Sicily510

Welcome, It's always a pleasure to meet other members worldwide. Will be looking forward to reading your post's!!

Welcome, Kia ora!

In regards to this statement it would be likewise with other callings such as young womens leaders, and relief society teachers, pretty much as members we are called upon to fulfill our covenants. The commandments is not regarding our individual spiritual welfare but to inform others and being an examples of such gospels. Primary songs taught me a lot, I became aware of who I was singing about, praises that show reverence and teachings of our Heavenly Father and Savior. For example: How could the Father tell the world of love and tenderness? He sent his Son, a newborn babe, with peace and holiness. How could the Father show the world the pathway we should go? He sent his Son to walk with men on earth, that we may know. How could the Father tell the world of sacrifice, of death? He sent his Son to die for us and rise with living breath. What does the Father ask of us? What do the scriptures say? Have faith, have hope, live like his Son, help others on their way. What does he ask? Live like his Son. Now it's as members our choice and free will on the fact of whether we want to live like Jesus Christ and exemplify. What better way than to chasten to the teachings that's coherent to righteousness and pure knowledge. Moroni 7:48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen. 3 Nephi 27:21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do; John 3:16 ¶For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. TG Example; God, the Standard of Righteousness; Jesus Christ, Exemplar; Leadership.

Good Luck! Cry unto the Lord in prayer....

Agency applies to each and everyone of us as individuals, it's not a term to compare but find common with others. Agency builds individuals faith or deteriorates their faith regarding the outcomes of the decisions made. That in mind, the church teaches us to discipline ourselves with moral agency by refraining from the worldly ways, keeping the Words of Wisdoms, utilizing the ordained leaders in the church for spiritual guidance even to improve our own understandings and/or spiritual welfare. It's really not that complicated if you think about it, I think that over analyzing agency is adding an eludeness to corrupt the main idea of faith and it's relationship to agency. Faith and agency are key ingredients that members of the church can only build from within themselves, however, people who are logical cannot depend on faith because they need reasoning. Reasoning is oppositions in all things, faith is a higher understanding hence allowing those to make decision based on beliefs, agency, and moral agency to their likings. For example, there is one person who is doing bad and is suffering spiritually for all their wrong doings (experiences of agency) still possessing hope that he/she can be free from the bondage of his/her iniquity and there is another individual who observes the one suffering and learns from him/her through their example by not commiting it themselves....and that's moral agency. We are human though and are prone to repeat history because of our weaknesses, thankfully we have Christ's Atonement. Even those who've observed and learned from the others burden will still suffer but in another way because "it's Just" or "Equal" that we all suffer in this condemned world. Agency is a gift that works accordingly with our faith.

Interesting that you share that thought Applepansy. Growing up in my circumstances my parents, whom didn't live in line in the Lords teachings, consequently led to my families separation. My parents are divorced, but what was odd for me even to think of it now was the fact that prior to my families masquerade of attending church we all are still members. Some are members just not adhering to the gospels "Words of Wisdoms" and others flourishing in the blessing of keeping the commandments. We all have the knoweledge of "Families can be together forever" and because we were separated we strive to still want to be together spiritually. The adversary works so hard to cause us to rise up against each other, I'm the youngest of seven and was born into a family that I thought that we all share the same father and mother. I found out after the trial we went through that I had half siblings and it broke my heart because I couldn't fathom that we were half and not full blooded siblings. The fact that my parents took our family while we were young to church helped us, we pretty much grew up through the grace of heavenly father. Our parents were too corrupted in their ways that it was becoming a curse. Fortunately, we were in a wonderful ward that saw the afflictions that our family was going through. They were involved in helping with foster placements for the younger ones, the older siblings already were out of the home living as young adults. The older siblings couldn't care for us because they were in need of help themselves, no parents to turn to. Each of us had heavenly father to build trust and love from because of our parents poor decisions they've made.

I find the gospel of Jesus Christ amazing, and to utilize the scriptures to seek answers has caused many blessings throughout my life. I live in faith as a member, I am not perfect in understanding and representing information of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-days. However, growing up in it has informed me that no one is perfect, and we are to hold steadfast to our faith in Christ because he is the only true way to eternal happiness. It's demising the purpose of our saviors sacrifice if we were perfect. This church and this gospel has helped me to realize that my temporal life is a test of my faith in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in showing how much I want to be with them. This is why I believe it to be simple, when adhering to the gospels and teaching it has only strengthened my faith due to the wonderful blessings I've conceived (counts my blessings). This gospel has always provided a positive information and understanding of Jesus Christ and guidance through these latter-day prophets such as Thomas S. Monson. I believe Joseph Smith was a living prophet who was seeking truth in Heavenly father (God) and was able to receive a vision through his faith. My faith has been tested and shakened by the trials and tribulations I face in these latter-days, not in everything I do can I say heavenly father has been with me. I am able to state that when I do good it was due to the thoughts of either a scripture, teachings, and prayer and those were times I allowed heavenly father to be with me. To say that the gospel is complex in my opinion would be because I am not willing to understand and accept it for what it truly is. The gospel of Jesus Christ is changing many to live by faith and good works allowing everyone to live in a spiritual unity. I've been ,for the very first time, to a Sunday class in relief society where two members were in a arguement and it was in regards to whether the whole world entirely flooded or a certain continent. I was shocked because of the fact that these two were arguing over a details of the flood instead of the purpose of the flood. This helped me understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions of what they are reading, and that not everyone is going to have a birds eye view of the scriptures, even myself. Faith has been an essential key benefactor for me to truly seek heavenly father. Faith has given me the spirit to seek answers to many of my afflictions when I pray and read. This church has enabled me to exercise my faith individually by encouraging me to search, ponder, and pray. It's core value is to live by faith in Jesus Christ and each day nourishing it by the things we do in our daily lives that is good. I never felt that the color of my skin was an issue in this church, I have a sister-in-law who is German and Italian. She's a member and she said one time to me when I was sixteen that if I continue to be righteous I'll become white as snow or possibly like her. LOL, hahahaha I was thinking to myself..okay, so I'm not good enough since I'm very dark. She wasn't quoting anything in particular in the scriptures, but I read the scriptures and didn't feel that what she explained was equivalent to what the scriptures informed me spiritually. I was able to have an understanding that a curse wasn't based on the color of the skin but the ignorance of the people in rejecting the commandments. All in all, I can say that my family was cursed with some of the sins that have been conveyed in the scriptures. And to be able to identify what was given as a precaution in the scriptures was a testimony for me in this church. Keep his commandments is all that he ask of his children, and the more I strive will my desires in heavenly father be revealed at judgement. Also, what better way to inform the children what's right from wrong in their early years and to be accountable for all their wrong choices by apologizing, and trying not to do it again. I would say that's the simplest teachings and close similarity to our saviors atonement one could get. The Church Of Jesus Christ of These Latter-days provided information of how to live a better quality of life through teachings that earlier prophets before christ, during Jesus Christ, and after Jesus Christ death preached. Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Ephesians 6:1-8 1.Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. (My parents weren't necessarily with the lord in their decisions of raising a family, however, I was able to learn from their mistakes. As for the family duties and respect I actually learned from church. My parents sometimes rationalized to justify their wickedness. Fortunately, the church taught me right from wrong and accountability that I was able to make decisions accordingly.) 2. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise) (Just because my parents weren't with the lord in poor decisions they've made doesn't mean for me to not do as I'm told...such as chores, coming home at a certain time, and to not hang out with kids who cause trouble. Now that I'm older my parents still ask for me to do things and I try to do as they would like...I'm not really good at it but I'm trying to become better. :)) 3. That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 4. And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. (Family trials and tribulations helped fulfill this verse.) 5. Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling in singlesness of your heart, as unto Christ; (When I read servants it's not slaves but those who serve others as in jobs, community service, and school. To be obedient to the manager, leader, teachers according with respect and good deeds.) 6 Not with eyeservices, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7. With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8. Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. 1 Peter 2:20-25 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21.For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22.Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23.Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24:Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25.For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Reading the scriptures is easy, it's easier when you have the topical guide, index, and others to constructively discuss points of view on the excerpts and applying it into our daily lives.

Was the wrath that was given upon the people not fore-told if they do not "REPENT" evil? I don't believe it's evil, for they were warned through a prophet of there days. People were so blind by their wickedness and iniquities that they became prideful of themselves because they couldn't fathom the thought of reproving themselves for something they don't know, see or even desire. Thinking about it they were savages, rebels without a cause, desired of flesh and worldy ways, they lived in vain. That is why it's important to seek Heavenly Father to build your own knowledge (faith) through him and his teachings which were exemplified through Jesus Christ. It's our own individual responsibility to reprove ourselves, to seek Heavenly father, seek our own eternal salvation, no one elses. Just as it is our own responibility to seek moral agency and do as we would in our daily lives accordingly. With the free agency is the understanding of right from wrong and the choice to act accordingly, with moral agency is the willingness and commitment to do right.

Enduring to the end all the trials and tribulations, all the afflictions, the hardships. Building our faith in heavenly father through practicing our saviors examples daily and nightly. Through prayer, scriptures, service to our neighbors and fulfilling our church callings. Being responsible, accountable, and teaching our children the examples of our savior so that they may have a foundation to build upon themselves.

The gospel is simple if you possess "FAITH" it's complex if you don't. 2 Timothy Chapter 2 Christ gives eternal glory to the elect---Shun contention and seek godliness. In simple terms Christ gives eternal glory to those selected for divine mercy or favor; especially for salvation. Get rid of questions by seeking answers (Heavenly father, the all knowing, pure knowledge)....it's like education instead of waiting for shool to inform you just take a look and read a book, why not try the scriptures. Roman 5:5-6 And hope maketh not ashame; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (The spirit endowed by our creator) 6.For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. God has a law and principle, by the measure of our faith in following such laws/principles (Jesus Christ) he will judge. Romans 5:18-21 Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Here is a translation that probably is more simplified for you: Romans 5:18-21 New International Version (NIV) 18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It is such a blessing to read your experience and how it's a universal message that so many are lost but with seeking heavenly father they can be found. You really went soul searching for the church that can help you in our days, I love that you were in tuned with your own individual spirit because it's that faith endowed in each and everyone of us through Heavenly Father. Some don't know how to be in tuned spiritually and some do, you are one of the few who strived to. Welcome and continue to search in the scriptures to feed your soul, I look forward to reading more post from you. :)

I agree it's critical to have faith, though I may lack perfection in such a strict principle it's my limited and own willingness to adhere to such. We can only walk by faith and what we are taught as true principles to be closer to heavenly father. It's human nature to compare and think one more knowledgeable of him than the other without focusing on our own individual faiths and sanctifying ourselves as well as others. That's why this church offers many such knowledge and truth to take it upon themselves to seek heavenly father. And at the same time experience the process of repentence through our loving savior Jesus Christ. I truly believe that with faith our hearts are able to fulfill the task asked of us to help thy neighbors and educate the poor. It's so very hard to be good alone, but with the help of others who abide in faith and understanding it's as though we're moving mountains. First and foremost faith is our inheritence. Roman 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Titus Chapter 3: Saints must live righteously after baptism. 1. Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 2. To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, ad hating one another. 4. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared. 5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6. Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7. That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. (supports why we must prepare and reprove ourselves and commit with obedience to maintain good works, deeds, thoughts, into our daily lives. This is where limitation is among men and not our heavenly father.Hence the "measure of faith") 9. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and striving about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. (Doesn't this include the topic of this thread? Cafeteria Mormons nit picking what doctrines they want to follow. Questioning where men/women were created from? Discussions that causes contention such as comparing gospels. Leave these questions for those who seek heavenly father individually. If you are a leader in your church it would be wise to be an example to provide through teaching to seek the gospel not question it.) 10. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; (Apostasy, of individuals) 11. Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. (Having the knowledge that I do and not abiding by heavenly fathers principles is condemning myself. It includes forgiving, repenting, baptizing for the remission of my sins. This is the limitation we have not heavenly father. We must be accountable of all the wicked, sins we possess and choose to change it through Jesus Christ atonement.) 12. When I shall send Artemas unto thee, or Tychicus, be diligent to come unto me to Nicopolis: for I have determined there to winter. 13. Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them. ( Reading this part made me think of what are we to gain from these gods? They have no morals, principles, and they want to be praised for nothing.) 14. And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. (Good works is always fruitful it's a sacrifice we all must be willing to make via tithing (Even for the destitute Tithing?a Commandment Even for the Destitute - general-conference, donation to the poor, sending goods to the store house, educating the people so that we may live in unity that is a limit we as human beings hold not our heavenly father.) 15. All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen. * Read the beginning chapter of Titus (The Epistle Of Paul To Titus) this is a sweet chapter in the bible. Some of the verses I would like to share as well.... Moral of my post is from a primary song I loved singing "Search, Ponder, and Pray": 1. I love to read the holy scriptures, And, ev’ry time I do, I feel the Spirit start to grow within my heart— A testimony that they’re true. Chorus Search, ponder, and pray Are the things that I must do. The Spirit will guide, and, deep inside, I’ll know the scriptures are true. 2. So, prayerfully I’ll read the scriptures Each day my whole life through. I’ll come to understand. I’ll heed the Lord’s command And live as he would have me do. Chorus Search, ponder, and pray Are the things that I must do. The Spirit will guide, and, deep inside, I’ll know the scriptures are true. 1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Oh I must not forget Proverb 18:12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility. referencing Proverbs 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit. That's as is fully understandable if you have the spirit. Alma 7:23-24 And now I would that ye should be humble, and submissive and gentle; easy to be entreated; full of patience and long-suffering; being temperate in all things; being diligent in keeping the commandments of God at all times; asking for whatsoever things ye stand in need, both spiritual and temporal; always returning thanks unto God for whatsoever things ye do receive. And see that ye have faith, hope, and charity, and then ye will always abound in goods works.

This is essential to gods law, how many past stories do we have to read in the bible to learn that people rebuked heavenly father and see even to this day the same thing testified. Why is heavenly father in so many primitive cultures? If greek had god's they must have came upon a gospel in those days, but they used their own understanding to interpret heavenly father. In the islands they believe in gods but it was to there own interpretation as well who heavenly father was. Heavenly father exist but for some he's a myth for others he is a way of life. The translations are to my own understanding, you may correct me if you feel that it's not. Psalm 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head; for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities. Translation: Let a righteous man strike me--it is a kindness; let him rebuke me--it is oil on my head. My head will not refuse it. Yet my prayer is ever against the deeds of evildoers; This applies to all of us, to accept the church to help us change for righteousness and also pray that these leaders may continue to have the spirit with them as well. Proverb 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Translation: The reverence of the Lord is the beginning of discernment, being spiritual; knowledge: but fools despise education, learning, understanding, the gift of holy ghost and problem solving. Proverb 1:8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother: Translation: My son, hear the education of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy family, children, and duties. Proverb 1:9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck. Referenced to Proverb 25:12 As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear. Referenced to Proverb 3:22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck. Proverb 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. Translation: My son, if sinners entice you, do not give in to them. Referenced to Psalms 1:1-2 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Translation: Happiness is the man that chooses to walk in the counsel of heavenly father, and does not share fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. And does not sit with the vain people and go with dissemblers. Happy is the man who rejoices the law of the Lord and lives it day and night. Would like to referece Alma 41:11 And now my son, all men that are in the state of nature, or I would say, in a carnal state, are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; they are without God in the world, and they have gone contrary to the nature of God; therefore, they are in a state contrary to the nature of happiness. I can testify that this is real...this is now so many agnostics, atheist, and carnal state men/women. I live in the bay area I see people who choose to live in their iniquities and still say that they follow heavenly father, I myself am imperfect that I need to reprove and thus it is possible through Jesus Christ. I must always remind myself of Jesus Christ and the examples he provided to live happier. If he sacrificed his life why can't I sacrifice my sins/iniquities and change for righteousness? referenced to Ephesian 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Temptation is everywhere it's on tv, at school, even in churches. In order to solve these problems it starts with ourselves we must live righteously in order to be examples to the children and those who don't have the knowledge of such law and ordinances. That's what I say about America change doesn't start with the president it starts with "We The People" being involved in governing our nation. referenced to Psalms 26:4 I have not sat with the vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers. There are people who are bitter and always trying to speculate and judge. I don't like to affiliate myself in that environment, the gossips, the social media. I like to enlighten people with intellectual and sincere conversations where we can grow spiritually. Referencing Jeremiah 15:17 I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou has filled me with indignation. This is the media t.v. these days..man I see tv everywhere!! I don't even have to own a tv just to see an assembly of mockers. I will say one of them is Bill Maher (not a fan, he has no self-respect to care for others respect.) This is why it's important to be involved in a community public service. I am a part of a committee that informs citizens why it's important to vote, and why they should read about the candidates so they can make a smarter decision on who they want to vote for. Proverb 1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Translation: They rejected my advice and paid no attention when I corrected them. As heavenly fathers children we have the right to be educated and corrected when needed, it's a god-given principle. These are the many verses that displays the loving grace of our heavenly father, we could be compelled and should have when distruction was at hand. However being born into a foolish world only the few will inherit heavenly fathers plan if they seek dilligently and pray steadfast in these latter-days always remembering our savior Jesus Christ and exemplifying the teachings.

Your end statement reminds me of the excerpt John 3: 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Thanks for sharing such testimony Anatess, this is the manifestation that is self-evident to each and all of us individually. This is self-evident in the Declaration of Independence, we all possess the spirit that has been endowed by our creator and heavenly father. I believe that everything will be manifested and know that "The Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-days" is a true church. It was through my own spiritual search that I was able to find a true understanding of our heavenly father's plan through Jesus Christ examples. I believe that Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet for these Latter-days. To question anything that opposes this religion is to question my own faith in seeking heavenly father. The scripture is my inheritence that I may be able to feel heavenly fathers marvelous works through the testaments of our savior and past mistakes that nations made before ours. There were nations that were just like America but failed to acknowledge heavenly father and his laws of repenting. Job 1:1-21 Job, a just and perfect man, is blessed with great riches---Satan obtains leave from the Lord to tempt and try Job ---His property and children are destroyed, and yet he praises and blesses the Lord. Job 2:1-13 Satan obtains leave from the Lord to afflict Job physically --- He is smitten with boils --Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar come to comfort him. Job3:1-26 Job curses the day and services of his birth. He asks: Why died I not from the womb? Job 4:1-21 Eliphaz reproves Job, asking such questions as : Are the righteous cut off? and, Shall a man be more pure than his maker? Job 5:1-27 Eliphaz counsels Job: Man is born unto trouble; Seek unto God; and, Happy is the man whom God correcteth. Job 6:1-30 Job bemoans his grief---He prays that God will grant his petitions---Those who are afflicted should be pitied---How forcible are right words! Job 7:1-21 Job asks: Is there an appointed time for man on earth? What is man that thou shouldst magnify him? Why dost thou not pardon my transgression? Job 8:1-22 Bildad asks: Doth God pervert judgment? He says: Our days upon earth are a shadow; and, God will not cast away a perfect man. Job 9:1-35 Job acknowledges the justice and greatnes of God, and concludes that man cannot contend against him. The book of Job is a testament of my own afflictions and to be able to relate with this individual from many many years before christ is an astounding spiritual unification of how real our heavenly father is. The same principles that is taught in "The Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-days" upholds to this day. The adversary works hard to confuse and misguide us, but when we confide in the holy ghost it's that still small voice of light that manifest the inevitable cycle that satan, lucifer worked against job still able to work against ourselves. All glory to the most high god, I am so very grateful for his gracious love through Jesus Christ. I stand all amazed at the love Jesus offers me, and for the mercy our heavenly father endowed in us with the holy spirit. I would think that the holy spirit is equivalent with the consciousness of right from wrong except that it's a higher understanding of spiritual right from wrong. I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

The whole purpose of my post is that Zimmerman lacked sound motifs, moral ethics in his judgement of pursuing Trayvon. There are other means as to attaining perps on premises such as stun guns, pepper spray, calling backup to ensure safety for yourself. Even at that, if they were in a physical altercation Zimmerman should have utilized a pepper spray, stun gun. I'm sure if Trayvon was lethal, Zimmerman would of been shot without any physical altercation. Criminal minds do not stress moral decisions.There has been people shot in front of my house without a verbal altercation or physical altercation. Drive by shooting at homes and kids getting shot from gang rivalries. If Zimmerman followed accordingly I wouldn't consider him lethal but that's my own personal opinion. I live in East Oakland, California not even police would pursue some of the thugs and/or hoodie wearing perps in this community at gun point they use taser guns (it's really popular). Why should a voluntary neighborhood watchmen resort to a gun then?

An lds article I would like to share: ***** edited **** Please go to the link to read the entire talk. We can't post an entire article as it violates copyright rules. Knowing God - Ensign July 1972 - ensign

I'm not sure about you all, but I find it kind of sad that some would even question heavenly fathers standing as a righteous being. Only the adversary would want people to question as if to chanllenge his laws which is above all laws. If you cannot agree with mankind laws what makes you anymore capable of abiding with heavenly father's? Heavenly father is an all knowing god and to say he is limited is to say your limiting his righteous influence in your life.

In this case god is as limited as you want him to be, like I was stating in another thread some seek heavenly father others quesiton. Let those who question try seeking and if not then they were not meant to be with heavenly father.

Thanks for sharing this, it has amplified my testimony for this church even more.

First and foremost may Trayvon Martin rest in peace, it's unfortunate that this has become a social, political frenzy. Unfortunately, the system is flawed regardless if it's stand your ground he was not an official police officer but a neighborhood watch volunteer. This is disturbing because how can you bare armor if your a volunteer, that's exceeding the constitutional right unless your an officer, not even security guards can carry guns unless issued a firearm permit by the Bureau. We have the right to bare armor but it must not be loaded and if in the vehicle the bullets must not be stored inside or by the gun. And common sense is to make sure you have backup when you feel there is a perp on premises. This whole thing could have been done in an effective manner but it's obvious that zimmerman lacked moral ethics. Even if the security was african american you should call for backup regardless, don't try to pursue without having a witness. Zimmerman should be disciplined due to lack of moral ethical judgement, this whole race is irrelevant he doesn' t even look caucasian. I must be color blind...

I can't agree however with the no light they can tolerate and they are eternally in outer darkness. I was taught as a member that we must hold tight to the iron rod that leads to the fruit of life tree. Some don't cling that they wander off into the darkness because they were either tempted by the people in the tower of destruction and they got lost trying to find someone who was lost. All types of ways of looking at it, but it makes sense how can you spiritually help someone if your not spiritually fit yourself. It would allow the adversary to devour 2 spirits that is desired by heavenly father after all he wanted us but like that quote "If you love somebody, let them go, for if they return, they were always yours. And if they don't, they never were." So, pretty much who do you feel like going back to? I never really thought lucifer is pleasant since he has a pulsive controlling habit. Heavenly fathers wrath is far more fierce, I don't want to test that either. I do know though that as much as he is fierce he also loves. Lucifer I know just wants to controll and make everyone his dominions.

It depends on whether you want to be good or bad. It gets easy if you try to be good, hard if you choose to be bad.

I had that new thread issue, but I started posting anyways before introducing myself. Welcome to the forums, hope to have a wonderful discussion with you sometime. :)

Welcome to the forum, unfortunately, my marriage went down the toilet. However, I found peace through the church because when your taught in youth what kind of qualities to seek in a man it's pertinent to life in general. I use to think while in my youth, why am I thinking about qualities in a man, I'm young it doesn't apply. Little did I know that the reason why the church taught us such values in younger years is to prepare us to find individuals who have the same spiritual aspect and values as ourselves. And it makes sense because why are you going to marry someone who isn't spiritual, doesn't care for morals, and lives life as if there is nothing to live for. When in the other hand you can marry someone who has so much in common spiritually and who is willing to share the strife towards achieving the pursuit of happiness as a family. Sorry about venting here....but all in all welcome to the forum!!