HiJolly

I can sort of explain it, but understanding will of course demand its own price. God is the source of everything in the universe. You and I are parts of God Himself. Everything we see or experience is God working within God. Joseph taught that we share a common substance with God, which he described as "intelligence". This is how being His/Her children can work. It gets fairly mystical from there on out. ADDED: Ok, it's all mystical. Sorry.

"Thus, mystical theology is that knowledge of God and of things divine, which is derived, not from observation or from argument, but from conscious spiritual experience; and, being thus based, it possesses, for the individual who holds it, an irrefragable certainty." Irrefragable. Word of the Day.

I once (for most of my life) thought Truth was the most important thing ever and always. Now I realize that as important as truth is, Love is much more to the point, in life. Have you studied Epistemology?

If you think the BoM should be 'perfect' to be scripture, then you're placing boundaries upon it that not even its authors would agree with.

Now _that's_ a very sticky wicket! Did you know Mormons are not Trinitarians? I myself as a mystic am a Panentheist, but most Mormons are Henotheistic.

In the Hebrew language, does the Shekinah have a gender? The Early Church Fathers were patristic, and weren't much on gender equality.

I highly recommend a careful reading of the following: Approaching Mormon Doctrine

I don't know about making the Book of Mormon "more Christian", but you seem to have enough information to be dangerous, I've gotta say that. HJ

Questions often help my understanding, even of a thing I believe I understand. So, thank you for the questions. Because it is not. What is the 'heart', exactly? Can you clearly define it? How does it affect our conscious thoughts? One of the rules of this life is that God does not hold any responsibility for revealing things as they are. Knowing as we are known, and seeing as we are seen, is always our task and no one else's. Even when God reveals 'Truth' to us, He does not ensure that we understand it, He _always_ allows us to misunderstand. This is not a philosophical viewpoint, but a matter of my own lived experience. I know it is. We *are* told. We all saw the risk. Some, possibly all of us, were scared. Those who trusted the plan still went forward. Lucifer did not. Being told you are wrong is one thing. Accepting that you are wrong and making changes to your thought & action from that point on, is a totally different thing. I think he has deceived himself, and cannot (for whatever reason) trust anyone else's opinion on the matter. I think he has indeed been told the truth. He may even believe it, though I'm not sure about that. He may not understand it. To me, this is far, far more likely. Yes, it is just. Not that I believe he will literally be condemned forever. I tend to agree with Brother Brigham on this. Why do alchemists strive to change lead to gold? If the lead never changes, is the Great Work done? I think you should consider the work that social workers do. They see this all the time. We see what we are doing, we know what our goals are ---- but where these things within us don't match up with the way things really work, outside our own self-delusion, well. Eventually we look at the mess and, befuddled and confused, have to say we don't understand. And many blame other people for the poor outcome. I think Lucifer blames God and/or Christ. HJ

I think that bothers you for a very good reason -- you're wrong about it. Not everyone's hearts are true. Psalm 24:4 I think Lucifer is scared out of his wits concerning the risk and finality of a mortal 2nd estate. He has trust issues.

The Choir had fun participating.

Wingnut flaming? Get real. I suspect this is an indicator of your personality, and it's not good. Too sensitive. Sheesh.

...only 3 years late...

Thursday night - 7:45 pm - Mormon Tabernacle Choir practice goes until 9:30. (you don't have to stay for the whole thing)

That's right, truth is a terrible master! then again, I think it's worth it. Welcome.

Welcome, Robert! Hope you enjoy your time here on the site. HJ

Go here: Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas Concert and apply to the 'lottery' for tickets Right. I don't know for sure. I believe the minimum age for the concerts is 8 years. Basically, yes, Sunday attire is recommended. But you *could* wear jeans. Hope you have a great time! HJ

The FAIR affiliated forum was taken down by FAIR because they didn't want to be associated with the mean-spirited bickering on the site. So the vast majority of those participating went over to Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board to continue the arguments. I think that site is very good but not for the faint of heart. Many from the old Zion's Lighthouse Message Board (ZLMB) went there when that board folded as well. I can't handle the snarkiness that is found at the new order mormon site. I've tried three times, and just can't abide the spirit that prevails there. One place I could spend every waking hour of my life at are the LDS oriented blogs. This is a good gateway site to some of the most popular ones: ldsblogs org. But they are missing a lot of really good ones like templestudy com and patheos .com/ Mormon I love the stay LDS .com (NOT the other one) site and used to participate often. It, too, is not for the faint-of-heart because most people there have seen the difficult side of the Church/church history. Hah. I just checked, and they still have my post linked to in the 'library' section: HJ

Thanks for the introduction, Bill. I know the journey you describe. I've followed your journey somewhat over the past year or two, on 'other boards'. I'm glad you have not only come to a happy place, but are able to provide assistance to others as well. I have tried to help others through participation on a few various web sites, and continue off and on as time and desire allow. This site is my "peaceful refuge" which I am very grateful for. Welcome. HJ

I don't think there will be a huge global 2nd coming in glory. I think it will be personal and huge, but only to each individual as they are ready to receive it. HJ

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I'm gonna have to back out -- my wife & her sisters are doing a get together near Ogden, and I'm tagging along. HJ

I can have a perfect testimony of prayer, yet lack a testimony of, say, tithing.

I'm interested, Pam.

Of my friends & acquaintences that have left the Church, 2 left because of Church History/non-realistic expectation issues, and 4 or 5 have left because in some way they felt that God let them down. Again, non-realistic expectations.