Iggy

I wrote this to my husband when we were first getting to know each other. Now let me add a bit more, Who has good manners at the dinner table Who has good personal hygiene. Who listens to me, doesn't interrupt, or discounts what I have to say Granted these attributes are what I was looking for in a husband, but even the most homely man can be physically attractive when he walks with God.

Color me confused but @Carborendum it was @MarginOfError who made the statement you quoted? ?

Perhaps we will reach a time when we have all knowledge, but it seems apparent to me at first that we will still need to gain knowledge when we get to the next life. It is a constant progression until we reach that time when we are like our Father. IT MAY be that this is a very short time, but to me it infers that we may still be gaining knowledge in the Celestial Realm at least at first. AMEN to that. Thank you, thank you. Oh, did I say AMEN.

My Temple Prep instructors went above and beyond their calling, they handed out three to four scriptures for us to read AND ponder during the week (there were four of us taking the class), but they also called twice during the week to see how our reading was going, did we have any questions, and then gave us two more scriptures to read. Every time I entered that class I got shivers-n-goosebumps. That was one of my responses to the testimony from the Holy Ghost. Oh, how I love me my shivers-n-goosebumps!

To add to my Okay is Thanks Bro Jones for catching that. At the online store, it can also be downloaded as a PDF which is free also!!

@Grunt your ward should have Temple Preparedness teachers, talk with your Bishop and tell him that you want the class. You will then be given the manuals, pamphlets, etc. Once you finish all of the classes with your Ward TP teachers, it should take 6 weeks, give or take. You will then have an interview with the Stake TP person. THEN you will have your recommend interview with your Bishop, and follow it up with your Stake President. You will be taught from the manual: Endowed From on High: TemplePrep. . . . https://deseretbook.com/p/endowed-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual-lds-distribution-center-72702?ref=recommend-product&variant_id=26356-paperback Which is available through the church for 3.00 w/free shipping, or you should get it for free from your TemplePrep teacher.

Why oh why can were not select more than one reaction emoji??? @JohnsonJones your post nearly made me spit my Pero out all over my keyboard! Thanks for my very first chuckle this cold [to me it is cold @ 39 degrees] this morning. 😁

I am oh so looking forward to it.

Aren't you going to church? Why not?

The paperback book by Thomas Wayment on Amazon sells for $25.55. The one by Valetta, in paperback, sells for $32.99. Neither are all that pricey, BUT "Jesus Christ and the World of the New Testament" is $119.74. 😲

You get also.

Where or where is the thumbs down emoji? 🖕 what is this one????? Oh, here it is 👎, this needs to be in the react bar.

Explain, please.

I have worked in restaurants (3 stars), cafe's/diners and owned my own Tavern (only sold bagged potato chips, hot dogs, and my homemade chili). Never did the restaurant employees get angry/rude or show any distaste at customers who walked in the door at 5 minutes till closing. The hour listed for closing was the time the doors got locked to prevent more people from walking in - but it didn't stop customers from leaving. The kitchen closed (grills & fryers turned off) AFTER the last customer walked out the door. The waitstaff, hostess, and bus-staff would clean AROUND the late diners. The kitchen staff would clean in the kitchen around the cook. ALL overhead cleaning was done once a week, two hours before opening. The kitchen was deep cleaned by employees other than the kitchen staff two to three hours after the last customer left on a once a week schedule. In my tavern, the only time the cleaning stuff was brought out, was to get the last lingering customers to leave. It was 2:45 AM - the last call was at 1:30 am to give them time enough to drink that last single drink and leave. At 2 AM ALL of the drinks were removed from the tables/bar top and dumped down the drain. The evening shift were to clean up the back bar, wash the tables/seats down. Sweep the back bar and mop with Pine-Sol and HOT water. They were also to clean the two bathrooms with HOT Pine-Sol water. ALL of the surfaces in both bathrooms were tile/stainless/porcelain. We also had carpeting on 3/4 of the floors - that got vacuumed also. Plus the evening shift restocked the cooler behind the bar and made sure all of the glasses, pitchers, AND ashtrays were clean and put away properly. Most of this was done while the last lingering customers were there, BUT they were never vacuumed under, and the table tops where they say was not cleaned UNTIL after the 2:30 AM time. As for the restaurants, cafes, diners where I worked as either hostess or waitress - the only time you were allowed to sweep under them, was after they had left. Never, never, never was any dusting/cleaning overhead of them done. NEVER! Once when I was eating at a Sizzler's, an employee began cleaning the sneeze protector during open hours. People were there getting food. She had dropped gunk into the salad dressing section. I got up, went into the kitchen and asked for the manager. I told him what was happening out front. One look and he walked over to her and asked her to go to the kitchen, then he had the kitchen staff come out and remove ALL of the food - asking the customers there to put down their dishes and just wait about 5 minutes, then they could come back and get new plates of fresh food. I never saw that employee again. One thing I did notice after that was the manager sitting at every table looking around him, under the tables, up above-around him. He would make notes. He even turned chairs over looking at the bottoms. My friend and I usually came at opening hour, and occasionally Hubby and I went there around an hour before closing. This manager did his *surveillance* shortly after opening hours. Hubby, friend and I did notice was after this new manager took over, the place was clean and shiny. Friend and I went every Thursday, at 11 AM for our lunch before we did our grocery shopping. We had the same waitress every time. After a couple of months went by we asked her how she liked working with the new manager. She said nearly all of the employees loved him. He cleaned the place up - literally. Got rid of the dead weight employees, had the staff cleaning EVERYTHING. He even closed the place down for a week so everything in the kitchen could be deep cleaned as well as the restaurant. He even got them ALL pay raises, but he stressed that they had to earn that pay. She told us that since the massive cleaning, and pay raises their morale was lifted and that reflected through to the customers which resulted in better tips. So, @clbent04regarding the employee who was dusting over the eating customers, you should have asked for the manager/person in charge and complained about it whether or not it was done above you.

Ok, color me dense - what in the heck does SJW stand for? And PLEASE, please @MormonGator will you stop with all the abbreviations in your posts - 95% of them I cannot understand, consequently I skip 90% of your posts. Thank you in advance, Iggy

@zil how old are you anyway? Because that is not the general education I got. In the general public school education, I received it did teach me to think. From kindergarten to third grade I was taught that the peer interaction I learned at home was to be put to use in the real world. From fourth to sixth grade I learned a lot from rote. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, basic vocabulary, sentence structure, and very basic music. From seventh grade to my senior year came the heavier thinking and learning. My US current events classes were a combination of world events, world politics as well as US events, US politics. At the same time, I was taking Washington State History. All of those classes made one think! At least the course teachers made one think and not just read and then give a test on Friday before you forgot what you read. BUT that was in the years 1957 to 1970. Back when the words politically correct had a totally different meaning. Also back when parents did NOT expect nor demand that the public school system raise their children. Starting in the seventh grade I began to suffer from migraine headaches. As a result, I missed many days of school. Fortunately, my teachers brought my missed work to my home and Mom and Dad helped me with it. Once the pain of my headache was gone - it took me several days to be able to read all of the words clearly and to write coherently, so they read the assigned work to me, then the questions from the homework. As I answered, one of them wrote out my answers. During classes, all of my teachers taught us to learn & study it out within the box that the textbooks provided. BUT they also taught us how to think *Out Side* the box. In my senior Language Arts class about midway in the year, we were given the new textbooks, in manuscript form, that the Freshmen would be receiving in the upcoming year. It was asked of us to spend the next month or two, reading AND correcting it. This was also done in my Washington State History class. What happened in both classes was that even after we finished correcting the many, many errors of both textbooks, we continued bisecting and thinking *outside* the boxes. My classes carried on to my home. Even though in my Junior & Senior year I left school at 11:30 am, dashed home on foot [total of 4 city blocks], changed out of school clothes and into work clothes, grabbed my bagged lunch and the books I had homework in and took three buses to get to work. Ate my lunch, read & worked on my homework while riding on the bus. Worked from 1 pm until 9 pm, then caught three buses to get home. At the kitchen table where I ate my warmed over dinner, I sat with Mom [Dad was now at work] and discussed what I had learned from my school homework. This was more than just repeating what I had read/memorized. We got into some rather deep discussions. Oh, two of my *textbooks* were The Seattle Times and The Seattle-Post Intelligencer. Since I graduated I haven't kept up with what my two younger siblings or their children have been taught in their schools, nor with what they have actually learned. What I have observed are the young adults who I hired in this town back in 1979 to 1982 who were 21 to 25 years old at the time who couldn't spell worth a darn, had difficulty doing such simple math and couldn't count back change from transactions. If the cash register didn't do it for them, they were totally lost. I had to teach them in order to balance. Part of the hiring interview was to teach them our register, ringing up purchases, taking the money and counting it back to the customer. NOT just dumping a bunch of coins and a wad of bills into their hand or worse yet on the counter in front of them. Parents have the responsibility to make sure their children are learning at school, to do their own disciplining and not expect the public school system to do it for them. I absolutely cherish those conversations with my parents. The dinner table talk was about us kids. I had three older siblings and three younger. ALL of us took our turn to relate our day at school. Dad, Mom, and Grandma listened and asked questions. Not once did we get lectured to. The only time table talk was NOT about current events or school work was during Sunday brunch after church. THEN it was about what we all learned at church. So, when did parents abdicate their inherent responsibility and turn it over to the public school system? When did they stop communicating with their offspring? When did homeschool mean that their children never went to public school? My parents supplemented our public school learning aka homeschooled all of their children, without ever thinking of removing us from public school.

So now they have NO idea you are LDS and really don't drink.

I received help in the form of groceries and commodities. I was newly separated with no financial help from trying to get divorced from hubby. On the wages, I was making I could pay rent, car insurance, internet, phone, and limited groceries but not tithing. With counsel from my Branch President, we agreed that I pay tithing, rent, car insurance, internet, and phone. The church would provide groceries and commodities - on a temporary basis. Bishops Storehouse was nearly 175 miles from me, so I ordered on a form, the RS looked it over, suggested some more items or to add to what I had asked for like toilet paper - the box for one meant one roll not one package of four! Same for bath soap. This was an order for two weeks worth. Then I had to be at the drop off site with my own bags or boxes to pick up what I had ordered. Often I was asked by both the Branch President and the RSP to also pick up the order for a young family which I did. For the 6 months, I was on it, the only raw vegetable was broccoli. Made several calls to my older sister asking for different recipes for broccoli other than eating it raw or steaming it. I also ordered powdered milk. Never once made it to drink or for cereal - but did use it exclusively to cook with. Now, there were only four people other than myself who knew I was on Church Welfare. The Branch President, RS President, and the young couple. All were considerate, discreet, helpful and caring. The young wife asked me on how to make more from scratch - not only was I glad to help and in reading the forms a bit better found a wonderful recipe book put out by the church. I ordered it and discovered that nearly all of the recipes I already had from my Mom and several of the cookbooks I already had - so I gifted it to her. They received help for only three months after which the husband received a substantial pay increase at work. For me, it was six months like I said, when I received enough pay increases which enabled me to pay all of my bills AND food & commodities. At my first interview with the Branch President, he asked me questions geared at finding whether I understood Need from Want. I was not upset or offended. Actually, even though he was decades younger than my parents, his questions so reminded me of them teaching me when I was maybe 10 or 12. Boy Howdy do I know the difference between Need and Want.

Well, I googled it, and here is the link to Wikipedia about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strengthening_Church_Members_Committee Doesn't come across to me as the church has people monitoring media sites, private emails, or phone calls. It does come across as the church does monitor NEWS stories, letters sent to the church from those who are angry with the church and/or leaders. Who are very close to becoming apostate. Don't know why this should be alarming to anyone.

@Grunt the more you 'Walk With God, Walk With the Holy Ghost', the more you will hear/feel the Holy Ghost guiding you. Children raised in the church are taught in Primary how to hear the Holy Ghost. As they mature in the gospel, they are taught what is from the Holy Ghost and what is not. You have heard the phrases ~ Still small voice. Burning in my heart/bosom. Well, I have only 'heard' the still small voice' once. Have never had a 'burning in my heart/bosom'. For me, I receive a Clarity of thought and/or Peace that overcomes the confusion of my soul. When I was really, really inactive I called this gift Women's Intuition. When I actually heeded it, harm/chaos was averted. It wasn't until after I came back into activity and married my PH holder, active in church, endowed & temple going, eternal companion that he helped me to understand that my Women's Intuition was really the Gift of Discernment. Now, what is really special, wonderful about this gift is that it works for more than face to face encounters. It works over the telephone, written letters, internet(forums) even when I watch taped interviews. The more I study the gospel, read the scriptures, follow and stay on that narrow path, the easier it is to 'feel or sense' the Holy Ghost pushing that Discernment button. My husband will ask me to read/watch/listen to something and to seek out my response using my Discernment. Before I do, I pray for guidance. Always I am led in the correct path. Always husband listens to me and follows the correct path. @Grunt follow the councils of all of our prophets, read the scriptures, pray, ask your questions, pray, stop and wait for Father's responses to your prays. Accept the No's that He gives, in time it will become clear why He said no. Oh, and did I mention to pray? 😊

Oh, and one other thing, YES there is at least one other forum where animosity, baiting and not being clear when you are tossing in sarcastic remarks really exists. Where the discussions can easily go deep into church doctrine and are always mature, documented with LDS doctrinal/scripture links. BUT this forum is by Invitation only. Thus the trolls, underage children and the immature young people from college/university who seek to bomb forums with their seasonal crap don't get a foothold. There is lightheartedness - we joke, tease and play around. But NEVER regarding the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or the doctrines of His church, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have had all of my questions answered there. In a loving, informative way. We bolster each other - - -We Minister to each other even though we are from every 'corner' on Earth.

I have been on this forum going through at least two forum name changes, then now this is the third name change. Yes, the trolls are awful, they come out more frequently during school holidays. High School, as well as College/University. Children must play and have their fun. [this said sarcastically] Again yes, we have investigators and drivebys. We need to be very honest with them. Post links to back up our responses, AND NOT be sarcastic, flippant, etc. in our responses to their questions. Sometimes I feel like the drivebys are searching for the strength to do what they know is the right thing to do - - - such as going to their Bishop, or even to professional counselors. Then there are those who challenge pretty much everything. The label I give them is Devil's Advocates. In my Branch, we have two PH holders who do this all the time in Gospel Doctrine, Priesthood, 5th Sundays, AND on FaceBook! My Husband is the Sunday School President, he leads the Teachers Council. During one such class, the Stake President was there as a class member. The most vocal of the Devil's Advocate spoke out about three times, and it cowed two of the members who were voicing a class problem and was looking for help. The Stake President then stood up and read to us a couple of scriptures regarding how sacred ALL of His work is. Not only Sacrament but all of the classes in His Church. The Devil's Advocate has NO place under the Lord's roof here in any of His houses. Same for each member home, as that is also or should be blessed and treated as a House of the Lord. I so wanted to stand up and shout AMEN & Hallejuah! I remained seated and winked at my hubby. The following Sunday during Gospel Doctrine, the most vocal of the DA chimed in with his sarcastic DA verbiage, this time I stood up, turned around to face him and asked him did he not hear, understand AND comprehend what Stake President said last Sunday in Teacher's Council regarding NEVER bringing in or being the Devils Advocate in the Lord's sacred home? I didn't wait for his answer, just sat down and then answered the question that the teacher had asked. Mr DAdvocate [Never Bro. in this instance] was quiet and left his advocacy outside the Meetinghouse doors for months. The other one, well I have come to the conclusion that he is about as smart as a box of rocks and incapable of learning that one NEVER brings the devil into any of God's houses. Being contrary and argumentative is NOT the way to get Good attention. All you really get is Dismissive Attention. Your last group, the ones you feel who dance around apostasy. My heart aches when I read or hear these members who are on the very edges of apostasy. OR who have stepped over the line and brag of it. Then when they are my family members - such as my little sister's oldest daughter who has proclaimed that she no longer can belong to this church. She can no longer sustain a self-proclaimed prophet who endangers children. The claptrap she stated in her reasoning was so absurd that it took me months to formulate a response WITH backup documentation. I didn't post it to her fb page - where by the way she and her husband announced they're denouncing the church- but sent it to her via email. I never heard back from her. She didn't Unfriend me, she hasn't blocked/bounced my emails since. Nearly a year ago her 34-year-old husband was felled by an aneurysm at the nape of his neck. He was in a coma for 3 days, then in the wee hours of the 4th, there was NO brain activity. On the 5th-day life support was shut off. When they announced they were leaving the church my heart broke. Not so much for her and hubby, BUT for their four children, the youngest was six at the time. When I read about my nephew-in-laws death, all I could think of was at least you are still sealed, that is IF you did not request to be removed from the church's records. To my knowledge, the sealing of thier children [all were born in the covenant] will always be there. I was afraid that Neice & Nephew-In-Law were flirting with apostasy, but there was nothing more on their FB pages. But there hasn't been anything on there. Not even on their three older children's FB pages either. They are always in my prayers, once a month I submit their names to the temple. If she ever contacts me regarding this, I will be bluntly honest. She and I have always been brutely honest with each other. Now here is my once in this forum's lifetime gripe/whining: Those active-in-church members who find it necessary to make what they consider *Cutesy* quips regarding Church Doctrine or Church Policy peppered into the serious, factual discussions, with or with the haha, j/k emoji(s) to accompany their sarcastic, wit-less remarks. It totally confuses the investigators, as well as the truthful doctrine/policy, that is being explained. If they do this in church during any of the classes, they are who I label Devil's Advocates. Want to be funny, tell LDS theme or Meme jokes, then put it in the correct topic header NOT as a response to an investigators question. Trolls: Why in all that is sacred, do those in this forum who KNOW that it is a Troll continue in trying to explain/defend the Gospel and in essence continue to FEED them? My question is [and this could actually get me put into time out here on the forum] where are the moderators during this? If I can see after the OP Trolls third response that the OP is a Troll, why can't any of the Moderators see this? That is all.

I began attending church at age 8, tagging along with my older brother as he went on Sunday's so he could be around all those *good looking* girls. I liked church. Even sitting in the very over-warm chapel, and then sitting with all those immature boys who were pinging spit-wads at any & everybody during classes. My two older sisters got baptized a year after our brother - so, I heard the discussions at home from about four different sets of missionaries. They never were there for me though. At age 14 I went to the Bishop and asked to be baptized. He thought I was already - but after checking the records my parents and myself set a date. At age 18 I left the church. I didn't leave because I lost my testimony. It was because of the hurtful, malicious rumor-mongering of the Bishop's wife and her cronies, who by the way were also the RS Presidency. I overheard their spiteful gossip as I was getting our coats from the coat racks, and again while I was waiting in the corner of the large foyer for my siblings to bring the car around. Spiteful gossip about my family, spreading rumors about my Mom, Dad, and Grandma. As well as other partial member families. I didn't know to go to the Bishop with what I heard. Or even to go to my YW Presidency. I just quit the church. In the 30 years, I was inactive, none of these 5 reasons were applicable. 1. Do I believe that the Book of Mormon is true? Then, during and now after coming back into activity (1998), I have always believed it is true. 2. Am I as actively searching for reasons the Church might be true as I am searching for reasons it’s not? It never crossed my mind that the Church aka Gospel was not true. Even back as a teen, I knew the difference between a building populated by like-minded peoples and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 3. Am I doing His will? Following His commandments? Thinking back on this, I wonder if I really knew what His will was. I certainly knew what His basic commandments are - and am learning what His newer commandments are now - what each of His living Prophets have told us. 4. Do I want it to be true? Want? There is no Want as it IS true. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is true. 5. Does the good outweigh the bad? Bad? There is no Bad. In my mind how can the Gospel of Jesus Christ ever be bad? What I struggle with are the human beings that are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As I struggle with getting my medications taken and in the proper doses, which affect my levels of pain & emotions, I struggle with NOT exploding emotionally at and because of the human-ess of the members. I have a very hard time NOT telling certain members that they are dumber than a can of rocks. Or that In My Humble [or not so humble] opinion this certain PH holder should keep his hands off of me and all of the women within his arms reach. I also have pretty much reached my wits end with my branch NOT assisting me in regards to my not being able to hear anywhere except in the chapel when the speaker(s) stand at the podium and use the microphone that is attached there. Why should I attend when I cannot hear. It is beyond frustrating. Especially when I have told nearly everyone that I cannot hear. But regarding the Gospel, no I have never doubted it. Regarding the counsel we have received from our Prophets, Apostles, aka the Lord's servants - Nope, never had a problem. With the history of the church being withheld from us. My thoughts have always been: Baby steps. Milk before pablum/cereal, pablum/cereal before meat.

George H.W. Bush, our 41st President, passed away Friday, 30 Nov 2018 https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/01/politics/george-h-w-bush-dead/index.html

Wow, thank you @NeuroTypicalsomewhere in my bookcases or boxed somewhere I have a NOT so old as yours, but older than the hymn books we now are using. I was the Librarian when we got all new, updated editions and were told to remove the old ones. All but 6 copies were taken by the membership. I took one and sent the rest to DI.