples, then neither will the Holy Ghost. 3. the things we do to continue these habits...stealing money to obtain cocaine, poisoning our children with cigarette smoke, using money that the Lord has provided for us on something that passes away... 4. When we have something that we are not willing to give up for the Lord, it is a treaure to us, a treasure that we cling to, even though it will not be available to us after we die. That idea that something besides God will make us feel better is not good because Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful acrisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. Alma 34:34. whatever spirit possesses our bodies here will still possess our bodies later. and The Word of Wisdom has another promise that “I … give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them” (D&C 89:21). That is a remarkable promise. Can you imagine a 2-year-old eating cigarette butts? I can b/c I've seen it. He was addicted at birth. His mother's milk had nicotine in it. Do you think that is pleasing to the Lord? I don't. I'm thinking He is at least as disgusted by it as I am. Do you think the Lord loves that child? I do. Do you think He loves any of us any less? I don't. What a person eats doesn't defile them? Tell that to Adam and Eve. Some of these things, and much more are explained by an apostle, Boyd K. Packer, in The Word of Wisdom: the Principle and the Practices 1996.

So when I am resurrected, my past buffness will be restored. Yeah! I KNEW it!

Welcome to the forum! Keep praying and reading. It was hard for me too, at first. :)

Well, I took it the first time long before I learned anything about the gospel. I mean I was even questioning the divinity of Christ...but learned, and I joined the church, remarried, got sealed, still INTJ,

OKay, I have a question about the remarriage thing in denominations... Is repentance considered a taking away of the sin repented of? If someone say, repents of marrying the wrong person, is that repentance not viewed as complete? For example, if someone is married and divorced, then they are baptized...is that sin washed away, and they are then free to remarry?

INTJ for like, fifteen years now. Tested the same both times. Thought I had changed, guess not. INTJ all the way.

Actually, without the Melc. priesthood the men were unable to go the temple and be sealed to their families. Their rejoicing when the priesthood was made available wasn't just because they wanted to have the priesthood for the priesthood's sake, or even that they were worried about being socially considered to be equal...they were finally able to attend the temple, and be sealed to their families for time and all eternity. While I don't understand why it took so long, it does testify to me of their great faith in the Lord, that they held to the rod, even when He wasn't giving them what they righteously desired. Like when Jacob wrestled all night (Gen. 32:24), the night before he was to meet his brother, Esau, and possibly have an altercation with him. He wrestled, and wrestled, even when his leg was dislocated, he wrestled. He was shown his own strength, and was blessed. He was then named Israel. These great, faithful people, had to wrestle, learned their strength, and were blessed. I wonder if my faith would hold up under such circumstances.

Thank you for reading, and thinking about my post. I have read yours also, and while I disagree with you, I want you to know that I can understand now why you believe what you do about the restoration. I want you to know that I love the Bible, and I love my Savior, Jesus Christ, and I know you love him too! I have also found the Book of Mormon to be another testament of Jesus Christ, and I have learned about the same gospel that He taught to others, that were on another part of the Earth. He taught them many good things, about baptism, and sacrament, (or what some call communion), He named apostles, He healed the sick, and taught them to love and serve each other. I know that when I read the Savior's words, they comfort me and help me to be a better disciple. We might disagree on some of our views, but I know a fellow Christian when I read one. :) There is so much that we have all yet to understand, I wonder sometimes, if after it is all done, we might look back from the heavens and giggle at ourselves.

Soninme, I was wondering if you read my last post and what you though of it? thanks,

I have heart disease, so I can understand your worry. While mine has nothing to do with my diet, I still keep an eye on what I eat. My stake pres. gave a really excellent lesson last Sun. that I find to be true, and might help you here. There are two sins that are 'unforgivable' according to the scriptures. The are 1 to testify against the Holy Ghost and 2. murder in innocent blood. Yet, when people have broken away from the church, and have testified against it, they are welcomed back. Also, when people have abortions, they can be forgiven. This might seem to be contradictory. How do we rectify what might seem to be an inconsistency? The answer is this...there is a condition...they are judged according to what they KNOW. They do not truly know what they do at the time of their sin. Therefore, all the sins we commit here are in fact repentable. Maybe your father, though he has been told by family members, has not had a verification from God, that eating in this unhealthy way is a sin. I am sure that once he understands this to be true, he can and will stop. Remember, that through Christ, we can overcome anything that the adversary throws at us. The Lord has decided that if you smoke or drink coffee, that you are addicted to something that is bad for you, and He will not consider you ready to enter into His house. We do not get to decide what sins are worse than others. We can only do the best we can, and encourage others to do so as well. I think it would be a good idea for you to get a comfort blessing, from your dad, or home teacher, etc. The Lord loves you and your father. He wants what is best for you, seek His direction in what you should do.