laronius

This thought has crossed my mind. We say this veil causes us to forget and then we stop right there not considering what exactly that veil is. When mortals come back into the presence of God a change must take place to their bodies to allow them to endure it. So we know that our fallen bodies do place limits on us. Though I am unsure if all of our premortal life comes flooding back to us the moment we die or if some restrictions remain temporarily. That I am not sure.

It does make one consider other potential parallels such as the atonement which "covers" our sins. Interesting stuff.

I'll get right to the question: Is the "veil of forgetfulness" and the temple veil: A. The same thing B. Related C. Two totally separate things When I say related I mean closely related as all parts of the doctrine are somehow related. Feel free to expound upon your position. I was listening to the hymn If you could hie to Kolob when it got my mind heading down this path of thought.

This is an interesting comparison and I do like @Just_A_Guy's response. I would also add that each case may simply have been the result of revelation. Daniel may have been inspired to keep praying like he always had because of the miracle that would take place whereas with Alma nothing good may have come from praying out loud so he was inspired to have his people pray in their hearts.

Is it fair to say that all "inspiration" comes from one of three sources: the Spirit, ourselves, or the devil? If so then gut feeling is really just a manifestation of one or more of those sources and could vary from one person to the next. I personally don't like the terminology because it doesn't acknowledge the pros and/or cons of each source.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think charity or empathy ever cause stress. Charity and empathy exist totally independent of any expected reciprocation or reaction from the intended receiver. So if stress is present it's for another reason. My guess, and I could be wrong, is that it's coming from a mistaken understanding of your responsibility to your sister in law. God loves all of his children, even those he knows he will cast out at the last day. And so he helps them progress as much as they are willing to. Does this cause sadness? Yes. Sadness and charity and empathy are compatible. But God does not stress about it and neither should we. It's not your responsibility to save your sister in law. It's not even your responsibility to help your sister in law, as that requires something you have no control over: her accepting your help. So my recommendation would be to ask the Lord what He requires of you in this situation, do it, and then stand still (mentally and emotionally) and have faith in Him who will do everything that can be done to help her.

You definitely need both, a solid idea of where you you want to go and a game plan (system) for how to get there. I have also been terrible at following through on goals and I've about decided that the problem, or at least a major problem, is that my goals are generally based on what I know I ought to do and not necessarily what I want to do. It's the whole heart vs mind conundrum and unless we have an enormous amount of willpower, which apparently I don't, we have to find a way to align our heart and our mind.

I think the practical application of the eternal family doctrine to couples is pretty straightforward. They remain united enjoying the continuation of the seeds, I assume perpetually. We call it eternal marriage. When it comes to the children though I have often wondered what's the point? In the ideal situation they will grow up and get sealed to their own spouse and start their own family. And to top it off, to my knowledge there is no covenant made between parents and children. Neither do we speak of them as our eternal children nor us as their eternal parents (lower case p). But if we look closer at the doctrine of sealing we find that the sealing of parents to children is generally couched in the broader doctrine of the welding together of all generations back to our father Adam with whom God made covenant and then later renewed with Abraham. Entering into this Abrahamic covenant relationship is clearly referenced in the temple sealing ceremony. In doing so we can become the "seed of Abraham" and potential heirs to all that the Father has. Our Father in Heaven's kingdom is patriarchal in nature, it is a kingdom of family and families. He seeks to exalt all of His family and this should be our goal as well. This is far more than simply being able to hangout with them in the eternities and through the sealing power we assist our families in that endeavor.

Jacob 2:21 unites your two points "all flesh is of the dust; and for the selfsame end hath he created them, that they should keep his commandments and glorify him forever." This got me thinking about the doctrine of our "purpose," which I think is synonymous with how "work" is being used here. I asked myself if one's work/purpose is inherent with one's existence or is one's work/purpose something we simply choose. My initial thought was that it was a choice and that we are simply left with the consequences of whatever it is we choose to pursue. For example, I can choose to pursue that which is contrary to God's will and as such make it my work/purpose. But the scriptures appear to teach that work/purpose is inherently tied to existence. In 2 Nephi 2:11-12 Lehi teaches Jacob that opposition, including opposing choices, was vital otherwise "there would have been no purpose in the end of [our] creation." But in the next verse he takes it even further and says, if we connect the first and last "if then" type statements: "if ye shall say there is no law" then "there is no God" and "all things must have vanished away." A few chapters later, ch 7, Jacob seems to have taken this teaching to heart and teaches: vs 7 "if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not..." So we exist to not simply "become for ourselves" as a generation of Nephites sought to do but rather for a specific purpose, a purpose tied directly to God's own existence. It makes me wonder of the eternal fate of any who fall short of that purpose. If we are created for a specific purpose and our very existence is tied to that purpose, can we exist eternally in a condition where that purpose is not accomplished?

Whenever I read sci-fi or fantasy I personally don't read anything into it. I appreciate reading good principles being taught but that is the extent of it. I guess you could have him convert to the gospel and that would ease any dilemmas. 😀

This reminds me of D&C 19 where the Lord explains the use of some terminology he chooses to use. 6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment. 7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

I'm not a slob but I really don't like cleaning. I'll work outside in the yard all day and enjoy it but cleaning is a necessary evil in my book. I guess I just don't derive the same satisfaction from it as others. So I was already to take you up on your offer, even for the small fee, until you said teach me. Now I'll have to look elsewhere as clearly Traveler's Cleaning Service is not what I'm looking for. Sorry.

Fine. You are allowed to talk about any subject you want while cleaning. 😀

Then you are welcome to my house anytime. You clean and I'll deal. 😃

You are correct. Most of my family lives nearby and this isn't really extended family. This is only siblings and their families so we see each other fairly often. But I wasn't really looking for something terribly time consuming or elaborate either. For instance a couple years ago I put together a slide show of old family photos with funny remarks. Everyone enjoyed it and it seemed to add something more to the occasion. A funny experience. Some years back a guy from India showed up at church looking for service opportunities. Soon he was coming to church and we became friends. I invited him over for Thanksgiving as he had never experienced it. At the end of the day he says to me: So Thanksgiving is about eating a lot and watching football? I laughed and said pretty much. Of course to someone from India which has some pretty elaborate celebrations this probably seemed pretty underwhelming for one of our major holidays. But it did make me wonder if there was more we could do to enhance the meaning of our celebration. I guess that is what I'm always looking for. Though your version of Thanksgiving sounds pretty good too.

When my family gets together for Thanksgiving dinner there is usually somewhere between 40-50 in attendance. We usually just eat then the kids start running around and the adults just start talking. There's nothing wrong with this but I feel like there ought to be something more. So I'm hoping to get some ideas about what your family likes to do. It can be spiritual or just fun but something to make the experience more than just an elaborate picnic.

Just like forgiving others all the other Christlike virtues are sanctifying and ennobling in a way wholely independent of the response from others. This is where I fall short at times, choosing how to act or not act based on perceived response of others rather than making a choice purely because it is the right thing to do. Great story @Grunt. Edit: though I will say it does make it a little tricky when trying to help people be accountable or not enabling them in bad decisions. But if ever in doubt error on the side of compassion.

I personally don't worry too much about eating what I store in my year supply, at least not enough to allow it to be a hindrance to getting prepared. It is simply insurance to me for which I'm glad I didn't have to eat when it gets old. I don't eat canned vegetables either but I do keep some just in case. I also try to keep a decent amount of frozen veggies in my freezer which I do eat. Also, don't take an all or nothing mentality. If you have some room for food storage then use what you got. Better than none at all.

Great story @NeuroTypical! I think it paints well the transition from focusing on a problem to a person that inevitably happens when we take a Christlike approach to dealing with unpleasant situations. Parts of the story made me recall past experiences of my own, some of which I could have handled better or at least spent more of my effort addressing the needs that can't be seen with the eye.

Well as of this afternoon I am 20 cases closer to a completed food storage. It helps when one of the Church's food storage centers is just down the street. Thanks for beating the food storage drum @mirkwood.

A year ago in general conference they had some talks about year supply so I decided to take the first step of making sure I had a three month supply. I made a list of what I needed and then spent the next month acquiring it all. Most of it is stuff I use though things like canned vegetables I won't. But I bought them strictly as insurance so I acknowledged that up front. Now that it's been a year I think it's time to reassess and restock. Additionally I have some boxes of traditional year supply items but I definitely need to add to it. Having done some backpacking and a lot of camping I could throw a 72 hr kit together pretty quick if I had to. What I would be interested in @mirkwood are some ideas of things you've come across that you think would be really helpful to have that may not fall on your typical year supply list, if there is anything. For example I had my brother-in-law build me a rocket stove that utilizes relatively very little fuel when cooking. Also, I like to keep on hand a couple Swedish torches (the name may vary) that produce sustained heat, light and a cooking surface while requiring very little fuel.

Many of the acts of love performed by Jesus would probably fall into the category of things most people would do if they had the power to do so. So I don't think we can always identify charity solely by it's manifestation. A person's motives are not always apparent and two identical acts by different people could have different motives: love, guilt, pride, etc. Charity is, after all, love but in it's pure, divinely enhanced state. So is it only charity when it's manifested as an act someone with less pure love would not perform? I think there is as much an increased depth as there is breadth when someone acquires the gift of charity such that an identical act may be performed with purer love. But I do get your point @Fether. Some manifestations of love do not come as naturally as others and perhaps may manifest closer proximity to that divine attribute we seek. Where is this flooding taking place? Apparently it has not been on my radar.

Translating is as much about ideas as it is words. So it would seem that on some level someone who understood the doctrine, in the other language, would have to be involved to ensure the accuracy of the translation. The only stories I've heard about translation have involved members.

This is a great point. The spiritual creation had to happen first and not just some vague idea of how things are to be. Having vague hopes or belief system is going to lack the power to truly bring about the reality we seek. I think it's closely tied to the hope for a better world principle.

Last night at a family party my sister was talking about her "Creation Journal." What she does is write down how she wants the following day to go, how she wants to "create" her day. She then acts on that plan. She said she was amazed at how often her plans come together in creating what she had envisioned. Apart from the obvious benefits that come from planning effectively it made me ponder on the potential spiritual effects of planning with the thought of creating. This reminded me of a talk by Pres Uchtdorf from some years ago. Here are some of the excerpts: The desire to create is one of the deepest yearnings of the human soul. No matter our talents, education, backgrounds, or abilities, we each have an inherent wish to create something that did not exist before... Creation brings deep satisfaction and fulfillment. We develop ourselves and others when we take unorganized matter into our hands and mold it into something of beauty... To what end were we created? We were created with the express purpose and potential of experiencing a fulness of joy. Our birthright—and the purpose of our great voyage on this earth—is to seek and experience eternal happiness. One of the ways we find this is by creating things... Creation means bringing into existence something that did not exist before—colorful gardens, harmonious homes, family memories, flowing laughter... The more you trust and rely upon the Spirit, the greater your capacity to create. That is your opportunity in this life and your destiny in the life to come... As you take the normal opportunities of your daily life and create something of beauty and helpfulness, you improve not only the world around you but also the world within you. I have often wondered about the amount of time we spend in the temple learning about THE Creation. Obviously it has significant meaning in the plan of salvation. But when we consider our potential destiny as creators ourselves it makes me wonder if there aren't additional lessons we are supposed to learn and apply right here and now in preparation for that future. I know from personal experience that knowledge is power, specifically spiritual knowledge. For example, I am more apt to make better choices in what I eat when I consider it from the perspective of following the word of wisdom than simply what nutritionists might say, even if it the same advice. This makes me think I ought to develop a more creation oriented perspective in making plans, setting goals and just an overall approach to life. That might give me an added boost to accomplish the things I set out to do and help prioritize where I spend my time and energy. Any thoughts?