Backroads

Shepard:
 
I'm sorry to say that you've not handled this situation productively at all--even if this girl is just a scheming manipulator (and heaven help you all if she's actually right and the bishop really is a pedophile).
 
Family therapy, my friend.  ASAP.

Of course, there's no proof OP is a troll, but I think we're being taken on a ride :) Like I said, had that feeling from the get-go but felt strongly enough to respond concerning bishops interviewing underage kids on certain sensitive issues.

To be clear, I sincerely and ferverently believe we should be Christ-like to all.  In no way do I support bullying a gay child (In no way do I support bullying!)
 
But when your Church membership becomes more about your soapbox statement than your faith, you've lost focus.

There may be a bit more to their decision to remain affiliated with the Church, but when people are repeatedly declaring something as their Most Significant Reason... what am I to do but take them at face value?  It would be disrespectful to assume their speech and thoughts aren't aligned. 
 
Sure, they might have a testimony, but based on what I'm finding their testimonies and faith are the furthest thing from their focus right now. 

Okay...
 
Still not supporting a lot of your daughter's actions.
 
Also not agreeing with a lot of your bishop's comments.
 
Get the stake president involved pronto.

I am not worked up with either phrase.....you either do or you don't. If the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet it all falls into place. You can either believe it or you might know it. All I want to know is regardless of which phrase you use....I want to know how you found out.

As a new missionary in the LTM (Language Training Mission, now the MTC), I was learning the discussions and came to where we testify to the investigator: "I testify to you in the name of Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ and God the Father".  I had to stop and think, could I actually testify in the name of Christ to the truthfulness of the Joseph Smith vision and other aspects of the Gospel?  This was serious.  I couldn't just spout off the words if I didn't actually know if they were true.  To me, testifying in the name of Jesus Christ meant more than just belief.  It meant, I needed to know!  And, I needed more than just the faith and belief that I had.  Had I in the past had a strong spiritual witness of the truthfulness of what I was about to teach investigators?  And, I couldn't think of any.  At the time I was relying on belief and faith.
 
I got down on my knees and prayed for a strong spiritual witness.  I explained to Father in Heaven that if I was going to testify in the name of Christ to His investigators, that I needed more than belief and faith.  I needed to know.  It took more than one prayer.  It took a lot of tears and humility on my part.  But, I got my spiritual witness.  To this day I cannot deny that witness.  And, I was able to go out into the mission field with more than faith and belief.  I was able to go out in the field with knowledge.  I was able to testify in the name of Jesus Christ of the truthfulness of the Gospel, and of the truthfulness of Joseph Smith's vision.
 
For those who have never received a spiritual witness from the Holy Ghost, they may never understand how one can say "I know".  But, if you have received that witness, then you understand and it's undeniable.

It's not a mystery to me where he's coming from. I get it. "Know" and "believe" are different words with differing meanings, despite, the common misuse with interchanging them.
Saying that though, I also understand where people are coming from when they use both words interchangeably. For instance, I know God loves me just as I know my husband loves me. Can I "prove" it? Not really, other than I can FEEL his unconditional love through his actions, which gives me a sense of "knowing" it's something real and not just wishful thinking. The same could be said about God. I can't prove He's real but I have felt His grace, blessings, and warmth - I might say I "know" His presence is very real.

Joseph Smith saw a vision of God the Father, and Jesus Christ.  This was clearly a profound and spiritual event for him.  When he told others about it he was derided and told it was impossible.  There was no way he could prove such an event...  But his response was that he knew it and that he knew that god knew that he knew it.
 
Do people sometimes overstate what they believe and hope for as knowledge?  Sure.  But at the same time it is very possible for people to have such a profound spiritual witness that it is correct for them to say, "I know"
 
For those of us looking from the outside we simply can not tell the difference barring a spiritual confirmation of their word

Am I the only one who finds this story a bit over the top as it goes on? Seems someone's getting played and maybe not the bishop

I would ask in return, what harm does it do to use the wording "I know" when you only literally "believe"? From a certain perspective, we know nothing. Everything we experience could be false. We only believe very strongly because of the consistency and power of our experiences. So how is testimony any different?

We can know, but for others it may be more complicated. It's ok to just believe. One thing I've noticed in my soon to be nine months as a member of the Church is that there is this tendency to use the word "know" a lot, in testimony meetings, at the end of lessons, missionary lessons. Very rarely do I ever head the word believe. I'm not saying that it's wrong, I'm just stating my observations. Now, what he might mean is that for some, they can't say they "know" but they can say, I believe. As a personal example, in something I really never shared, I can say I know that God exists and I know Jesus Christ is the Son of God and our savior, but honestly, I believe in heaven, I believe in the afterlife. I can't say I know. When I was baptized, I believed the Church to be true. I now know the Church to be true.
 
Using the word know may be off putting to those who don't know (through no fault of their own) or are going through faith struggles. Or those who are cynical can say, "Yeah, right, you 'know.'" Though these are not good reasons to say we can't use "know." But then again, for those who do only believe but don't know, if you are surrounded by people who only say they "know" and not believe, it can make you feel as if something is wrong.
 
We just have to say that it's ok, and just as valid, to get up there on the first Sunday of the month and say "I believe" because for some, that's where they are.

I don't agree with him telling others what they should stop saying. Having said that, I understand what he probably tried to say. A lot of people in Church when sharing their testimonies use the terms "believe" and "know" as the same and they are surely not the same.

To be clear, I sincerely and ferverently believe we should be Christ-like to all.  In no way do I support bullying a gay child (In no way do I support bullying!)
 
But when your Church membership becomes more about your soapbox statement than your faith, you've lost focus.

So says the mother. I tend to discount sob stories of this nature as a bit too one-sided. Get a pod-cast of the other parties involved and we might get a very different story.
 
 
The first is just plain stupid and does not require LGBT advocacy to change but simple common sense and righteousness. The second is a legitimate concern (with the removal of the word "demanding" which is never our place as to ward management) based on his clearly messed-up ideologies concerning the issue. I would be concerned about these folks being leaders over my youth as well. Regardless, advocating for LGBT Mormons is not required to persuade others to be good Christians.
 
 
Hurtful, judgmental actions, once more, according to them. According to the gay community everything religion does and says about homosexuality is hurtful and judgmental. Whereas I'm sure there are clear moments of inappropriate hurt and judgment, my guess is that a large portion of what is being viewed as hurtful and judgmental is nothing more than people standing for righteous principles, which is in turn viewed as hateful and judgmental by those on the other side of the issue. I am unwilling to take the so-called "abused" gay's word as the end-all in these cases. 
 
Here is the message of "love" coming from the top, including a clear warning against condoning sin and against advocacy for it in any regard.
 

We had a problem getting our oldest daughter to sleep in her bed.  We were exhausted and out of options.  We had tried everything.  One night she came into our room (she was almost 3) and I just felt like groaning.  Then I had a burst of inspiration.  I told her that Daddy was going to fart really loud and it was going to smell.  I also told her that after Daddy farted we would start picking each other's noses.  She looked at me like we were crazy, turned around and went back to her own bed.  She never slept with us again.  It was a gross thing to say, but it worked.

I think the line-upon-line, don't run faster than able, approach to fitness and eating is the right choice. It can be terribly difficult to jump cold-turkey head-first into a strict diet and exercise regime. Some personality types can. But for many, a long-term plan to get there over a set time is wise. I recommend always pushing yourself just past where you're comfortable. In doing so you will consistently improve.

I can't say that I'm any expert in Paleo. I have a friend, witch is more of the expert, that went Paleo to solve several health problems he was having. He had me read a book called The Paleo Solution and made a few comments and suggestions. After that I was on my own. This is some of the things I found.
 
First some of the Science
 
For me the easier things I have found to swallow(pardon the pun) was getting plenty of sleep and eating only when hungry.  Most people don't see sleep as a part of a diet. The Paleo Solution makes it clear that the hormone levels are a big part of our health. Getting plenty of sleep and eating right helps to regulate that. Parts of the Paleo also encouraged having close relationships with family and friends.
 
Most of the Paleo community don't seem to believe that "Being Paleo" means that they eat a lot of meat. It does cut the grains and legumes but it doesn't replace them with meat. In most places it seems to recommend a calorie content of 20-30% fruits and vegetables(carbs), about 20-30% protein, and the rest come from natural and healthy fats. A lot of people are scared of fats because they believe fat makes you fat witch makes sense but if you eat too much of any food it will make you fat. The big thing about fats and Paleo is that there are fats that our body can't make but needs to consume. A lot of these fats are best found in healthy meat and some go toward making things like the nervous system and parts of the brain.
 
In Paleo grains and legumes don't work with the body. First theory is that as grain goes into the intestine it seems to cut the intestine wall allowing undigested food, toxins, and bacteria into the blood stream. Second is that the protein chain in grains and legumes look similar to proteins in the body but shorter. If antibodies try to attack the grain or legume proteins they could inadvertently attack different proteins in the body as well. I have herd though that sourdough bread if prepared correctly can change this.
 
Now the Word of Wisdom
 
This is what it's all about the important stuff doing the right thing and following the commandants. Spiritual health is just as important to physical health as anything and following the word of wisdom is part of it. When Paleo was first given to me my friend gave me his prospective of the word of wisdom and had me read it again. This is what I found.
 
There is no question that fruits and vegetables are good. That part of it seems to be clear. I wold just like to point something out that is found in the foot notes of this part. (D&C 89:11). There is a foot note for prudence that refers to temperance in the topical guide. In the next verse sparingly has a foot note that refers to temperance in the topical guide. This got me to look up the definition of sparingly and its history. I found reference to frugality as in uses with the mind of conservation.
 
The meat is somewhat more difficult. (D&C 89:12-13). There is a comma that may be misplaced. If the comma is taken out it seems to reads differently, it has no fragment, and its a complete sentence.
 
Now the grain is more difficult but if you read it it seems to be straight forward. (D&C 89:14-15) The semicolon in thees verses is showing that you are meant to read the verses together. Grain can be used to maintain life, "to be the staff of life", and best "only in times of famine".

I watched through the youtube vid so I could knowledgeably comment on it. My opinion: Everything the family says therein is a lie, a half-truth, a twisting of truth, or a woeful misunderstanding of truth and doctrine.
 
This is Satan hard at work.

May I suggest that this may (and I emphasize "may") not be the best idea. Girl's camp can and should be a highly spiritual influence for good with a large focus on testimony building. Would it be appropriate to add in there: "Cancelled: church" as a punishment? Know what I mean?

Okay...
 
Still not supporting a lot of your daughter's actions.
 
Also not agreeing with a lot of your bishop's comments.
 
Get the stake president involved pronto.

Not only were their reasons poor, I just don't understand why they felt it necessary to even mention or justify their reasons for remaining LDS in the first place.
 
Where in our faith are we told anything other then to exercise Charity for our fellowmen? This was a lost opportunity to be an "advocate for change" in how these organizations view the Church and shred some of the stereotypes LDS suffer from.

There may be a bit more to their decision to remain affiliated with the Church, but when people are repeatedly declaring something as their Most Significant Reason... what am I to do but take them at face value?  It would be disrespectful to assume their speech and thoughts aren't aligned. 
 
Sure, they might have a testimony, but based on what I'm finding their testimonies and faith are the furthest thing from their focus right now. 

Hey if that was off the top of their head then her and her husband have wonder twin powers.
 
It was totally prepared.
 
Do you think a Mormon could receive an Ally Voice award and stand for traditional marriage? Me thinks not.

I've known people who join a religion (including LDS) because they want to change the things they think are "wrong" in that religion.
Makes absolutely no sense to me.