Josiah

A nice little gem from President Uchtdorf: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/living-the-gospel-joyful?lang=eng The blessings we receive are exactly the blessings we are able and willing to receive. To the degree that our hearts are changed as we pay fast offerings (or keep any commandment), we are blessed. No more, no less. So it's based on principles of obedience, sacrifice, real intent, faith in Christ, charity, etc. When, how, and how much we pay only affect the outcome to the degree that principles like those are involved in what we do.

Don't forget the spirit world, too. Even if all is decided post-resurrection (hard to say for sure), things don't suddenly get clear for everyone the instant we die. I suspect there is quite a bit of discussion and debate amongst the disembodied spirits. The good news: if there are debates and such in the celestial kingdom, they should be fully constructive and positive since the participants will actually be humble, patient, and anxious to listen and learn!

Thought this looked familiar somehow. Your situation is not new! Both answers are right; the problem is the problem. See this incredibly reliable source: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/48293 (Side note: Even though technically both are correct, if we're voting...throw me solidly in the 58 camp.)

It helps to keep in mind that the challenges we face are only crazy and hectic from our perspective. To us they seem unpredictable, uncontrollable, and chaotic, but God is in control of all things. Our experiences are personalized to give us the greatest eternal benefit and opportunity possible. His role is to teach and guide us. The Savior has atoned for us when we don't get it right. Therefore, we need not fear the things of tomorrow. Yes, we are expected to work out our challenges because that is how we learn, but when we trust in God and keep our perspective, yielding our agency to Him, there is no need for fear to be an element of our efforts.

To clarify, my question was referring to an overall, long-term decision of how much and what kind of soda is ok, not an extreme or isolated circumstance like "drink caffeinated soda or die of thirst." Not that Dr. Pepper exactly hydrates you all that effectively... When you say it that way, it isn't exactly obvious to me either, so I think we actually agree for the most part. Having said that, I'm fairly convinced that people's answers on this issue can and do vary, and yet all are true and correct answers from God. This could easily include being given the ok to drink caffeine in moderation. Having considered the issue personally, I am somewhere between persons 1 and 2. I can count on my hands the times I have had caffeinated soda (knowingly). I only drink soda at all about once in a month, when nothing else is available or on special occasions. Even then I'll often dilute it by going 1 part Sprite and 3 parts lemonade or apple juice or whatever (try it ). That was my answer and my decision, but I guess the main point I'm going for here is this: the answer I received is not the only "right answer" anyone will ever receive. For example, while I feel that drinking a can of Dew a day would absolutely be a violation of the spirit of the WoW for me, I don't feel comfortable extrapolating that to mean that such-and-such faithful LDS who does so is violating the spirit of the WoW, although it is possible. I also don't think that so-and-so who religiously refuses to drink any soda at all and insists that his choice is based on the WoW is necessarily being Pharisaical or taking things too far, although that is possible too. I think both of these people *could* be acting according to the directions they have received from the Spirit regarding the issue. If so, they would be living the spirit of the Word of Wisdom, regardless of the fact that my personal answer conflicts with their actions. How? Because it was exactly that: a personal answer given according to my strengths, weaknesses, capabilities, and circumstances. It took me quite a while to make any sense of these words from the Savior, but I feel that perhaps it relates to what I'm trying to describe. Thoughts?

I don't know your situation, so I can't say for sure what is right. But there are certainly a few important questions I would be prayerfully asking before saying no. They may help you discern for yourself what you need to do. -When you think about saying no to the calling, do you get a feeling of confirmation? A stupor of thought? Neither? Something else? What does this answer tell you? -Is the stupor of thought you had when the calling was extended a sign that the calling itself is wrong, or is it a sign that something else about the situation that is within your control needs to change? -What good can you accomplish in this calling now? What might have been accomplished already that you can't see? -What might the Lord have been trying to teach you in your specific calling and situation in the past year? What might He be trying to teach you with this new situation? -Assuming you do receive an answer to accept the calling, are you willing to accept it joyfully and magnify it with all your heart, might, mind, and strength? Why or why not? (Whichever initial answer you give, I strongly recommend you don't skip that second part, or answer it too quickly. At least for me, both have been important questions to answer in the past, and usually have taken some soul-searching). -Any other questions that come to you from the Spirit. Best of luck to you. I hope you let us know how this turns out.

Interesting. Care to elaborate on what doesn't seem quite right to you about it? At this point I honestly don't understand any other viewpoints on this type of issue, but I would like to.

Christ still asked for their forgiveness because it is only through Him that we are not held responsible. I think it's critical here to remember that without Christ and His Atonement, any sin or transgression would keep us from God's presence according to the law of justice. Hence this from Alma 42: Why does the Savior set repentance as a condition for redemption? Because without it there is no point to our being here. We are here in large part to change and improve. I personally believe this is at least a critical portion of the "work of justice" Alma is speaking of. So where does that leave those who sin ignorantly? Alma continues: So neither justice nor mercy has claim on them? Of course it isn't that simple because, as james12 has pointed out, all men have the Light of Christ as a guide. But something in the principle still applies I think. After all, D&C 131:6 informs us that "It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance." And if the work of justice truly is to help us improve, this possibility is lost on the ignorant as well. Forgiven or not, those who sin ignorantly are spiritually stuck where they are until they learn. Fortunately, either in this life or in the next, everyone will be able to learn. At that point, each can choose to use that knowledge to repent of past mistakes, or to reject that knowledge and remain in sin willfully. Then, having had the law given to them, they qualify for either mercy or justice to have full claim on them according to their choice. So, we are not held responsible if we repent to whatever degree we can. Honestly, what amazes me most is the Savior's infinite love and patience with me at times when I certainly know better.

Is it possible, after much sincere prayer, for... -Person 1 to be prompted to not drink caffeinated soda, -Person 2 to be prompted to not drink ANY soda, and, -Person 3 to be prompted that soda, caffeinated or otherwise, is fine, but only in moderation, ...and for all of them to be right? I think it is.

TFP: Your post feels right, and I think may have also answered a question or two I've been having about faith and patience in general. Sometimes I tend to try to exercise all the faith I can muster to "make something happen", which, as you said, isn't the point. Often when it doesn't work out quickly, I chalk it up to insufficient faith on my part and get discouraged about the whole thing. I think maybe instead the Lord mostly needs me to exercise "faith unto patience", for lack of a better term. I need to do what I can within reason, but then focus more on leaving the rest in His hands to deal with in His way and timing. Your post reminded me of this from the Guide to the Scriptures section on prayer. With fasting, for example, we sacrifice our desires for food and water, submitting our will to the Lord's. We express gratitude for all we are blessed with, and give fast offerings to help those who need it. This makes us more inclined to have the same attitudes of submission, gratitude, and charity regarding what we are fasting for. To the degree that happens, God is more able to give us the blessings we need most at that time, because we are more able to receive those blessings. It won't work if we fast, pray, or seek beyond God's will and undermine our submission to His will - the essence of faith in Jesus Christ. And the answer to my question. Thanks TFP! Anyway, with my half-relevant personal issues aside, I'll go ahead and actually address the OP now. As far as health goes, I personally think it depends on the person. I have family members who are seriously pushing the health limits just to get through a single 24-hour fast in the first place - not due to any particular condition that we know of, fasting just affects their system a lot more. Trying to do even one of those a week would almost definitely lead to problems for them after a few weeks. I know others who can handle a lot more. They could probably do three days a week short term with no problems. Long story short: it depends on you. Make it a true sacrifice, but seek God's will in how much is appropriate, and don't run faster than you have strength.

Good to have you here, welcome!

Hi Catlick! As others have said, you aren't alone. These kinds of concerns aren't new, and others have overcome them. You can overcome them too, if you want to! Here are some scriptures, quotes, and ideas that came to mind as I read your post. I hope some of them are helpful to you. Warning: Really, really long post ahead. As far as joining the church is concerned, this is probably not an issue. Other than the specific things the missionaries have gone over, as well as following the overall process of faith and repentance in all areas of your life, the rest is between you and your Heavenly Father. You don't need to become a picture-perfect cookie cutter "Mormon." In fact, I don't know that you even should. When Joseph Smith was asked how he was able to govern the early Church so effectively, his response was this: "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." I like this a lot. Heavenly Father doesn't spell out exactly how to live, what to do, etc. He gives us the basic commandments as examples, and then teaches us principles to guide is with the rest. If, for whatever reason, the day comes when you feel in your heart that God wants you to give up rock music and Dateline, then of course you should. For now, focus less on the specifics and more on the principles behind them. Who does Heavenly Father want you to be? Who do you really want to be, and why? Borrowing from earlier in this thread, why are you so strongly considering making this change in your life in the first place? What principles are guiding you that way in spite of the challenges? Stuff like that. Bring the best of your religion with you, and just leave out what isn't right or good. Again, the principles are what matter most. The details have a way of working themselves out with time. From Moroni 7:13 "But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God." Apply this test to anything from Catholicism, in light of the principles the missionaries are teaching you. Keep whatever helps you come closer to Christ. This will actually become easier after you are baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That gift will help you discern (spiritually see and feel) what is good to keep and what is not. This one's a toughie. You probably feel obligated to your family to continue as you are, and you also probably feel somewhat obligated to your LDS friends and to the missionaries to attend there and be baptized. Those issues are real. But keep in mind that what's most important by far is your obligation to God, and to do what you feel in your heart is right. Even if you could make a decision that would please everyone you know, how would you feel about it if you knew that God had wanted something different, that you hadn't followed your heart? Or, from another perspective, what would your decision be if nobody else were involved - not your family, not your friends of any belief, not the missionaries - only you and Heavenly Father. What does He really want? What do you want? It's easier said than done, but as much as you can, leave the rest to Him. It'll work out for the best. Matthew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." No price is too great to find the peace of knowing and feeling that you are doing God's will. You can! It might not be a flawless transition, but you'll get there. There is power in the Atonement of Jesus Christ beyond what you or I can even comprehend. With His help, you can do it. You can resist. You can function without it. You can even be happier than ever before without it - if you choose to do so with all your heart! Also keep in mind that if you quit, get baptized, and then cave once a week later, it isn't the end of the world - as long as you learn from it and keep trying. When we're following Christ and doing our best, mistakes become lessons, not condemnations. They are stepping stones, not roadblocks. You have nothing to fear except the danger of not trying or giving up. Luke 17:6 "And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you." Your first calling in particular is unlikely to be especially demanding. The Lord realizes that this is a transition. He won't give you more than you can handle, although it may look like it at first. It can be a test of our trust in Him, but He provides a way. I can testify that the Lord has helped me immensely in my schooling and family relationships - far beyond what I would have gained on my own with the time I have spent serving in the church, including 2 years away as a full-time missionary. Believe me, any sacrifice you make doing God's will is returned to you a hundredfold (see again Matthew 19:29). That includes the value of your time. I know this is a long one already, but one last thought. The title of this thread says a lot. I may be wrong (let me know if so), but it implies to me that you want to be baptized and you are already trying to move in that direction, but are being restrained from realizing that desire - mainly by fear. If you really have already settled in your mind and heart what is right and true, know that faith is opposed to fear, and can overcome it. Know that "God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. (2 Tim 1:7)" Know that you have access to the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to overcome your fears to the degree that you will trust Him! I think you would really like this talk. It was given by Elder David A. Bednar, of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, not too long ago. Elder Bednar's words given here have helped me work toward overcoming certain fears of my own in the past few months. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/therefore-they-hushed-their-fears?lang=eng I hope something here has helped you. Best of luck!

Welcome!

The human body can survive for a fairly long time with only very basic food. But to perform at a certain level, we need a variety of foods rich in many kinds of nutrients. A lack of any particular one will eventually lead to corresponding physical problems and weaknesses that can hinder us. Athletes, for example, need to eat and hydrate especially well before/during a performance or game in addition to the long term diet, otherwise they will not do the best they are capable of. I think our spirits work in a similar way, and while it isn't necessary to attend the temple to receive revelation, I wouldn't underestimate the short-term or long-term benefits to our spiritual condition that can only be found there.

Hullo and welcome Zionseeker! If I understand you correctly, you're interested and hoping to find greater truth here, but concerned that an answer hasn't come yet, and especially concerned that you seem to be half-expected to ignore that fact and convert regardless? Let me know if that's not right. If it is, this might interest you: I was a missionary also, not too long ago. Interestingly, *most* people I met didn't get a clearly recognizable answer from God immediately upon praying and reading for the first or second time. The more common pattern was that people felt about like you seem to feel, read and prayed every day/most days, came to church, etc. for quite some time first. Then as they more fully understood what they were praying about, and were willing to change their lives accordingly, answers began to come. That's how it has always worked for me personally, too. So faith isn't just getting baptized with no answers from God. For now, faith probably means being willing to "keep waiting for the divine phone to ring." In other words, keep praying, reading, and attending for a good while, and be committed to go through with it fully if and when God answers. *Edit: looks like char beat me to it.

Good to have you here, welcome!

Welcome!

This rings a bell Leah - I made that mistake too. Only difference is that by the time I realized it, I was about 5 seconds from getting in the font to do the baptism, so I bit the bullet and did it anyway. I had a suit, so it wasn't noticeable to anyone who didn't try to give me a hug afterward. I will admit it was a very cold half hour for me. But more than worth it!

Congratulations! This will be a day to remember with joy for the rest of your life. Along with your list of clothing and towels, remember that this isn't something that should be stressful or worrisome to you. It is the beginning of a lifetime of devotion to your Savior, a deepening of your relationship with Him, and an increase of joy and perspective. Do what it takes to be prepared, but don't worry if it doesn't go perfectly smoothly. A few baptisms do, but many include forgotten towels or clothing, multiple attempts, late starts, or whatever. In my experience, those things don't take much away from how amazing you will feel and how you and the Savior together will change your life in the coming years. So look forward to it and enjoy this week! You got this.

Sabbath observance comes first I think. You have the judgment on the "Sabbath-appropriate" question - handle that first if you haven't already. Where does the Lord want you to be? If that's already resolved in favor of family time, I personally see nothing wrong with finding a sub for a calling so you can follow through on plans you had already made in your family calling. From Harold B. Lee: Just don't make a habit of it, or you'll get an even more demanding calling to compensate.

I'm not married and don't pretend to have experience in that field. I also don't know the details of your situation. So I can't relate too well to what you're going through, but here are a few thoughts anyway, for whatever they're worth. Your wife deserves 100%. Your family is second only to the Lord, and so she deserves your whole heart and nothing less. As I understand it, that's what is committed to and promised [covenanted] at marriage. Don't make the mistake of thinking there's room for this friend to have 1% of your heart and your wife to have 99%, because I can guarantee it won't stop there until that line of thinking changes. "No man can serve two masters." So whatever course you end up taking as far as your immediate relationship with her goes, I would recommend first and foremost making sure your end goal in your heart is to end those feelings for anyone besides your wife, including this person. Otherwise you'll end up back at square one eventually, regardless of what you do now. Of course that doesn't mean there is no temptation and no brief moments of attraction to anyone else - that's always there. And of course it's natural and good to have simple gratitude for what your friend has done for you in the past (although under the circumstances I still wouldn't dwell on it). But if she has found a permanent spot in your heart, then action needs to be taken until that changes. Choose which thoughts and feelings you will allow to remain with you and which you will not. Pray often for help to follow through, and stick with it until things shift in your heart. It's not a quick fix, but I don't think anything else will be a permanent solution. As for what specific short-term actions to take, I really don't feel qualified to answer, other than to say I would prayerfully consider what others are saying on this thread. Although I think I'll second Jane_Doe's response in particular.

Great topic, thanks for asking PC! At least to me, meditating is not so much about emptying the mind of absolutely everything as it is about emptying the mind of all things worldly or temporal. So I don't "find anything within" per se, I just try to make room for whatever God wants to put there. My personal prayers are more meaningful and full of gratitude if I take a couple moments before the prayer to meditate and dump the unimportant worries I would have prayed about otherwise. When I don't do this, I find that I tend to spend lots of time praying for things that don't really matter. Meditating with a focus on a scripture or spiritual principle (aka pondering) is fantastic also. I agree that it could potentially be dangerous if done with the wrong intentions. Unusual spiritual experiences happen, but it's on the Lord's timetable and in His way - all we can do is always be spiritually ready for it. If meditation, or anything else, is used to try to force an experience outside the veil or anything like that, there's room for trouble. My opinion.

I feel like it really comes down to that sentence there. Blue's point that God's blessings are primarily spiritual is spot on, it's just that you can't change the spiritual without also affecting the temporal. The commandments and principles that we have been given, when applied and internalized, will naturally bless us temporally also. Eternal truths and principles work everywhere - they are universal - so living the gospel in all aspects of our lives will also ultimately bless us in all aspects of our lives. And the fact that we even have those principles is a gift from God, so wouldn't the results of them be His gift to those who apply them? But the spiritual blessing is what Christ is more concerned about, as blue has said, so we shouldn't be surprised when God allows some of us, like Job, to go through economic or other trials as a means of helping us understand some of these eternal truths, regardless of our righteousness or wickedness. But if we trust Him, it works out in the long run even if that's not in this life for some. Blue, the talk you quoted from in the original post strikes me as having a message not all that different from these verses in Matthew 6. If we're doing what Christ wants us to be doing, He'll take care of us.

From D&C 130: So when we obey eternal laws and principles, we are blessed accordingly. As your quote says, when we are obedient to His direction, He blesses us, including with temporal blessings. Except when He doesn't. The trouble with trying to use something like level of wealth as a general sign for level of righteousness is that God doesn't deal with all His children in exactly the same way, because we're all different. Job was righteous and, perhaps in large part as a consequence of his righteousness, he became wealthy. And then his wealth (and health, family, etc.) were taken from him for a time. His friends took this as a sign of Job's wickedness, but they were unjustified in doing so. Eventually Job learned and grew from the experience, and his wealth was restored. This is just one example - many are called upon to actively sacrifice prosperity for righteousness. Some even give their lives for the gospel, and by extension they also sacrifice 100% of their material possessions. On the flip side, wickedness is often used as a means to obtain wealth. Think Pharisees, secret combinations from the Book of Mormon, etc. etc. Not to mention modern examples. Is this wealth sustainable? Of course not. But if we used wealth as a sign to discern righteousness, we would end up off base in judging a lot of people. My personal thoughts on D&C 130 and the quote you gave are something like this. Obedience to true principles of the gospel will, in general, lead to increased productivity and prosperity, both spiritually and temporally. But individual circumstance and trial can put a roadblock on this. Disobedience to true principles of the gospel will, in general, lead to spiritual and temporal ruin. But sometimes the illusion can be sustained for a time - maybe even a lifetime. God puts spiritual blessings first. He will prosper His righteous followers, but sometimes temporal prosperity needs to be sacrificed for greater spiritual blessings for the individual. The true blessings that come from obedience are the change within the person. That person then has greater capacity to produce wealth based on righteous principles, assuming he or she is not called upon to sacrifice that in one way or another through a trial, calling, or a requirement to direct their efforts elsewhere. Therefore: I feel like it's more about change from the inside, act rather than be acted upon, etc. And if God needs to teach us those eternal principles through a trial which involves poverty and which may last a lifetime, I don't think he'll hesitate, BUT that doesn't negate the eternal truthfulness of the promise. So it really isn't that useful as a "sign" in the sense of judging others or even ourselves based off of it. I do agree with Vort that a better place to see this "sign" in operation is by looking at larger groups and communities. True "Zion" communities, while rare, have always seemed to do pretty well temporally, haven't they? Even this can be deceptive though. Outward appearance of prosperity can be temporarily maintained even while the inner core that generates true wealth is decaying due to wickedness, even in a larger community or a nation. And sometimes an entire people needs to be tried, like the people of Alma who were briefly brought into bondage by the Lamanites and the people of Amulon. So, my opinion: obedience brings spiritual change within us, which gives us the qualities that naturally allow us to produce more material abundance - if God doesn't have something better in mind.

Thanks everyone!