raven2

To each their own. 👍

What about the example they also set for us? I am sure there was a lot of ‘debate’ during Mose and the brass serpent event as well. Probably something along the line, ‘well he didn’t openly command us to look on the brass serpent, just urged us to do so. Also, Fred in the tent next to me heard from his tent neighbor that…’ But I also respect our individual agency.

Not trying turn this into a Covid thread but I think JohnsonJones statements has a lot of merit to the last days and to Noah’s time. Members and others are very good at justifying things that we don’t like or goes against our politic views. While the church has their general statement on vaccinations (which you posted). They made some very specific statements for Covid. Definition of urge - “try earnestly or persistently to persuade (someone) to do something.” “We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population. To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.” First Presidency Also “We are thankful for the countless doctors, scientists, researchers, manufacturers, government leaders, and others who have performed the grueling work required to make this vaccine available. We have prayed often for this literal godsend.“ President Nelson

Thank you for sharing your talk. Clearly the need to be prepared (grow) physically, mentally and spiritually are always something we should be doing. It’s is intertwined with the purpose of life, to become more like our Heavenly Father. I did find this statement interesting. “Today we still see the effects of tyrannical government behavior due to Covid restrictions and their impact on the local and world economy.” It might have been helpful to remind the Saints that part of being prepared (in these last days) is the willingness to not just listen to previous prophet’s, but to put aside earthly opinions and follow the direction and guidance from the living prophet. As Saints we could potentially help reduce Covid spread in our communities and it’s economic impacts by following the prophet and first presidency statements/actions on Covid. Using Covid as an opportunity to develop the ability to heed the direction of the living prophet will help us be more ready to heed future directions as additional challenges of the last days unfold.

I posted this in another thread but felt it fit here as well. Please forgive me for a double post. Presidents Oaks talk was loaded with knowledge and direction for these last days. From political affiliation (or the lack of it), being willing to change our political positions as needed, don’t follow a single political leader, and members can vote in different ways at different times and still be faithful Saints.  Most of all no politics at church and make the gospel teachings the center of life, not politics. If my Facebook feed and Deseret News comment section over the last few years is any indication, this talk just hit a lot of nerves.

President Nelson, Do all you can to bring Covid numbers down in your area so temples can reopen. I think the debate on where the church stands on the severity of COVID, mask wearing, vaccines, etc has gotten pretty clear. How about that moving list of more temples? What a way to end conference. All I could think of was, “We thank thee oh God for a Prophet to guide us in these later days.”

Presidents Oaks talk was loaded with knowledge and direction for these last days. From political affiliation (or the lack of it), being willing to change our political positions as needed, don’t follow a single political leader, and members can vote in different ways at different times and still be faithful Saints. Most of all no politics at church and make the gospel teachings the center of life, not politics. If my Facebook feed and Deseret News comment section over the last few years is any indication, this talk just hit a lot of nerves.

Even the crazy Washington Times retracted their article that Antifa was in the crowd. Many of the photos taken are of well know trumpers/right wing extremist. It is what it is. What makes this more shocking, in my opinion, is this was a direct assault on one of our 3 constitutional branches of government. No different than a mob storming the White House or Supreme Court. This is very different than a Target store being looted. Hopefully people on both sides have learned, over the last year or so, that protests are fine violence is not.

That time has already come.

Just out of curiosity. Are their stakes or wards going back to virtual only meeting in Utah or Idaho as COVID cases rise rapidly?

It appears that some local leaders are unfortunately making decisions based on personal political viewpoints. (I have seen that before.) I think this is on full display as the Area Authority in Utah asked members to wear a mask for the love of others. Yet so many members have ignored that request. Putting politics over religious guidance. I am sure some of this is unfortunately taking place with some local leaders. But, the gospel is true even if man/woman is fallible. I find it interesting that many are talking about how we are in the final days and signs of the time. But we get a sign with a worldwide pandemic and they say it can’t be real. It fake.

Our Stake started going back in June. (In one of the highest outbreaks and death rate States in the US.) Our ward met every week. They require mask but the Stake leadership even had everyone singing. Fast Forward to September. We received a new Stake Presidency and they immediately took all wards back to meeting 2 times a month, no singing and reduced the number allowed by about 30%. The area authority that attended the creation of the new Stake and Stake presidency had some interesting comments. One was we needed to get use to wearing mask, it was going to be a while before that need goes away. Second he asked members who were not attending church because they didn’t want to wear a mask, to reconsider their decision. Finally our previous Stake president had played pretty lose with the virus issues. He even had his mask off at times while sitting on the stand with the Area Authority. He quietly put his mask back on once the area authority made his comments above.

I know this thread is a little old but I did want to respond to this comment about the Hyde Park building. The church not only owns the building but the land it is on. There is no need for a ‘lease’. This would also mean that President Hinckley has no reason to be asked or to respond to a supposed question about the Hyde Park building, 2038 or its relationship to the Saviors second coming. “The Church bought the land for the Hyde Park building when not a single member lived within a seven-mile radius; the site had remained empty since being bombed in World War II.“ Source: Hyde Park building in London to be beacon of light, hope, truth to all the world - Church News July 13, 2012.

Some LDS thought on Revelation 13:16–17. The Mark of the Beast “In contrast to the righteous, who keep their covenants with God and receive His protecting seal on their foreheads (see Revelation 7:2–3; 14:1; 22:4; the commentary for Revelation 7:3; 9:4), the wicked who worship the beast “receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads” (Revelation 13:16). This may symbolize that the wicked show by their actions (hands) and beliefs (heads) that they do the will of the beast and accept his ideology. However, the precise meaning of “the mark” has not been revealed.“ From the LDS New Testament Manual

Thanks for the response. I am trying to get to a point that I trust Heavenly Father more than my own knowledge or concerns. (Still lots to learn on this.) Of course this idea is nothing new with the followers of Heavenly Father throughout the generations of humanity or even our pre earth life as well. 1/3 of all of our brothers and sisters didn’t trust him enough out of fear, pride, etc to even make it to mortal life.

All the data and research (on either side) doesn’t change the church’s position for the members to not carry weapons at church. It’s simple, they are prohibited. After praying I felt the spirit confirm that this is how God wants it at this time in his houses of worship. For me this is no different than many other church statement or handbook rules. There are many things in the church that I can point to research done by man to support or not support a church doctrine or position. I think many members (not all) are struggling with this because it challenges their political viewpoint on gun rights. Just like I have seen many members struggle with the statements made by the church leadership on abortion, immigration, same sex attraction, etc. I have tried to step back and ask myself the following. Are my political views first and my religious beliefs second or are my religious beliefs first and my political viewpoint subservient to those beliefs. God is not a conservative, liberal, libertarian, etc. These are things of man.

These new garments for men are really good. I live in a very humid tropical environment and the fabric breathes really well and they actually built a pouch for guys (what took them so long) so it keeps things from sticking too your legs. Also the bottoms don’t roll up on your legs. The sleeves are slightly shorter and don’t bunch up under you shirt. Add in the fabric is very soft. Win win win win.

Thanks for the info and interesting definition of sparingly.

Thank you for your comments.

Thank you for sharing how you approach the word of wisdom.

Not sure. I started this to see what other members have to say on this. We have winter season in Florida it just usually doesn’t snow. Is it about the season, cold weather, etc. I am not sure. 12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. how would you interpret these two verses of the word of wisdom? when I look at this I have asked myself: What does sparingly mean? Is the focus a season or temperature thing or neither. Like so many parts of the gospel it’s about balance, applying it appropriately to individual needs and direction of the spirit. I am also sure needs, not wasting and our stewardship of the earth also come into play. your thought?

Didn’t omit anything on purpose. I clearly stated that the word of wisdom allows the eating of meat in the right season and needed time. My comments have nothing to do with can we eat meat. It’s how do we as members of the church implement (or don’t implement) this part of the word of wisdom. Sorry if you feel I was stating other wise.

Scott, Very interesting story. Thank you.

- I think this thread and other threads I have seen would show there are many opinions and different points of view on some aspects of the Word of Wisdom among active members of the church, from what types of teas are ok to alcohol in food, etc. - I am not sure that having a certain aspect of the Word of Wisdom have less focus makes it not part of the Word of Wisdom. The question in the Temple Recommend is "do you keep the Word of Wisdom which includes the use of drugs or abuse prescription medication". No coffee, tea, alcohol or meat are specified in the interview question. - I would agree that using proven medical knowledge to provide supporting reasons to keep the word of wisdom has plenty of value. - Paul's counsel - I think the Word of Wisdom provides additional clarity that meat should only be eaten in the winter and at times of famine. Its great to have additional knowledge through modern scripture. I would also say the wording is not ambiguously written. - I think the Prophet Joseph Smith (and other later day Prophets) have provided some additional teaching on this topic. I think the season of the year is also very interesting to note as well. "During the Zion’s Camp expedition in the summer of 1834, an incident occurred that allowed a practical application of concern for animal life. As related by the Prophet Joseph Smith in his history: In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, ‘Let them alone—don’t hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety.’ The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger.” (Documentary History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 71–72.) - Well...duh. That seems pretty obvious. The strange thing is not that we freely eat meat but would be shocked at a ward activity serving coffee or tea. The strange thing is that you find this fact strange, almost as if you have no exposure to LDS culture or how the Church teaches its doctrine. As I stated it was intended as an example to create thought on this issues and to generate other members points of view. "..almost as if you have no exposure to LDS culture or how the Church teaches its doctrine." Not sure how this impacts the discussion. This type of ending statement feels as if you wish to discredit comments do to your perceptions you generated by my 1 post.

I find this words of wisdom discussion interesting. In Mormon culture we seem to try and make the different aspects of the words of wisdom carry different weight. Example: alcohol/drugs is bad, tea and coffee is next but eating meat outside of winter or time of famine is optional. I would say most active members would say: drinking alcohol/taking illegal drugs breaks the word of wisdom; coffee and tea seems to have some debate on the types or how it is used; eating meat only in winter or time of famine doesn’t count. As a culture what has made us feel some parts should be strictly observed and other parts like meat is optional? I would say out of everything meat has the most clarity in D&C yet is least followed, if at all. quick example: many wards have some type of cookout during the summer season (Pioneer Day) which usually seem to have lots of burgers, hotdogs or bacon if it’s a breakfast. No one says a word about how these events could be breaking the word of wisdom. Yet if we served coffee or tea at the event the leadership would we shocked. I would normally say this is an extreme example but I am not so sure it really is.