Colirio

🤪 vig·i·lan·tism /ˌvijəˈlan(t)(ē)ˌizəm/ noun noun: vigilantism law enforcement undertaken without legal authority by a self-appointed group of people. Someone on an Internet forum speaking to how they wish the laws were different is not “advocating vigilantism.” Nobody in this thread has suggested that someone outside of a legal authority should take the law into their own hands. As nobody has “advocated vigilantism“ in this thread, perhaps you should do as you demanded earlier and quote it or apologize.

You misspelled “I-m s-o-r-r-y.”

Apology pre-accepted. 🙂

And to think you could have learned all this 12 years ago!

Howling for his blood? You referred to it as a lynching earlier. Vort referred to it as crucifixion. 🤨 Adopting the dramatic, liberal ways are we? Moving on... “”While the investigation sorts through the different versions of what took place by witnesses who were at the park, it is evident there was an overreach by our police officers,” the police department said.” This isn’t what we ‘think’ we know. This is what the police department publicly stated. ‘Innocent until proven guilty’ applies to the legal system, not my personal judgment of a man’s character. “Mooney said he refused to provide his identification when officers asked for it because he had not broken any law. "Well, they didn't like that idea. They then proceeded to make a threat against me saying, 'If you don't give us your identification, if you don't identify yourself, we're going to put you in handcuffs in front of your 6-year-old daughter.'" Mooney said officers handcuffed him and placed him in a patrol car for about 10 to 15 minutes while they phoned a supervisor for guidance.” What happened to Mooney’s opportunity to be innocent until proven guilty? This is the very issue for which I take exception.

You seem to be giving ample latitude to the officer’s actions based on the thought process that he simply made a mistake. An error in judgment shouldn’t warrant harsh action in your opinion. I would agree with you in this thought process. My understanding, however, is that the department admitted that there was overreach. I interpret that as meaning he did not act appropriately given the situation. In other words, he didn’t do what he should have done. He didn’t follow protocol. He broke the rules. There needs to be a stiff recourse of action towards people in authority who abuse that authority.

I think his views are simple to understand. 1. He loves liberty and delights in freedom from an oppressive government. 2. Governmental law enforcement officers are supposed to abide by the same laws as all citizens. 3. Law enforcement officers detained a man who clearly was compliant, innocent, and it was judged by their department that there was overreach. 4. The governmental agency blamed it on poor communication. 5. The offending officer had to give an apology. 6. He doesn’t feel an apology is sufficient to dissuade future occurrences of the same offense. There has been nothing other than a promise to try to communicate better in the future. 7. He considers all government overreach to be an extremely slippery slope. Freedom from such oppression was part the foundation on which the USA was built. A slap on the wrist for such offenses is equivalent to allowing the camel’s nose into your tent. He’ll be sleeping in your bed soon afterwards...

Agreed. But I don’t believe that means we should throw our hands in the air and not seek to maintain a fair and just society. I don’t believe you feel that way either. I don’t believe this was a point being discussed by Grunt. “Well, at least we have it better than those other guys.” - Not a valid argument in this case. We are discussing what should happen here in our nation. Land of the free and home of the brave... Public execution? I believe someone else mentioned lynching? Nobody made that argument and it’s disingenuous to pretend such. I believe this is you being dismissive of the sentiments of others and trying to back up your arguments with an appeal to emotion. The discussion, IMO, really boils down to whether or not a public apology and taxpayer money to an individual who is illegally detained is a valid punishment. Yep. Hmmmm... Is it? Officers of the law are subject to the same laws as every other citizen. And the same punishments... A stupid mistake? Perhaps. But neither of us are the thought police. (Only liberals can do that, remember?) Nobody knows the intentions here, whether a mistake or whether there might even be a pattern of abuse of authority. I agree that proper perspective should be kept. I also know and understand that officers of the law are subject to the same laws we are. There was nothing justifiable in the actions of this officer. There was nothing that warranted an innocent person being handcuffed and detained until he was sufficiently shown to be innocent. There is a slippery slope here that warrants more than an apology. An apology and taxpayer money thrown at someone does nothing to dissuade the offending officer or others from repeating the issue in the future. In fact, this “slap on the wrist” might even encourage boldness towards an ‘arrest first, question later’ mentality. Thin, blue line and all that... Uh... okay..... I must have missed this one being mentioned somewhere in this thread. I assume this was one more attempt to enforce arguments by an appeal to my emotions. Fail. 🙂

Good to know that you are the type of person who is willing to accept the wrongs of others as long as they say they’re sorry and give you money afterwards. For the record, I also am glad to live in the land of the free where my rights can be legally protected from the encroachments of others and redress of grievances can be pursued.

The governing “elite” will take as much power as the governed will allow them to take. Unfortunately, even if you are correct, that slippery slope has been greased through years and years of compromise with socialists over a myriad of random laws and regulations one little inch at a time. Camel nose in the tent and all that...

You sure about that? My spouse was an investigator for CPS for many years. Some of the horrifying experiences she witnessed still haunt her on occasion, despite it being well over a decade ago. I am not arguing the morality of either. At the end of the day, if the government agency has deemed that a person is a threat to the family, they can be removed by force or they may take into custody the person being threatened “for their protection.” @JohnsonJones stated that it couldn’t happen here due to the US Constitution. My argument is that we allow all kinds of things to happen in the name of “safety” or because it’s “for the children.” Is it really such a stretch to see that a potentially deadly, global pandemic or a drug abusing father could be considered justifiable by a governing body to take a child into custody? I’m not saying that it’s right or wrong. But do you really not see how leftist politicians who limit the size of soda containers could justify removing sick family members that threaten the health of the family?

Oh? In what way is this different than child protective services removing children from their families and homes?

South Carolina is no longer on that list: https://www.scnow.com/messenger/news/sc-governor-issues-stay-at-home-order-with-exceptions/article_f3045a91-eebf-5044-bbc2-b34d2b8ab4f7.amp.html

No, Colirio, I just can’t understand why the prophet said that we would need to learn to receive revelation in order to be able to discern truth in the coming days. /s This political divide very much reminds me of the final days of the Jaredites when the people were gathered to Coriantumr or to Shiz. Ether 14:20 And they were divided; and a part of them fled to the army of Shiz, and a part of them fled to the army of Coriantumr. Ether 15:6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.

President Nelson - “If we are to have any hope of sifting through the myriad of voices and the philosophies of men that attack truth, we must learn to receive revelation.” I don’t believe that there is any other way.

Indeed, the Savior Himself declared while on the cross, “It is finished.” To what was He referring? The resurrection of Jesus Christ is also a culminating part of the atonement as is our individual repentance in our ongoing mortal existence. Our part in the atonement of Jesus Christ isn’t yet complete. Maybe we would all do better to stop wearing our own sins around our necks with a flaxen cord? (2 Nephi 26:22)

1. Only the Gospel of Jesus Christ can unite the world as one. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He personally prayed for us to become one with He and the Father. He WANTS us to be one. There is no other way because He is the Way. 2. Politicians, like the lawyers in The Book of Mormon, purposely cause division amongst the people. Why? Because that is how they grow their business and that is how they maintain power over the people. To the point that we beg and plead for them to “do something” to stop the opposition, to stop whatever emergency is occurring, and to come up with solutions for us on a myriad of questionable subjects. There is a continual back and forth shifting of laws and principles in which we “need” them to fight for our side. 3. The news media never lets a good “crisis” go to waste. That is how they grow financially. It’s bad for business when there is nothing to report. We don’t “need them” when things are good. (Even the most ideal society among the Nephites after the Savior’s visit only received half a chapter of discussion from Mormon. There was only so much to report!) Therefore, we can never fully trust what the media reports because only the sensational gets reported. Using the news media as our main source to know what is happening around us creates a skewed view of reality as opposed to the Spirit that teaches things as they really are and really will be. 4. Even under the guidance of Captain Moroni, there were still kingmen. The point: If we take the above items as true, then the question really becomes a personal evaluation of our time and our priorities. How do we spend our time and are our priorities properly focused? So, @Vort, while I pretty much fall into line with your same views of the situation you outlined above, I would say that it ultimately matters far less than what we are doing to help bring about the Gospel of Jesus Christ so that we can actually become unified as one.

Wouldn’t a digital comic be a cartoon movie/show? Because it seems that a digital comic with still frames would be an exceptionally boring thing to read through...

I apologize in advance for the lengthy post! First, from the scriptures: D&C 45:24 And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations; 25 But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 26 And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth. 27 And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound. 28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; 29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. 30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. ======================= Second from the Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-45-looking-forth-for-the-great-day-of-the-lord?lang=eng “In the Olivet Discourse, the Savior gave four signs to indicate when the times of the Gentiles were over. Three are given in section 45, and one is given in Luke’s account of the great discourse. 1. The Jews will be gathered back to the land of Jerusalem (see D&C 45:25). In the April 1960 general conference, Elder George Q. Morris of the Quorum of the Twelve discussed this sign: “I think perhaps we may well now not continue saying the Jews are going to gather in Jerusalem. I think now we may well say they have gathered.The ultimate returns will come later as they develop this land and are joined by others. … “This statement by a writer is very interesting: “‘Strangely enough when the State of Israel was reborn in 1948, it was a nation of 600,000, the same number which the Bible reports that Mosesled out of bondage in Egypt. It now numbers some two million, the same number which it is said populated the ancient Kingdom of Solomon, when Israel was in all its glory.’ “That is why we may now say that the Jews have returned to Palestine.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1960, pp. 100–101.) 2. It will be in a time of great social turmoil (see D&C 45:26–27). One need only follow current events as reported in the news media for a day or two to see turmoil like the Savior described. 3. The Gentiles will for the most part reject the gospel (see D&C 45:28–30). President Joseph Fielding Smith, writing about these verses, said: “‘And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my Gospel,’ the Lord said in this revelation [D&C 45:28]. The meaning is that when the time had come for the restoration of the Gospel—in the times of the Gentiles—that it would not be perceived because the hearts of the people are turned away by the precepts of men. However, in that generation this should happen, the times of the Gentiles should be fulfilled.” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 1:196.) 4. Jerusalem will no longer be “trodden down of the Gentiles” (Luke 21:24). Again President Smith explained: “When we consider the words of the Savior to his disciples, that the Jews should be scattered and ‘Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled,’ we have a fair understanding of the meaning of this … verse [D&C 45:30] in this revelation. Jerusalem was trodden down of the Gentiles from the day of its destruction until the close of the year 1917, when it was freed from Turkish rule by General Edmund H. Allenby of the British forces. After the war Palestine became a British mandate, and Great Britain by proclamation declared that country to be a refuge for the Jews, who were invited to return. … It is very significant, however, that Jerusalem is no longer trodden down by the Gentiles and the Jews are again gathering there. This is the sign given by our Lord, for the end of the times of the Gentiles. We are now in the transition period and shortly the day of the Jew will dawn and the Gospel will be taken to them and to the remnants on this land.” (Church History and Modern Revelation,1:196–97.) When Joseph Fielding Smith wrote those words in 1947, Israel had not yet been made a state; they were still under the British mandate. But on 15 May 1948, Israel became an independent nation and declared Jerusalem to be her capital. In the war that followed this declaration, the Jews could maintain control of western Jerusalem only. East Jerusalem became part of the state of Jordan. In general conference in 1966, Elder Smith, now President of the Quorum of the Twelve, said: “Jesus said the Jews would be scattered among all nations and Jerusalem would be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24.) The prophecy in Section 45, verses 24–29, of the Doctrine and Covenantsregarding the Jews was literally fulfilled. Jerusalem, which was trodden down by the Gentiles, is no longer trodden down but is made the home for the Jews. They are returning to Palestine, and by this we may know that the times of the Gentiles are near their close.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1966, p. 13.) During the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel conquered the West Bank, including Jerusalem, and for the first time since the city fell to the legions of Titus in A.D. 70, Jerusalem came completely under the control of a Jewish government.”

Perhaps. My own experiences in Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico, or Honduras were a different spin on what you mentioned. I often found people there claimed being “healthy” but had various diseases, often derived from insects, but simply had learned to “live with it.” I went many times to the homes of people who had made homes in the city dump, out of trash, much like you had mentioned. Dengue, malaria, yellow fever and other mosquito derived diseases were often prevalent due to the trash homes not being properly sealed from the outside elements. The lack of nutrition due to not having sufficient food only exacerbated those conditions. And to be frank, I’m not convinced that the people in those conditions know the difference between having the flu, having dengue fever, or simply the effects of suffering from malnutrition.

Numbers 5:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead: 3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell. Again, some verses of scripture that come to mind. But your point is also valid in that we saw Joseph Smith and others that put themselves at great personal risk to go bless others in their time of sickness. (Which resulted in them also becoming sick and also some miraculously healed.) We also have mandates that the elders should give blessings of healing to the sick after anointing with oil. So, when God can and has healed lepers in the past, why would He not have simply healed them all in old times rather than send them away from the rest of the people? Likewise, when should we practice social distancing and when should we go forth to exercise priesthood power in the lives of others? The answer is always the same. We need revelation from God to know the times and seasons. In this case of today, God’s prophet has notified the church over the whole earth that it was so important to socially distance that the work of vicarious ordinances should be stopped in the temples, the church meetings cancelled, and many missionaries should be released early from the Lord’s service. I suspect that in the end, all of this will result in great miracles happening if we are obedient to the Lord’s commands through His prophet.

While I agree that correlation does not necessarily mean causation, and while I agree that residents of sanctuary cities and large homeless populations might not be the initial cause of the problem, it seems rather obvious that poor hygiene and poor living conditions exacerbates this issue. Anyone who has visited or lived in third world countries would be able to attest to the poor hygienic conditions in which the people often live. Likewise, homelessness is certainly known for poor hygienic conditions. The root question we are really dancing around is whether socialistic governments create poorer conditions for its citizens, which in turn aggravate problems such as these.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Without having gone through all the pages of this thread, these scriptures are what came to my mind. Seems to me that there are times and seasons for everything. We plant the crops in one season and harvest in another. The only way to know which spiritual season we are in is by revelation.

The craziest thing to me is the current status of the work of salvation: 1. Redeeming the dead - The vicarious work of ordinances has completely stopped. Family history is all that can be done. This work is severely diminished. 2. Perfecting the Saints - Meeting together often has almost completely stopped throughout the whole world. This work is severely diminished. 3. Proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ - Missionaries being sent home, limited to their apartments, and not gaining access to the homes to teach others. This work is severely diminished. Now, as I know the Lord is over all and has a perfect understanding of everything, it is exciting to me to see how He intends to do His own work! One thing is for sure... I believe this general conference might have the closest attention paid to it of any previous general conference! The excitement of the saints to hear from the Lord’s prophet is palpable!