estradling75

I believe you meant me... As far as I can see JAG has not posted to this thread. Lets talk doctrine... Start with President Hunter, speaking in conference, holding the role as President and Prophet of the Church. ?Exceeding Great and Precious Promises? - general-conference I would like to point to about the 10th and 9th paragraph from the bottom this quote It would seem that President Hunter and the Stake President are on the same page. The difference that I see is the President Hunter used 'Gentleness' your Stake President is using 'Sharpness' And you are complaining of the sharpness. I would like to offer the suggestion that your Stake President might be finding himself in the same position as did Mormon in Moroni 9* I can't know this of course... I only offer it as a suggestion or idea. As to you question as to what can I use to point to say that the Temple Recommend will be used. I can not. However I have pointed out how our Doctrine can be open to the idea. But the biggest proof is coming from you own leader. A leader whom we take as an article of faith to be '...called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority,' By your own words he has been doing this for 2 years. So for two years his councilors and the High Council, who are given the rights to advise and council the Stake President. Have understood his plan, its doctrinal roots, and either agreed with it or worked/working to correct him. If I was in your Stake my first thought is that he is using Hyperbole as part of his attempt to reach the Hardened Heart. (not as an attempt to teach doctrine) Perhaps much like Jacob in the Book of Mormon, he would have preferred to use more gentle approach and can not. I would also realize that what he is asking of me is Doctrinally solid, and reasonably simple. I would do it. Knowing that I got the point. If it then turns out that my first thought of Hyperbole is correct then I have no loss because I got the point. But if it turns out that the Lord is/or chooses to sustain your Stake President in the matter of Asking about the Temple Recommend... well then I am prepared.

My wife and I both had issues with the other youth in the church while growing up... So I guess with our oldest just having returned from summer camp for the first time we were very aware of what could happen. (Ok we have always been watching but camp is different from the week to week meetings) We asked questions of our son and everyone else. We looked at all the pictures and anything else we could think of to find out how things went. Lucky for us all signs point to the idea that the camp was successful, and while the boys were boys (including ours) none appeared to cross the line (like morningstar's group did). I know that I would want to know if my kids were the ones misbehaving and hurting others. But beyond that as for advice I really don't have any... I just have an interest because one day my wife and I might find us in a similar situation

I would say that poorly expressed doctrine (and all we have are soundbites of the total teachings which means we don't have context which could clarify his meaning) is not the same as incorrect doctrine. I would think that the idea that if we become the kind of person who would neglect our temple recommend we will have a problem come judgement is sound doctrine. And it is also clear doctrine that the records of the church are going to play a role when judgement comes around. (Please note I said play a role, I know there are others factors as well.) Therefore it would seem that being asked about a recommend could be a very valid question, come judgement. We can quibble over details on if it would be the first or most important question... But I think that if we are being judge and we are asked about anything and we go 'uh oh' that whatever that question was... We will find it to be a most important question.

You can quibble of the Stake Presidents Doctrinal accuracy all you wish, but don't miss the main point. The Local priesthood leader is calling those that within his authority to repent and maintain their temple privileges... Which is totally in line with gospel and doctrine as presented by the prophets. There might be some issues in how he is trying to get that message through to the people. But I would highly advise anyone in this or similar situation to spend more time applying the message and less time trying to shoot the messenger over human weaknesses or other failings.

I'm going to take the opposite position.. The Stake President is in the position to teach, judge, give the will of god and otherwise meet the needs of the Stake. Not only that, he is required to do so with all diligence. He clearly sees a problem and is working with all diligence to counter it... Can you be sure that is not exactly what the Holy Spirit is prompting him to do? He has all the keys and authority to do so. He can make judgements and prophesies for the members of his stake. Now lets take the judgement of the heart vs holding a recommend at judgement. It is by our actions that the desires of our heart is made known (Speaking generally... There are exceptions were one can't, but in most cases we are responsible to translate our desires into action) If one is worthy, maintaining a current temple recommend is easy. If one lets it expire un-renewed, what does that say about the desires of ones heart, to one who has the keys to Judge? I am not in such a position, but I know for me it would mean I let the things of the world, and possibly even lesser things of the Church distract me from maintaining my ability to go into one of the most sacred places on earth. If I were to die in that state why would I expect to be able to go into the most sacred places in the heavens? Clearly there can be exceptions were one can't re-new... I am not talking about those... I am talking about the case were I fail to make happen because it wasn't important enough to me (either to remember or to get off my lazy butt to do it). If I were in such a state I would not be surprise to find the Stake President to be spot on.

Was the Widows mites to small to be bothered with? Mark 12:42

Seems to me that the business made a poor choice. Reasonable adjustments need to be made for religious beliefs but it seems to me that this was a poor implementation. Other people have suggested other possible ways... I don't know what might have been possible in this circumstance but it will be the business that pays for its choice. All though I have to wonder if some anti-religious or anti-Muslims agenda was at work? Such actions seem to be designed to people complaining about supporting someone else's belief (if even only indirectly)

That would make sense and logically follow... But please note... Make sense and logically follow is a far cry from revealed word... Which we are very much lacking in when it comes to the Holy Spirit's path and even Christ's path. We are very much speculating on how it is all going to unfold. Right now we really just need to have faith that it is all under control and makes total sense. We just don't have all the pieces or understanding now

Yes if you have a medical condition that can limit your areas of service. When you are ready to fill out your mission papers, there will be a medical section were you can and should disclose your medical status and needs. That disclosure will be taken in to account when they ponder your call to serve.

We also believe that baptism is essential for exaltation... While we have no record of Christ getting or being married, but the Bible is very clear on his baptism. Thus we use the reasons given the bible for Christ's baptism to extrapolate out to the other ordinances we consider necessary (like being sealed aka married) The bible teaches that he was baptized to "Fulfill all righteousness." While mortal there were things Christ needed to do or finish up. The biggest one was the Atonement itself... The taking upon himself all the sins of the world. The fact that he had yet to do so in Old Testament times didn't stop people from gaining forgiveness of their sins. They had to look forward in faith believing that it would happen and that was enough for the Premortal Jehovah (aka Christ) to forgive and apply the Atonement to them. Which Atonement had not happened yet, but they could act as if it already had. Clearly in Christ case there is plenty of evidence that he got to act on things he would do before he really did them. (According to LDS understanding) Therefore it is not that hard to see Christ acting in a Exalted capacity when he still needed to 'Fulfill all righteousness' in mortality. There was simply no doubt that he would do so when the time was right.

It started as an Old guy in a 'magic' box flying around time and space teaching his granddaughter history and science. Now it an Old guy in a 'magic' box flying around time and space teaching the power hungry that there are limits to much death and destruction they can cause, before someone more powerful then them comes and pulls the carpet out from under them and stops them. The first was family friendly for all ages... The second can be.. but they touch on deeper and some times darker themes, and can be scary. Thus parents need to use judgement on if their kids are ready for it.

Its kind of like asking how I know the bible contains the record of the Jews and the Book of Mormon contains the record of the Nephites. Its not a secret and I was educated from a young age on what they were. The main difference is in my time getting my hands on a copy for myself is really easy. In Lehi and Nephi's time copies were harder to get. Which was why they had to get their copy from Laban

Doctor Who - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia from the article The programme was originally intended to appeal to a family audience, as an educational program using time travel as a means to explore scientific ideas and famous moments in history.

If Dr. Who is not alright... then me, my wife, and my kids are all in trouble

I see a big difference between a humble preacher/pastor/minister who gets a stipend to meet their (and their family's) modest physical needs. And those that get up on TV(or the pulpit) and spend all (or a good part) about how their flock needs to send in money. I have no problem with the first, the second I see a priestcraft. The first I see as doing the will of God as best as they understand how (which is all we can do) the second is doing it for the love of money. These two are wildly different in motive and yet both can be called clergy.

Toby, A bishop is going to want to see sincere effort and desire to turn away from you prior path and sins. By coming back to church you are showing exactly this, he is going to be happy for you and want to help you continue to move forward. He will not throw unnecessary blocks in your way, he will help show you the path forward... Some blessing will take awhile to be restored, that is what the path forward is for. Go to your bishop and unburden yourself if you are carrying guilt. Tell him your basic story and answer the questions he asks. He will ask for what he needs to know and none of us here can promise you exactly what he will need to know, because it is not our place.

Depends on what kind of man you are talking about. If you are talking about a Natural Man then the odds drop greatly. Because the natural man will be biologically wired to be attracted to females that appear fertile, and being overweight can obscure or obstruct those biological markers. Then you have the Spiritual Man the one that is much closer to loving you like Christ loves you. All men will fall somewhere in the spectrum between the two. Your husband appears to be trending toward the Natural Man, many posters have shared their experience with the more Spiritual Man, hopefully you've seen the difference. Do note that in this life the Natural Man is to be controlled, but it not totally gone in the majority of cases, which is why there is advice to take reasonable steps (factoring health and ability) to remain attractive. I suspect that your husband is pretty far gone in the clutches of the natural man. This leads me to think that even if you magically overnight became everything he claims he wants he would simply find something else to degrade you with. So I wouldn't advise you to do anything for him. I would advise you to take steps to help you feel better about yourself... Because you can control that... You can't control him or his responses.

Then practice it... Show love, kindness, honesty, and tolerance toward people that have strongly disagreeing opinions then yourself. Don't jump on how wrong they are and try to get them to change. Be the change you seek

Traveler is hinting I the point that came to me while reading. How can Homosexually be a trait only developed through genetic evolution (aka passing from one generation to another)? When it make for a clear tendency of whoever gets the trait to not have offspring. By its very nature Homosexually should be deselected out of the gene pool in a very few generations, if that is what it was.

My wife and I pay ours together on the same tithing slip. One sum handling both of ours and most of the time she doesn't have anything to pay on.

You could also ask: Why Moses? Why Noah? Why any of the main figures in the Bible or Book of Mormon? The answer is going to be pretty much the same, Faith on the Individual's part and God's will/choice.

Which is what I was headed toward... And you also understand how men can corrupt, distort, and fake physical evidence. Which is why we in the Church are big believers of the promise given James 1:5 Once you get your answer from God about the Book of Mormon you have already figured out your next steps.

You are seriously over thinking this... And putting to much trust in your own arm of the flesh with trying to avoid falling into anyone else. By now I am sure the missionaries have given you a copy of the Book of Mormon. Take that for your evidence, take it to God as you study it. Between just you and him ask God if it is of him. This is putting your trust in God that he will answer and tell you personally the truth of matter of the Book of Mormon. Don't worry about anything else about the church until you get that answer. If you reach the answer of no it is not true then none of the other claims or actions of the church matter. If, however, after your studies and prayer between you and God you reach the answer of yes, you have not relied on the arm of the flesh. God has told you personally. Then at that point, the rest of the claims of the Church become much more likely, and you have already learned how to test the claims with God and get answers from him

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Thread Closed... Such debates are off topic in this subforum