askandanswer

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  1. Like
    askandanswer reacted to Jamie123 in Wife is coming to Carol service   
    Absolutely right of course. "A weight only humility can bear and the backs of the proud will be broken."
  2. Like
    askandanswer reacted to zil2 in Newest Apostle   
    Did you read his bio?
  3. Love
    askandanswer reacted to Carborendum in Adopting a BIC Child?   
    I believe I'll have a low probability of success.  We haven't determined if we're moving forward with this.  But I thought I'd share the conditions that made me want to consider it. 
    Maybe I'm not thinking straight.  So, I'd welcome some corrections.
    My adult children attend a YSA ward where they know a friend who fell into familial estrangement.  Her mother and stepfather kicked her out of the home with no warning.  She was not allowed to go back into her home when she came back from a YSA activity.  She called some friends.  And after at least one home that couldn't take her in, she landed at our house.
    Her father was highly abusive to all his kids.  I didn't ask for details.  But it seems that all of his kids have refused to be around him.  The one exception is the youngest boy.  It appears that the father finally realized that he was losing his kids forever.  So, he overcompensated with the young boy and decided to spoil him.
    The mother re-married to a man who is not overtly abusive.  But he does things that just aren't right.  I wouldn't call it "emotionally abusive" behavior (my non-professional assessment).  Perhaps it is "emotional blackmail" -- and that may be too strong.  But I can't think of a more accurate term.  What I've witnessed first-hand is what I'd call rudeness and/or coldness.  So, is that abusive?  No. But there is clearly no love in that relationship.
    When she was at our house helping with some kitchen clean up she dropped a dish and food spilled out on the floor.  She fell into tears and exhibited tremendous fear.  She cleaned it up but then went straight to her room to cry.  Empress went to her to try to soothe her.  It seems that her stepfather would throw tantrums at her for spilling something at the dinner table.  So, she feared that we would kick her out of the house for such an infraction.  Empress told her not to worry.  She was satisfied that no dishes were broken, and she (the girl) cleaned it all up before running to her room.  I tell you, whatever the details of what actually happened in that home, this type of behavior is an indicator of something not being right in that home.
    The one major thing I can't get around is that they have stolen over $4000 from her.  They say that they are simply holding it for her.  But they won't give it back to her ... unless... she does certain things.  But they've already gone through several cycles of her "taking care of a few things first".  It is becoming apparent that they are never going to give that money back to her.
    I've recently been entertaining myself with Mr. Reddito videos.  While there is a revulsion aspect to the stories, I also get a sense of relief that our family isn't like that.  But when faced with a real-life situation like this, it is not just some method of entertainment.  This is a real person being messed up by real people who are messed up themselves.  Still, I'm glad my family isn't like that.
    Because of how she was raised, she has some emotional/psychological baggage.  She's basically a good kid.  But she has some self-destructive behaviors.  They aren't in the "evil" category.  But they are making us raise eyebrows at a few things.  She is a compulsive eater, and shopper.  And we've tried to encourage her to change these behaviors.  We've had some impact.  But it is a process.  It takes time to overcome such habits. We've gotten her to stop certain other behaviors.  And she does feel some mild heartache over that.  But she's making an effort to make changes.
    The reason I'm even considering this is that if you take away just a few idiosyncrasies and the compulsions, she actually fits right into our family.  It's kinda funny that she's the same age (four months older) as our son who is currently on a mission.  And this is the son that we say (facetiously) should have been a girl because of the boy-girl-boy pattern of the rest of our kids.  So, if we substituted her for him, we'd have a perfect pattern.
    Anyway, it is still a consideration.  But right now it is weighing further to the side of "no formal / legal / temple changes".  From a personal and social position, we call her our foster daughter and we treat her like a member of the family.  We'll see how things go as we continue.
  4. Haha
    askandanswer got a reaction from Carborendum in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Clearly, this person is having difficulties eating chocolate cake. My recommendation for anybody who has an undeveloped skill is practice, practice, practice. You're going to have to significantly increase your chocolate cake consumption in order to get your skills up. You'll know your cake consumption skills are at the right level when you can finish two chocolate cakes in an hour and still be looking around for a third. 
  5. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Anniversary of Pearl Harbor: 7 December 1941   
    4 O how afoolish, and how vain, and how evil, and devilish, and how bquick to do iniquity, and how slow to do good, are the children of men; yea, how quick to hearken unto the words of the evil one, and to set their chearts upon the vain things of the world!
    5 Yea, how quick to be lifted up in apride; yea, how quick to bboast, and do all manner of that which is iniquity; and how slow are they to remember the Lord their God, and to give ear unto his counsels, yea, how slow to cwalk in wisdom’s paths!
  6. Like
    askandanswer reacted to Ironhold in Anniversary of Pearl Harbor: 7 December 1941   
    Fuchida, Mitsuo, and Masatake Okumiya. "Midway: The Battle That Doomed Japan."
    Fuchida was an officer with the Imperial Navy, and was part of the task force sent to Midway. However, he was struck with appendicitis after the task force was too far underway for him to be evacuated back to Japan, and so he spent the entire battle as an unwilling observer. 
    It's for this reason that after the battle was over, the powers-that-be ordered him to prepare a report on what happened and what went wrong. The Japanese government was so mortified by the loss at Midway they made news of the entire battle classified information, denying that it had even happened. The final copy of Fuchida's report disappeared as part of this intense campaign of secrecy, but when he was cleaning out an old foot locker several years later he discovered a draft copy he had written. This draft copy forms the core of the book. Okumiya, an aviator with the diversionary offensive against the Aleutian Islands, provided supplementary information from there. 
    For obvious reasons, when the book was published in Japan about a decade after the incident, the United States Navy was quick to acquire the rights to translate the book into English. The copy I have is a paperback edition of the Navy's translation, with annotations in place to note where the accounts differ. 
    Fuchida makes it clear that the top brass of the Imperial Navy *never* entertained the idea that their military intelligence was wrong, let alone that the United States had any chance of winning. As a result, the war games they engaged in to help simulate possible events during the battle were worthless because anything that potentially caused the Imperial Navy to lose was overruled by the judges. Instead, the Imperial Navy quite literally underestimated the number of carriers the US Navy had and had no precautions in place lest the carriers approach from the direction they approached in (a scenario that had, in fact, actually emerged during the war games but was ignored). The US Navy had broken enough of Japan's codes to know that Midway was a likely target, and so had long since prepared. 
    The loss at Midway broke the Japanese Navy, putting them on the defensive for virtually the rest of the war. The Battle Off Samar was their last major offensive action, and the loss of so many ships to such a small American force so put the Japanese to shame that they never recovered emotionally. This is how the kamikaze attacks got started, the utter desperation at the knowledge that the Americans couldn't be stopped as things existed. 
  7. Thanks
    askandanswer got a reaction from Jamie123 in Wife is coming to Carol service   
    Lessons can be read in lots of different ways. I would be focussed on reading the lesson in such a way that it would have the biggest impact on those who hear it. 
  8. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 11 Dec - 17 Dec 2023 (3 Nephi 14 - 4 Nephi 1)   
    We have to wait another 400 years until we get the words of this blessing from Moroni. 3 Nephi 18:3  he took of the bread and brake and blessed it;
     
    This makes it sound as if they ate quite a lot of bread - enough to be filled.
    3 Nephi 18:4  And when they had eaten and were filled,
     
    The breaking of the bread is typically done by the Priests, and almost always involves two Priests and sometimes three. 3 Nephi 18:5 Behold there shall one be ordained among you, and to him will I give power that he shall break bread and bless it 
     
    There is no mention of the wine being blessed.
    8 And it came to pass that when he said these words, he commanded his disciples that they should take of the awine of the cup and drink of it,
     
    I'm just thinking about some of the other words that could have been used here. Always do FOR those who repent. Always do WITH those who repent.
    3 Nephi 18:11 And this shall ye always do to those who repent
     
    It takes only the smallest chink in our armour for Satan to find his way in. 3 Nephi 18:18 18 I say unto you, ye must watch and pray always lest ye enter into temptation; for Satan desireth to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.
     
    It was only after the death of many thousands of the wicked that none were commanded to go away. Perhaps by that time there were no more wicked to stay away. 
    3 Nephi 18:25  And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away,
     
    Every broken commandment is evidence of having been led away into temptation and every broken commandment increases the likelihood of being led further away into temptation 3 Nephi 18:25 whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
     
    The same action - partaking of the sacrament - has very different effects, depending on the condition of the person doing the action. For one it saves, for the other it damns.
    3 Nephi 18:29 For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul;
     
    Does this suggest that there is a set, definite number of people who will follow Christ? 3 Nephi 18:31  for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered.
     
    Another reminder about disputations, given not very long after the previous reminder.
    3 Nephi 18:34 And I give you these commandments because of the disputations which have been among you. And blessed are ye if ye have no disputations among you.
     
     
  9. Thanks
    askandanswer reacted to zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Just posted next week's thread:
     
    Sorry, @askandanswer, I keep forgetting to do this on my Saturday!
  10. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    THanks @zil2 I'm just about to start my scripture reading now and now I know where to read. 
  11. Haha
    askandanswer reacted to Traveler in Henry Vacuum Cleaner   
    Hummmmmm -- maybe I whould have better luck training your cat.
     
    The Traveler
  12. Thanks
    askandanswer reacted to zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    3 Nephi 8 & 9
    It's easy to miss that this voice was speaking while they were still in darkness.  Chapter 8 ends noting that the darkness lasted 3 days, so it's easy to think that the darkness ends with chapter 8...  I cannot find anything explicit in 8 or 9 to say it was light or dark, but...
    The heading of 9 says "In the darkness..." (and I'm not about to second guess Elder McConkie, even if he himself said these were neither scripture nor without error) 8:23 says that for three days "there was no light seen" and the people were "mourning and howling and weeping" continually.  (But presumably they stopped with the voice started.) All of this is to point out that the voice of Christ was heard immediately after all the destruction, at some point during the three days of darkness. (And to set the scene for comments on chapter 10.)
    3 Nephi 10
    v2: They ceased lamenting and howling for the loss of their kindred - suggests that this is still during or immediately after the three days of darkness.
    v1-2: Other than Christ taking credit for all the destruction, the things he said in chapter 9, should not have been a surprise.  They had been taught that Christ would redeem them from their sins, that they must repent, and that after Christ came, the law of Moses would be done away.  It's likely the survivors (the more righteous, even if not that righteous) would remember at these the basics of that.  Perhaps it was a little surprising that the new sacrifice was as "simple" as a broken heart and contrite spirit, but I don't think any of that is enough to account for many hours of silence.  I suspect that it was both the voice out of nowhere (so to speak) and the power of Christ that caused this stunned silence.
    I have no idea what it's like to hear the voice of Christ speaking seemingly from nowhere, but I think there's a lesson here.  Christ gave these people time to "process" what they had heard and felt.  Whether they did that was up to them.  Therefore, we should choose to take time to "process" (aka document, ponder, study, and pray) when we have spiritual experiences - great or small.  We should make silent time and space wherein to receive what God has sent to us.  I believe that the better we get at that, the more we will receive (and the faster we'll be able to process it).
    v5: "ye that dwell at Jerusalem". In 9:6-7, the Lord says the Nephite / Lamanite city of Jerusalem was sunk into the earth and waters were caused to come up in their place.  Therefore, it seems more likely that the Lord is addressing the Jerusalem where he had ministered.  And this makes me wonder: Is this one of those cases where the Lord addresses a people without them hearing it (similar to Luke 13:34 - few would have heard him speaking these words), or was his voice heard in the old world and we just have no record of it?  The first half of his words (chapter 9) was very specific to the Nephites and Lamanites, but this part appears to be common to the entire house of Israel...  Anywho, just a curiosity. (But before you go wondering how such a thing could be lost, see v16-17 about things that were on the plates of brass that are not in the Old Testament.)
    v5-6: Be like a cute baby chicken, and go huddle under Christ's wings where it's safe and warm.
    v9: Aha!  So this was during darkness.
    v10: When the trial is over, praise and thank the Lord (but turn to him during it, too).
    v12: Receive prophets, don't murder saints.  Seems like a pretty low bar for survival.  Choose to survive.  Better, choose to be a saint.
    v13: Fates to avoid.
    v18: Mormon at least knows that Christ returned to minister among his apostles before ascending into heaven, and that he came to the Nephites after that.  Note that those who survived received great blessings.  Be a survivor.
    3 Nephi 11
    Per the end of chapter 10, this is a considerable time after all the destruction, darkness, and hearing the voice of Christ.
    v1: When you feel prompted to go to the temple (and perhaps even if you don't), go to the temple!  (Just in case you might otherwise miss out on something spectacular...)
    v3-6: There's no indication in chapters 9 and 10 that the people had any trouble hearing and understanding the voice of Jesus Christ also, no point of origin is specified for Christ's voice.  But here we have a voice coming from heaven.  And unlike Christ's voice, they cannot immediately understand it, not even the second time (v4) when it's no longer a surprise.  It takes three times (a symbolic number, whether there's meaning here or not - though there's certainly meaning in God being willing to (I assume) repeat himself).
    v3: Important points: not harsh, not loud, "small" (probably like a whisper).  And yet: it pierced them to the center, causing "their frame" to quake. It pierced them to the very soul and caused their "hearts to burn".  If just God's voice does this (without even understanding the words), just imagine what his presence would do to you!  Some connections my brain made: 1 Nephi 16:2 states that the truth cuts the guilty "to the very center" (God is, of course, a God of truth).  It is perhaps slightly easier to understand why the Israelites in the wilderness told Moses, in essence, "You go talk to God, we'll stay here."  Joseph Smith taught that "God dwells in everlasting burnings" (ToPJS, section six, p361).  And of course, there's the obvious "burning in the bosom" that signified a confirmation from the Spirit for Oliver Cowdery.
    (Klaw says, "Too much scripture study!  Not enough play!")
    v5: They "opened their ears", they looked toward the sound, looked steadfastly toward heaven - we should do the same!
    v8: I'm not so hard on the Nephites as @askandanswer - it's not like they had a photograph of Christ, or experiences similar to this to compare...  I have to believe Christ was suppressing a significant percentage of his glory (which would be the same as the Father's glory at this point) in order for the people to endure his presence (and not immediately collapse under its "pressure" - for lack of a better way to phrase it).
    v14: I have always assumed that Christ had the power to keep or lose these marks of the crucifixion at his will, and that he will keep them for as long as he deems them necessary.  As to the multitude feeling them one by one - clearly, the Lord wanted a people with zero room for any doubt, a people with absolute knowledge of this at least.  And I have to believe that a massive spiritual healing and witness was happening for each of those individuals, at the same time - more than just what they saw and felt with their hands.
    v15-17: I don't think they needed all this before they could worship, I just think that's the sequence of events, as directed by the Lord.
    v28-30: We should not contend with anger about doctrine (or anything, but particularly about doctrine).  We have a prophet, and we have various key-holders under him, we should yield to them and to scripture to teach us, and not argue it out in Sunday School.
    v31+: Christ's doctrine: repent, believe in Christ, be baptized.
    v35: Fire again.  Seek witness from the Holy Ghost - that witness is more sure than whatever your eyes see and your hands feel.
    v37-38: When the Lord repeats himself, pay attention!
    v39-40: Oh, hey, building.  Gonna have to go note this in my other thread! Only when you base your behavior on Christ's doctrine are you safe and stable - base it on anything else and you're doomed to fall eventually.
    v41: Share the gospel of Jesus Christ with everyone.
  13. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from Jamie123 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Why was this necessary? Had this knowledge been lost? 3 Nephi 11 —He sets forth the mode and manner of baptism
     
    it may be possible that this chapter reveals something about the character of God. He is very clear and specific here in laying out exactly what He wants His children to do. He wants this, and not that. When we make these kind of pronouncements we are making choices, and choices reveal character. God is saying very clearly here that He wants His children to repent, believe in Christ, and be baptised by one having His authority. A general, casual acceptance of Christ and His teachings is not what God wants, that is not enough to please Him, repentance, belief and baptism by one not having the authority is not enough to please Him, keeping the commandments and living a moral life, without believing in Christ is not enough to please Him. This could suggest that God attaches some value to formal acts that indicate belief and acceptance and some value to doing things in a very specific, ordered manner. There are probably many more hints as to God's character that could emerge from a dedicated study of this chapter, I have just hinted here at the possibility.
    3 Nephi 11 —Christ’s doctrine is that men should believe and be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. 
     
     
    Perhaps the distinguishing feature of contention is not the content of a discussion but the nature, purpose and intent of a discussion. Two pairs of people could be saying exactly the same words to each other, but depending on how and why those words are being said, one more might be contending and the other pair might be having a discussion.   3 Nephi 11 —The spirit of contention is of the devil
     
    Bountiful is not listed in chapter 9 as one of the places that was destroyed, but the fact that while they were in Bountiful they were showing each other the great and marvelous changes which had taken place suggests that Bountiful was not unafffected by what had happened.
    3 Nephi 11:1 1 And now it came to pass that there were a great multitude gathered together, of the people of Nephi, round about the temple which was in the land Bountiful;
     
    This is so similar to Helaman 5:30
    And it came to pass when they heard this avoice, and beheld that it was not a voice of thunder, neither was it a voice of a great tumultuous noise, but behold, it was a bstill voice of perfect mildness, as if it had been a whisper, and it did pierce even to the very soul 3 Nephi 11:3 they heard a voice as if it came out of heaven; and they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice which they heard; and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center, insomuch that there was no part of their frame that it did not cause to quake; yea, it did pierce them to the very soul
     
    , This seems a bit odd that they heard this soft piercing voice but did not understand what it was saying. The value of speaking is greatly reduced if what you are saying is not understood. When Joseph Smith had a similar experience there is no indication that he misunderstood anything he heard.
    3 Nephi 11:4 And it came to pass that again they heard the voice, and they understood it not.
     
    They had finally understood what the voice was saying, and it was God introducing His Beloved Son, but still they mistake him for an angel. Perhaps the intent of the law of Moses also failed with this group as well as with the Jews. The intent of that law was to prepare people for, and point them to CHrist, but when He appears, despite having been introduced by His Father, they still don't recognise Him.
    3 Nephi 11:8 and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.
    Having God introduce His Son was not enough for them? They still needed more proof?
    3 Nephi 11:14 14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
     
    I still haven't worked out how the continuing scars of the crucifixion align with the idea that we receive a perfect body when we are resurrected. Was their something incomplete in the resurrection of the first person to be resurrected? Perhaps Christ wants to perpetually carry these scars as a reminder to all who see them about what He did for us. If that is the case it introduces the possibility that we may have some choice about how we will appear in the resurrection.
    3 Nephi 11:15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet;
     
    So its only after they have each personally evaluated the physical proof that they come to the conclusion about who has appeared to them,. 3 Nephi 11:17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.
     
    This is puzzling. Nephi had been such a powerful prophet and surely during his successful missions he had already baptised many people. 3 Nephi 11:21  I give unto you power that ye shall baptize this people when I am again ascended into heaven.
     
    It seems as though for the Nephites, it was very hard for them not to dispute.
    3 Nephi 11:22 ; and there shall be no disputations among you.
     
    This teaching has some similarities with, and differences from, teachings on the same topic in Doctrine and Covenants 20:37, Mosiah 18: 8-9 and Moroni 6: 1-3.
    3 Nephi 11:23 23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.
  14. Thanks
    askandanswer reacted to zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Joseph Smith was seeking and expecting an answer from God - he was already listening.  These people were just going about their lives, surprised by a voice suddenly coming from who-knows-where.  It took them time to figure out what was going on and listen.  I find it more interesting that to understand the voice of God requires active effort on the part of the person God is addressing - that's not something we really think of in regards to listening to someone speaking in our language.  I think their reactions in v3 (in other words, the effect of the voice on the hearers) are equally interesting and revealing.
    It would seem that baptism under the old covenant (law of Moses) was not sufficient, and the people now needed to be baptized into the new covenant.
  15. Like
    askandanswer reacted to Vort in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    The non-intuitive truth is that righteous living in a righteous society inevitably brings prosperity and wealth. It might take a generation or even two, but it's a sure as day following night. Success becomes its own trap for the spiritually immature, even for righteous folks.
  16. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from Jamie123 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Given the frequency and speed of the pride cycle at this point in Nephite society I can't help wondering about the wisdom of repeatedly blessing people with something - in this case prosperity - that almost invariably set off that cycle of pride. Surely there was something else that God could have blessed them with that did not lead to pride. 
  17. Thanks
    askandanswer got a reaction from Jamie123 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Next time you're feeling like this, I recommend a dose of the Book of Mormon. Perhaps anywhere in 3rd Nephi after chapter 9. Or Alma 17 - 26. Or 2nd Nephi 4. Or Mosiah 2- 5. or Moroni 10.
  18. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Next time you're feeling like this, I recommend a dose of the Book of Mormon. Perhaps anywhere in 3rd Nephi after chapter 9. Or Alma 17 - 26. Or 2nd Nephi 4. Or Mosiah 2- 5. or Moroni 10.
  19. Like
    askandanswer reacted to Jamie123 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    Only over "this wicked band". It sounds like the "king" was an irrelevance except to a very few people.
  20. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from Jamie123 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    I think what was established was many leaders, who perhaps could be described as kings, over many smaller areas of territory. 3 Nephi 7:1 1 Now behold, I will show unto you that they did not establish a king over the land;
     
    Something similar seems to be happening today but the basis of the tribes today seems to have more to do with personal identity rather than family and kindred.
    3 Nephi 7:2  and they did separate one from another into tribes, every man according to his family and his kindred and friends;
     
    Instead of having a single chief judge over the whole land they had many tribal chiefs over smaller parts of land. This seems like a devolution of power at the cost of national unity. This really makes me wonder about the value of the system of judges. That system lasted about 120 years during which there were many wars, some political assassinations, a disasterous military defeat when the Lamanites took over Zarahemla, one or two insurrections, numerous other divisions and dissensions within Nephite society and numerous and dissenters who turned their backs on Nephite society. Perhaps the demise of the judges was not such a bad thing.
    3 Nephi 7:3 And every tribe did appoint a chief or a leader over them; and thus they became tribes and leaders of tribes.
     
    This vaguely reminds me of the demise of the English monarchy in India and the partitioning of India to create Pakistan.
    3 Nephi 7:4  therefore their tribes became exceedingly great
     
    I suspect that there are quite a few countries that would be better off if some regulations of the government were destroyed. Here in Australia under the Abbot government we started having annual repeal days when dramatic announcements were made about how much government regulation had been cut. I don't think its happening now.
    3 Nephi 7:6  And the regulations of the government were destroyed,
     
    Those who held senior positions in government and the church probably share some of the responsibility for this state of affairs.
    3 Nephi 7:8  And thus six years had not passed away since the more part of the people had turned from their righteousness,
     
    The king men finally prevail although with the coming of Christ within a few years, they didn't prevail for very long.
    3 Nephi 7:10  And they did call him their king; therefore he became a king over this wicked band;
     
     
  21. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from zil2 in Book of Mormon Reading Group: 04 Dec - 10 Dec 2023 (Helaman 15 - 3 Nephi 13)   
    I think what was established was many leaders, who perhaps could be described as kings, over many smaller areas of territory. 3 Nephi 7:1 1 Now behold, I will show unto you that they did not establish a king over the land;
     
    Something similar seems to be happening today but the basis of the tribes today seems to have more to do with personal identity rather than family and kindred.
    3 Nephi 7:2  and they did separate one from another into tribes, every man according to his family and his kindred and friends;
     
    Instead of having a single chief judge over the whole land they had many tribal chiefs over smaller parts of land. This seems like a devolution of power at the cost of national unity. This really makes me wonder about the value of the system of judges. That system lasted about 120 years during which there were many wars, some political assassinations, a disasterous military defeat when the Lamanites took over Zarahemla, one or two insurrections, numerous other divisions and dissensions within Nephite society and numerous and dissenters who turned their backs on Nephite society. Perhaps the demise of the judges was not such a bad thing.
    3 Nephi 7:3 And every tribe did appoint a chief or a leader over them; and thus they became tribes and leaders of tribes.
     
    This vaguely reminds me of the demise of the English monarchy in India and the partitioning of India to create Pakistan.
    3 Nephi 7:4  therefore their tribes became exceedingly great
     
    I suspect that there are quite a few countries that would be better off if some regulations of the government were destroyed. Here in Australia under the Abbot government we started having annual repeal days when dramatic announcements were made about how much government regulation had been cut. I don't think its happening now.
    3 Nephi 7:6  And the regulations of the government were destroyed,
     
    Those who held senior positions in government and the church probably share some of the responsibility for this state of affairs.
    3 Nephi 7:8  And thus six years had not passed away since the more part of the people had turned from their righteousness,
     
    The king men finally prevail although with the coming of Christ within a few years, they didn't prevail for very long.
    3 Nephi 7:10  And they did call him their king; therefore he became a king over this wicked band;
     
     
  22. Like
    askandanswer reacted to LDSGator in For NeverTrumpers: An appeal to not vote Hillary over Trump   
    One of the benefits of this forum is that you are able to form friendships that can last a long time. She’s one of them. LG and I just sent her a Christmas gift a few days ago.
     
    We were blessed to meet her and her daughter several years ago. 
  23. Haha
    askandanswer reacted to zil2 in Universal Basic Income Has Never and Will Never Work OR Where Does Wealth Come From?   
    ...you could have tossed your opponent in by now and then you wouldn't having to worry about him....
    Note to self: Never sit around a fire drinking scotch with @Grunt or @CommanderSouth!
  24. Like
    askandanswer got a reaction from zil2 in Universal Basic Income Has Never and Will Never Work OR Where Does Wealth Come From?   
    I haven't seen any credible work on the inflationary effects of UBI. It seems to me that if more people had more money, prices would go up, with the net effect being that the poor would have more money but their purchasing power would stay about the same. 
  25. Like
    askandanswer reacted to Grunt in Universal Basic Income Has Never and Will Never Work OR Where Does Wealth Come From?   
    I would argue we got a taste of that during covid, when people were suddenly getting checks in the mail.