Rob Osborn

Aye, I live just outside of Blackfoot in Groveland. Most of my non-member friends know me and my church callings and so they ask cause I talk a lot about stuff.

I think this is an area of law. Certainly life could be made another way but it would be breaking divine law of the which God himself is bound to to remain God.

And yet, I also live in the IF temple district and pretty much all my nonmember friends asked about it...But then again, different circumstances may apply.

In reality all of our covenants, and thus, all of tge gospel are sacred. And yet, here we are discussing them. There is a defined line about what we can and cannot speak about regarding the temple and the work we do there. Generally, the basic overview is all made public by the church itself through gospel manuals and lessons, talks, magazine and internet pages and articles, temple open houses, temple visitor centers, etc. Even the things I talk about from time to time are on the public side of the line. We as members should be aware what we can and cant discuss.

Mainly, the only ones who really care are the members. And then, they dont want to talk about it. Its a giant paradox.

Well, I dont have friends who live in a swamp or a lagoon...

Aye, and I have never discussed the material we are asked not to. Some think we cant even discuss the names of rooms in the temple like the telestial room or the baptistry. This is all public knowledge and free info for anyone going through an openhouse.

Every nonmember I have come to know and befriend asks me what happens inside of temples.

Just as a refresher, for those who are unaware what happens inside our temples- https://www.lds.org/temples/inside-temples?lang=eng

We have this problem as LDS where we are afraid to mention anything whatsoever from inside of temples. Much of what goes on inside of temples is public knowledge. What we dont discuss are the sacred parts and details of our covenants with accompanying signs, tokens and rites.

So I quoted a statement by the first Prseidency. What part are you missing?

Really? https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/temple-worship

Its public knowledge.

I just have one parting question- How could David have fallen from his "exaltation"? One must enter into the everlasting covenant to have blessings of exaltation. He was entered into his exaltation, then he murdered and fell from that covenant.

I'm not even gonna quote section 132 where it says otherwise. Good day.

It's obvious you are not reading or understanding section 132 correctly. Section 132 explains that with David, he did fall from his exaltation because he had entered into the priesthood covenant and then murdered. So yes, David did assent unto Christ's death. We aren't really getting anywhere. You believe your way, I believe my way, and oh well-being we disagree. Time to move on.

Some good insights. It's interesting that even in LDS theology there are massive holes. We certainly have a long ways to go to get all the doctrine lined up. My own view is that none of us earn Celestial glory in this life, it's too hard. Celestial glory requires perfection which is complete spotlessness and sinlessness. Our progression takes us through the telestial kingdom with it's glory of the Holy Ghost for those worthy, to the terrestrial with it's glory of the resurrected Christ for those worthy, to the Celestial with it's glory of the presence of the Father. Much of our progression will happen in the millennium. Paramount to the conversation though is the fact that in order to be saved from hell one must become perfectly spotless as the scriptures teach. This means that the person must become changed from their fallen and carnal state to a godly state full of righteousness. Christ will not nor cannot save a person in their sins. Said another way, Christ cannot nor will not save a person who has not taken upon him or herself all of the saving laws and ordinances by covenant in the Lord's holy temple. Living by all of these covenants are not possible on this Earth. But, they will be available in their fullest in the next life during the millennium. Have you ever wondered what we will be doing for a thousand years on the earth void of Satan? Perfecting ourselves through Christ. Thus, at the end of the millennium Christ will then present the kingdom, as a singular kingdom, to the Father perfectly spotless. Christ will save no others. This is where I like to bring in the parable of the wheat and the tares. In the parable the wheat represent the children of God- the righteous. The tares are the children of the devil- the wicked. In the end, at harvest, the wheat are all stored in the garners to be crowned with Celestial glory while the tares are all bound to be burned. This saving the wheat with Celestial glory is the singular kingdom Christ has made spotless. There are no other options, only those two. 65 Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be; 66 While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire. (D&C 101:65-66)

So, you want to or not?

The feeling I get from the temple is it explains more of the covenants and symbolism. That doesn't take away but builds upon Adam and Eve as literal people who really existed.

We as mortals have a very hard time in seeing the stages of men's progression. We are so far shortsighted. An analogy- just like kids just learning how to ride a bike and we fail over and over and start to think it's impossible to do it. We are like these kids learning and thinking it impossible that it's possible that it can be accomplished. The truth is that everyone who starts learning to ride a bike eventually do end up learning how. Some may learn really fast and others it takes some time but everyone who begins learning eventually get it or walk away from it forever. I think it could be worded to say God's work and glory is to bring to pass the Celestial glory of man and all those who accept the Savior get there.

They all have truth. As for scriptures, the Moses account is most truthful in my opinion. The temple presents information from a somewhat different angle so in that regards it's not comparable. The problem with "allegorical" is it's connotation with fictional characters. Adam and Eve aren't fictional characters.

Why would the telestial kingdom be permanent? If it's God's work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man why would God have a kingdom of stagnation that doesn't work towards his goal? Every law, ordinance and covenant God has given man is for the sole purpose of advancing man into the very type of being God himself is. Why? Because that's God's work and glory. Ultimately, man cannot serve two masters, for he will hate the one and love the other. Everyone will either gravitate towards godliness or wickedness in the end. There will be no in between, no fence sitters.

The scriptures state David fell from his exaltation. He was forgiven all of his sins except the muder of Uriah. In that case he sinned against Christ. I tend to think people just don't understand the ramifications of this action. David was highly favored of the Lord. He had many blessings afforded to him. He committed a series of sins which led up to his devious plan to hide his dark deeds from the Lord. Uriah was his good friend, he tried to trick him to cover his infidelity. Uriah didn't fall for it because he had some ethics in his life about his fellow friends on the line in the war. And so, David had him killed. He thought he had gotten away with it but Nathan caught him in this. The thing that makes this so bad was that it didn't matter who it was that David had killed, he was going to do it. Just like Judas Iscariot, life at that point became a price and the list for retaining or gaining power was all that mattered. It is their position they had with the Lord that makes it unforgivable.

And you have the story of Nephi and retrieving the brass plates. I believe he was led by God the whole time, that it was God's plan for them to try and fail two times in order that God is justified, through Nephi, in slaying Laban in the third and successful final time.

If Adam turned out to be a figurative being and not real I would burn my scriptures and walk away from the church immediately. Our doctrine is founded upon the belief and doctrine that Adam and Eve we're real literal people. If they are fake, this religion is fake! But, they are real, and thus, our religion is real and true.