Fether

Why in the world is with everyone changing their pictures and/or names???

By my estimations, you still have about 23 days

If the grave has no victory, why is it we are sad when people die? Is it a sign that faith truly is not a knowledge of things? Does it show a lack of belief/faith in the gospel? Are we actually mourning the fact that we are worse off without them? Are we mourning because we won't see them for a long while? This is a question I have been asking myself for years now, so if I have asked this before... well... too bad. I first came across this question when I ran into a man on my mission who told me he can't believe in God because his 9-year-old daughter died. Now, I am not discounting this man's feelings as a loss of faith, rather just analyzing his experience up against what we know about the Plan of Salvation (after all, who would not be distraught over the loss of a child). Christ also wept at the death of Lazarus. Was he weeping because he died, or was he weeping because he saw the sorrow of those close to the death? a semi-close family member of mine died this last week and I am only now realizing I am only sad because I see that her children may not understand it all and that they will grow up without their mother now. I wasn't so much sad at her passing itself. Are our spirits just naturally inclined to value life since that is the whole purpose of our existence here? So despite there being a deeply rooted belief of an afterlife, our souls cannot help but feel sorrow when there is a loss of life? Is it possible to experience the death of a close one and feel no sorrow because one's faith in an afterlife is so strong that they know they will see them again? If yes, should we be concerned about the strength of our faith if someone dies and we are sad?

I would never do the “get over it” approach. But rather the “if you want to be happy, stop doing these destructive things to yourself and realize many of your struggles are centered in pride.”

Oh absolutely I’m insensitive about, but this post wasn’t a “why don’t people just be happy!?” Post. Rather a “I recognize I don’t get it, what is the best way to do it?”. I have been to counseling many times in my life. Sometimes for myself and sometimes I go with my wife. In the case of my wife, it wasn’t the things the therapist ever said that helped. Rather, the things my wife changed in her life is what helped her depression. And that is all I’m saying. I feel as though if my friend would take care of herself physically, recognize the pride that is in her that is demanding attention and forcing her to compare herself to everything and everyone, and realized her higher calling as a daughter of God and that God needs her and all her strengths. I don’t think anyone has said any of that to her. These realizations are what will transform her. I am mostly wondering if the need to be gentle, soft, and affirming are stopping us from giving such tools to her (assuming that the depression is coming from inside and not trauma). I’m fine with the idea that after giving the tools and telling her these things, she doesn’t get immediately better, that it will take time. THAT makes perfect sense... but not giving her this info and helping her understand things are they really are, and rather just talk about the feelings and practice breathing exercises... doesn’t seem right

I know a person in high school that is experiencing a lot of depression and social anxiety. She is always down on herself and only speaks ill of herself. She talks about how she has no friends, she is overweight, and no one likes her. Also, perhaps unsurprisingly, she doesn't take care of herself physically, will do nearly anything for attention (even up to lying). She often inserts herself into conversations in inappropriate matters. The things she complains about are all self-induced. Her depression would be eased greatly if she started taking care of herself, stopped demanding attention, and stopped lying. She confided with my wife a few months ago that she thinks she is Lesbian (which is likely just a byproduct of either wanting attention or wanting to blame her struggles on something else). Naturally, I want to just grab her, shake her around, and demand she takes responsibility for these feelings. Realize God had a higher calling for you and she needs to realize her higher sense of duty. She needs To get over herself, get over her pride, stop demanding everyone's attention and love, and start taking care of herself physically... But being a high school girl... I don't know that that would go over well. I have seen this with many people experiencing depression and anxiety. a few times I have done what I have said above and it hasn't done much. On one such occasion, I was just met with tears and further stress. What is there to do? Is this just a byproduct of today's society, and if so, how do we fix it once it has hit someone? Is the best course of action to have a higher expectation of such people? Is the only thing to do is tell them we love them? I feel like that doesn't do anything, depression isn't cured by people loving you, it is cured by getting over it yourself. Was depression such a big deal in generations prior to millennial? I have only experienced depression and anxiety for a short period on my mission. But I quickly realized that it was all me and within 3 months I was fine. This whole thing about depression frustrates me. Mostly because, like women's rights, I am not allowed to talk about it because I haven't experienced it... or something like that. I don't believe therapy is the best fix, and I don't think a pill is the best fix either. It is a fact (or as many call it, "my personal opinion") that depression and anxiety is at least started by pride. They feel they need to be the best or that unless they say something worthwhile or impressive, they aren't worth hearing (which is just a reflection on how they see others).

Yep! That was exactly it

I heard it explained once (can’t remember where) that you can compare it to a man trying to pull a stubborn donkey up a hill. If the donkey pulls hard enough back, the man may need to step down and adjust his footing to better pull the donkey higher up the hill. This could be what is happening. Saints are pulling back so the church has to adjust their positioning to pull us higher.

It can really be anything it wants. But with the size of this forum, I doubt adding another section would do anything more than adding another unutilized forum section.

No, but what if the young man was giving a farewell talk and said “Ya, I’m attracted to women. I have been with my girlfriend for years now and sex is a natural desire. When I had my interview with my bishop, he didn’t ask about my actions concerning sex, but rather if I loved God.” He didn’t say he had sex... but it sure sounds like it. Not only would everyone be wondering what he was alluding to, but all the other young men and women in the ward that wanted to have sex may now feel some confusion about the church’s standard

just listened to it. She was VERY vague about the lifestyle she was living, and so think that would be an important if we are going to support and celebrate her and her bravery in coming up. She spoke about leaders not asking what she was doing, but asking essentially “do you believe in Christ” and how that was a better way of approaching it... but how else do leaders judge whether she is worthy of a temple recommend. If she truly is worthy, then she had be utmost respect. If she used the rhetoric used in this talk to get her bishop to give her a recommend, I would be heavily disappointed. The way she talked about being LGBTQ and the fact no one came out and clarified whether she was living a temple worthy life or not leads me to believe she isn’t. The whole thing is frustrating

One of my frustrations of this whole lgbtq acceptance in the church is that in one setting they will say “feeling homosexual feelings is not a sin. Acting in it is”. In other settings they will invite lgbtq members to talk about and share about the pride of being a member of the lgbtq community. But they will never put those two conversations in the same sitting. Maybe this situation is different (I haven’t watched it yet), but in my experience, in (unofficial) church settings where they are seemingly “celebrating” lgbtq, they never make the clarification whether we are celebrating members for their strength in choosing to live the gospel despite their nature, or whether we are celebrating the fact that this person is reveling by having gay sex in a religion that is against it. Here is where I stand: - People have homosexual feelings as well as feelings of being the wrong gender - In recent years (and still today on the cultural level), members of the LGBTQ community have been attacked and insulted widely. It’s been widely accepted that they were a free punching bag. this is wrong. - We must to change how we treat the LGBTQ community if we can spect to be “Christlike”. - homosexual acts are sinful. Gender is an eternal and essential principle - Admitting allowed to yourself and others is therapeutic. I can see how identifying as a member of the LGBTQ community can be beneficial. - One can identify to be a part of the community does not necessarily mean they are “acting” in the feelings. They just find community among other in their same situation. And though I don’t necessarily agree (nor full disagree), celebrating the nature of your feelings can help brush away the depression and other trials that come with living the gospel and being an LGBTQ member. - I do wish they would clarify what exactly we are celebrating at unofficial church events. Are we trying to make a less toxic community for the LGBTQ, or are we celebrating the sin? At least clarify that identifying as LGBTQ doesn’t mean you act on it. Failing to do this is sending the wrong message every time.

It is such a shame that the greatest good you can do is when you are young... yet most so t learn that until they have passed that age.

Nvm... just read the last little bit that was separate from the article

I honestly don’t see a problem taking a week off of the Book of Mormon if it is causing immense amounts of stress to read. The answer isn’t “read fluffy stuff”. The answer is “let’s figure out why you feel this way by reading talks specific to the issue.” It’s a close example, but not tender. I am fine talking freely about it and on with hear people talking negatively about (though attacks on her directly I won’t stand for). Overall, I too agree with the vast majority of what you say. I think my biggest frustration comes not from the claims being made (though I agree that once a line has been drawn on your expectations concerning your faith, it should not be crossed), but rather the whole situation. A “Mormon” therapist has to essentially be Bishop and therapist and that has to be difficult. but ya... my thoughts are either too complex or incomplete to express. Maybe some time around 2am I may be able to put it into words and I’ll post something.

@Vort Not sure what system you are using to play, but this may also be a joy for you

I have personally seen 6 in my life time. 1 was phenomenal, 1 was good, 3 were essentially useless, 1 was just awful. The two good ones were the first two I saw. The last 4 pretty much turned me off to the whole thing. To be honest, it was a lot like taking the same institute class from 5 different teachers. The first time you take it, there is some cool new stuff that really opens your eyes to concepts. The second time, there may be different insights. Every time after that, the same info is just being rehashed over and over. Each teacher expects you to say “aha! That makes sense!”... but instead your say “well... ya... is this the extent of what you have to teach?”. Of course the true success in a therapy session comes from the decisions of the person who is visiting the therapist, not the info shared by the therapist. It’s just not a very deep field. I imagine e the help becomes better and better the more money you spend on different therapists... but again, it isn’t like a doctor where there is a medicine for this and a surgery for that... like mentioned above, it’s relies almost entirely on life style choices.

I didn’t read the article in detail but in the past I have done a bit of study about therapists and their relationship with religious orthodoxy and how they approach it. From what I understand, the role of a therapist is to help those struggling emotionally, mentally and spiritually come to terms with their feelings, develop a healthy mindset toward and cope with issues in their life. When a person of an heavily orthodox / covenantal religion sees a therapist, I can see it being difficult to suggest things, particularly when you are a member of the same religion. For the majority of the time, a therapist is not a doctor (though they may have a doctorate degree). Most of what they are saying is just probing and trying to understand. They offer solutions to the feelings they feel. From what I have experienced, they will offer a solution or task to do, if I didn’t feel comfortable doing it, they never pushed it further, but moved in to other solutions and approaches. In the initial example, I would say it is well within the therapists means to suggest not reading scriptures. If someone came to me, a person who is not a therapist, and says reading scriptures gave them a large amount of anxiety, I may suggest taking a Hiatus from reading scriptures. Maybe I would suggest specific talks to read instead. Focus on reading talks from Eyring, Holland, and Suarez. And for the time being, avoid Oaks, Bednar, Renlund, packer, and McConkie. And perhaps focus on strengthening their prayer and try to understand how God true Lely sees them, the role sin plays in our life and how repentance, guilt and shame all play together. In more difficult situations, where homosexuality and transgender is played, I think it is healthy to at least admit such feelings aloud to one’s self. Then have a conversation about sharing them with family members and others. I remember my brother (now sister) experiencing intense amounts of social anxiety, depression, and feeling he was actually a she. He went to go see a therapist of the Latter-day Saint faith about the whole thing and the therapist helped him come to the conclusion that he does indeed see himself as a she. That step right there took a HUGE wait off her back. The therapist, from what I understand, never suggest to transition, leave the church, or any of the like. However, once my sister made the decision to no longer attend church and socially transition, the therapist was there as a tool for her to cope with the anxieties and stresses that came with it. When you go see a therapist, there must be a dialogue at some point about what religious steps you are uncomfortable taking. It’s not their job to make sure you continue living and orthodoxy life and obeying all the letter and spirit of the law commandments, particularly when you do t even want to be active. The role of a therapist is to help people cope with their feelings, and in some cases, keep you from killing yourself. Unless steps have been made the clarify how important your religious life is, it is not inappropriate for a therapist to say things like this.

I’ve entertained the idea that there is no “end” when comes to human kind as a whole. Signs of the times are there to remind us that there is an end. But that end isn’t the second coming, the end is whenever we leave this life. ”this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.” Alma 34:32. I believe this is primarily why people of every generation have been saying “the end is nigh!”. They are both right and wrong. They are wrong in their intention, that the end of the world and the second coming is within the next 20 years or so. They are right in that the true end, the only end that matters, is indeed close. If I stand on a street corner and shout “the end is near!” Within the next 90 years. That statement will have been fulfilled for everyone in earshot. Now, I do believe there to be an ultimate “end” when it comes to this world. However, I am not so sure that end, the one no one can seem to time correctly, is not nearly as important as the end that is much more easy to time, our own death.

I asked asked my wife and she immediately said “oh... I don’t care”

I have heard a bit of a stir about this over the last week from a couple different sources. They are complain about the lack of women speaking in General conference. I was curious to hear from a couple women from the forum. Do you wish this as well? Or is this just an anti-patriarchy /feminist type wish? Is hearing a woman talk about Christ different than hearing a man talk about Christ? I won’t tag anyone out of fear of forgetting someone and / or mis gendering a brother as being female, I’ll just hope this reaches the female part of the forum.

I have been pondering this for a while, but I wonder of cinema, and before that literature, has spoiled us to good and decent men and women. There are so many great hero with imperfections, but those imperfections are rooted in some sort of righteousness or injustice done to them. Harry Potter: ignorance of how magic works (his parental guardians were evil and kept him from it). he fell to anger (but only to bad guys) Frodo: Self doubt (faux humility). temptation to an object that was putting a curse on him (not his fault). These imperfections are extremely superficial and carefully done to not skew with the characters moral standing with the audience. If Harry Potter ended with a scene of him getting annoyed with his son and yelling at him, we would all be thinking “where is the sequel trilogy where Harry becomes the villain? Only terrible bad guys yell at their children” The rare occasion that cinema and literature does show this side of heros is when they also grab your attention long enough to show their redemption arc. That isn’t how the real world works. You read about a mistake someone made in the past and you have to actively go look for more information on Them before you find what kind of person they really were

I agree, I don’t think a focus on the bad is great. My concern is that the surface picture the church paints of our leaders is that they are near perfect. That the mistakes they make are inconsequential and painted in such a way that we sympathize with them in their mistakes. As mentioned before, the Nathan Mitchell approach to Joseph Smith seems to be a huge departure from how Joseph Smith really was. But I suppose the simple Antidote (or perhaps “vaccine”) to seeing this as problematic is encouraging study and making gospel discussion a daily and regular occurrence, and not strictly Sunday at church event. I was not raised in this type of environment, instead, I sought it in my own. That may be why I am so concerned about it When your only encounter with gospel topics is through church, then ya, your only exposure to JSjr would be the Nathan Mitchell approach. 30 years of only seeing that may be difficult if you then come across things not mentioned in Prophet of the Restoration.

Is this the entertainment I get to look forward to when I’m old?

The prior revolt in Ireland he created after losing the election didn’t help his case much