Jane_Doe

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  1. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from LDSGator in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    Agreed. 
    Honestly my reaction at the time (being ms snark and not the most polite) was and inward “well, if I knew the way to my dorm, why would I be asking you for directions?  You must be stupid”. 
  2. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from LDSGator in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    People are sinners. Even desk ladies at BYU.  But it is an example of how we need to be careful in how we approach people and doctrine, always putting charity first. 
  3. Sad
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from dprh in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    Sharing a personal experience: when I was 10, I attended a soccer training camp at BYU.  One afternoon we had some water sports at the fields, to which we all wore our bathing suits (me in my one piece).
      As the day came to a close, I got separated from my group. Lost and distressed, I went into one of the buildings, hoping someone could give me directions. The response from the lady at the front desk “Come back when you are dressed modestly, then I might be able to help you.”
    We need to be very careful on how we approach some gospel topics. 
  4. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    No. 
    Conduct yourself modestly because it’s the right thing to do before God. Not to do with others. 
  5. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to LDSGator in Supreme Court rules in favor of Catholic group   
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/17/supreme-court-same-sex-couples-foster-care-catholic-church-494999?fbclid=IwAR27O4a90zwe_5KiYyU0JiKft3Pel-Y_KCUuCE8E5_aTykBD3DKCIJCdvuo
     
    It seems to be a win for religious freedom.
  6. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to Suzie in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    But isn’t a major reason we engage in modesty, a matter of sensitivity/deference to the way others are affected by our behavior?
    I mean, I get that we don’t want to drift into “her short skirt made me do it!”.  But why can’t we at least say (either to females or, as applicable, to males) “hey, part of the problem with you running around with no shirt on is that it distracts other people, and there is a sexual element to that distraction, and the people being distracted would rather not cope with it at the moment”?
    Who is "we"? The Church? Maybe I'm seeing this from a difference perspective, but I have concerns when we teach young women particularly not to dress in a certain way because it might cause young men/men to feel/think/act/react in a certain way. We have to be very careful here, there are a lot of things that can go very wrong with this sort of teaching including rape ("She asked for it, did you see how she was dressed?"). It can be very damaging for an individual. On top of all of this, it is not an effective way to teach modesty.  I think the focus should be about self-respect and self-esteem which our youth all over the world lacks terribly these days.
     
     
  7. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to Suzie in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    Agreed we don't hear it... But is it a double standard?  Or is it a simple reality that women's temptations do not go that direction?  After all when we think porn we think videos and pictures that men are the primary targets for and consume in large quantities.  We don't generally think trashy romance novels that women are the primary targets for and consume in large quantities.  Yet both appeal to the same base desire of the natural man/woman.
    Women's temptations do go that direction. Generally speaking, I think there is a clear lack of awareness on this topic. Yes, when we think of porn we think about males as the primary targets and women consuming trashy romance novels but there has been a very concerning trend for years of young women particularly  consuming more and more porn daily.
  8. Love
    Jane_Doe reacted to Suzie in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    But your position seems to be of one that says that the "standards of modest dress" is something we shouldn't be teaching. 
    Not at all. I'm clarifying the misconception that young women/women dress to "tempt" men. Just like in the case of the young woman in your ward, she did it because it was a "cool" costume. Was it immodest? Absolutely. I have 0 issues with teaching about modesty, I just don't believe in teaching it for the wrong reasons. The wrong reason will be "You shouldn't wear this costume because you will cause our YM to have bad/sexual thoughts and they will follow you around".
    In my last statement I said "if it bothers you, you are probably staring too much". The reality is that we interact with non-members on a daily basis. They don't have our same values, they will dress and act according to the world and there is no much we can do about that. Having said that, if I choose to engage in a particular behavior, it is on ME 100%. I don't believe in the concept of "but her outfit was too revealing..."  "but she was showing off her body..." and the like. The only thing missing is "Satan made me do it".
    I BELIEVE in modesty, we just need to be careful about the reasons we give.
  9. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to LDSGator in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    To be fair, this isn't a @Fether issue. We're all very, very guilty of this. I include myself 100%. 
  10. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to Fether in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    My attempt at points to be hit on in a lesson on modesty.
    - “Modesty is an attitude of propriety and decency in dress, grooming, language, and behavior. If we are modest, we do not draw undue attention to ourselves. Instead, we seek to “glorify God in [our] body, and in [our] spirit”” - Gospel Topics - Modesty
    - When you are at church, don’t wear clothing, speak in such a way, or act in such a way that distracts you from church activities. When you are at school, don’t wear clothes, act, or speak in a way that distracts from school. Same with a dance, swimming, etc. Unless you are the intended focus of an activity, don’t seek to be the focus.
    - The reason for the constant focus on woman and the specific to-wears and not-to-wears is partly because their men tend to be more sexually minded and tempted and it is easier for women to draw undue attention to themselves, and this matters whether it is intentional or unintentional. Another point of note is that woman’s accepted clothing attire has been slowly degrading over the ages (it was pointed out that men pretty much where the same stuff they did 200 years ago).
    - We are all in this life together. We are all sons and daughters of God. Luke 22:32 teaches that when we are converted, we strengthen our brethren. It doesn’t say “when thou art converted, put up hedges and stumbling blocks for your brother” Additionally, we all Covenanted at baptism tho bear one another’s burdens and stand as a witness of God. Men and woman both should be aware of how they dress and be concerned as to the affect it has on all those around them.
     
    anything else worth being said on the topic? Or something that should be left out?
  11. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to LDSGator in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    @Jane_Doe, this is really, really well said.
    It also goes to show that relationships matter. Like Jane perfectly said, you are more likely to take correction from a friend than a stranger, even if you share religious beliefs. 
  12. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    I see it the same as any other major sin: you need to express love while also being clear on what you believe is correct. 
    Going up to someone you barely know, recounting what you heard, and demanding that they repent for their actions is only going to harden hearts. 
    Obviously I don’t envy the bishop’s position here, as he does have jurisdiction and obligation step up to stop this. I see lots of prayer for him, and counseling with the sake president and/or other guiding people. 
  13. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from Backroads in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    I see it the same as any other major sin: you need to express love while also being clear on what you believe is correct. 
    Going up to someone you barely know, recounting what you heard, and demanding that they repent for their actions is only going to harden hearts. 
    Obviously I don’t envy the bishop’s position here, as he does have jurisdiction and obligation step up to stop this. I see lots of prayer for him, and counseling with the sake president and/or other guiding people. 
  14. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from LDSGator in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    I see it the same as any other major sin: you need to express love while also being clear on what you believe is correct. 
    Going up to someone you barely know, recounting what you heard, and demanding that they repent for their actions is only going to harden hearts. 
    Obviously I don’t envy the bishop’s position here, as he does have jurisdiction and obligation step up to stop this. I see lots of prayer for him, and counseling with the sake president and/or other guiding people. 
  15. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from mirkwood in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    Agreed- their Bishop should 100% be told about this and swiftly deal with this totally inappropriate actions. 
    As to what you can do with Sally... it sounds like you two aren’t friends, or interact with any regularity.  So I would deal with this the same as any other major sin: love the sinner.  If when your paths cross this some how comes up directly, then deal with it directly. 
  16. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    Agreed- their Bishop should 100% be told about this and swiftly deal with this totally inappropriate actions. 
    As to what you can do with Sally... it sounds like you two aren’t friends, or interact with any regularity.  So I would deal with this the same as any other major sin: love the sinner.  If when your paths cross this some how comes up directly, then deal with it directly. 
  17. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from LDSGator in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    Agreed- their Bishop should 100% be told about this and swiftly deal with this totally inappropriate actions. 
    As to what you can do with Sally... it sounds like you two aren’t friends, or interact with any regularity.  So I would deal with this the same as any other major sin: love the sinner.  If when your paths cross this some how comes up directly, then deal with it directly. 
  18. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to LDSGator in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    You don’t have to be an “SJW” to find her behavior repulsive. Contact the bishop five minutes ago. 
  19. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to Carborendum in How can I be a good neighbor to a racist?   
    This is something that SHOULD be brought up to their bishop.
  20. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from LDSGator in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    "Modesty", when properly understood, is about being humble in thought/deed/word/appearance.  It is the opposite of being boastful.  And I find that people errantly try to make it all about appearance, especially a girl's hem line.  That bothers me.
    As to how to better teach this: stress that modesty = humble.  I would even have an entire lesson on modesty where talking about clothes is banned-- just so that other aspects of this important topic can actually get talked about.  And yes, it's an issue that equally affects both genders.  
  21. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    "Modesty", when properly understood, is about being humble in thought/deed/word/appearance.  It is the opposite of being boastful.  And I find that people errantly try to make it all about appearance, especially a girl's hem line.  That bothers me.
    As to how to better teach this: stress that modesty = humble.  I would even have an entire lesson on modesty where talking about clothes is banned-- just so that other aspects of this important topic can actually get talked about.  And yes, it's an issue that equally affects both genders.  
  22. Like
    Jane_Doe got a reaction from Fether in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    "Modesty", when properly understood, is about being humble in thought/deed/word/appearance.  It is the opposite of being boastful.  And I find that people errantly try to make it all about appearance, especially a girl's hem line.  That bothers me.
    As to how to better teach this: stress that modesty = humble.  I would even have an entire lesson on modesty where talking about clothes is banned-- just so that other aspects of this important topic can actually get talked about.  And yes, it's an issue that equally affects both genders.  
  23. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to CV75 in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    I think modesty entails an unassuming, moderate, proper and decent spirit in dress, grooming, language, arts and media, and most of the five senses -- what we perform, listen to, watch, touch, and even how we use perfume. I think the Church curriculum covers this.
  24. Sad
    Jane_Doe reacted to Just_A_Guy in No more Priesthood/RS General Session   
    In other news today:  the Temple Square North Visitor’s Center—home of the (copy of the) Christus—is being demolished.
  25. Like
    Jane_Doe reacted to CV75 in Full and complete lesson on modesty?   
    I think "For the Strength of Youth" pretty much covers it for youth and adults. I would say that the principle applies to all and that it begins with a modest (unassuming, moderate, proper and decent) spirit.