person0

Yes that is correct.

Oh, I just thought of some weirdness! My in-laws are first cousins! They are members and are sealed in the temple with First Presidency approval! It was a huge ordeal though because when they were young my mother in law's mother wrote a letter to the First Presidency specifically to prevent them from being able to get married in the temple. I'm not sure what her reasoning was but they were initially barred and had to go through priesthood channels and write their own letter and explain the situation and the incorrect things that her mother had said. On my dad's side of the family, my aunt and uncle were married and are first cousins, but they are Muslim and no one ever made a big deal about it. Is there a prize if I win?

Perhaps a weird thing about me and my family is that I read your whole post and didn't think your family was all that weird. Some good stories though!

Um, the Law of Moses is an eternally true doctrine. In fact the Law of Moses is still in effect. The reason we do not continue to abide the specific precepts of the Law is because it is fulfilled. The atonement fulfilled the Law, it did not erase it. We now live a more complete law as a result.

My companion only comes with me to visit one of our families, he isn't on board with home teaching, but likes this particular family. The rest I do alone, or with my wife. Lucky for her, one of my home teaching families is also one of her visiting teaching families.

Welcome. Hope you like enjoy yourself.

I vote Reykjavik, Iceland. There are only 277 members in the whole country, so even if he messes it all up in at there, damage control should be minimal. His controversial first action as bishop. . . repainting the building . . . orange!

@clbent04, I am late to this party, however, in my opinion you ought to have confessed to your father, possibly even before confessing to your bishop. Your father was the steward over your household when you were a teenager, it is his responsibility to protect you physically and spiritually to the best of his ability. Not going to your father/parents about it has a similar effect on your household to how the Angel Moroni would not appear to Joseph Smith and the Three Witnesses until Martin Harris left, due to Martin Harris' unworthiness. Just as the Liahona did not work when Laman and Lemuel were wicked. Regardless of whether or not your bishop went too far (I have trouble thinking he did since you were a minor), he should not have even been placed in that situation in the first place.

I am sad for this man and his family. It is always sad when anyone commits sin, especially grievous sin. However, sin and human frailty is a part of our lives. Excommunication is part of the repentance process. While I do not wish it upon anyone, the fact that this has happened is more likely to strengthen my faith than to try it. Why? Because we see that man is man regardless of if he is called to the primary or the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We see that God's chosen leaders are willing and able to call each other to repentance, and follow the true and prescribed methods for achieving it. We see that the spirit of God wrestled with this man until he willingly submitted to a disciplinary council, confessing his sins, knowing full well the likely outcome. Regardless of if he was initially caught, or confessed on his own, he has at least submitted himself to the will of God in this one aspect. A prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as such. It would be one thing if this was rampantly occurring, it would be another thing if it were being hushed. This is how the true gospel works. I wish the best to Brother Hamula and all who were or are affected by his actions, but I joy in knowing that the membership and all the world can see that the 'greatest' among us is not esteemed above the least.

Of course this is the case, however, if the Holy Spirit exists and fulfills the role we both believe He is said to fulfill, only a true religion will teach you how to apply His guidance in a meaningful way. As I mentioned earlier, this is not taught in Islam. Additionally, either a religion must make the claim that they are the one true religion, or else, by default they are claiming that there is no one true religion, or that theirs is not the true religion. How could a religion as a whole receive God's stamp of approval as the true faith without openly declaring itself to be the true religion? I would expect that if there is a true religion, that religion would know that it is true, and would claim that God himself would testify of it. Side Note: If you were to determine by any mechanism that Protestantism is true, you would then of necessity adopt the belief that there is not one true Church. Interjection: The five daily prayers are mostly wrote, however, Muslims may (but are not required or expected to) pray in addition to those prayers any time they would like and offer prayers similar to those of other faiths. Okay, back to the subject. . . Islam, Judaism, Catholicism and Mormonism are the most prominently known faith's in the world today which claim, to an extent, that theirs is the one true religion. Even among these, in my experience, only Mormonism openly claims that Heavenly Father will testify through His Holy Spirit that the religion/Church itself is true. From the beginning of your post you have discussed the concept of using the Spirit as a measurement of truth. If you believe that such a measurement may be possible, why are there not multiple faiths out there claiming that people should pray and receive from God that [X] religion is true? I would postulate that while Catholic members and leaders may be devout and sincerely believing, it is a calculated risk to not claim it. Any church that makes such a claim, must be prepared for those who will not receive or recognize their answer. For already largely populated faith's such as Islam and Catholicism, this would result in a mass exodus from the faith because people would say to themselves, "no answer → not true". If the religion is true, and if the Holy Spirit will testify of truth, said religion should be willing to make this claim. Because those faith's did not start from their early days to spread their message with this ideology, to implement it now would be detrimental. The fact that the LDS Church puts itself out there to such a high level of spiritual scrutiny is partially a testament in itself. The short answer to your question is that, being guided by the Spirit is not the same as receiving a spiritual confirmation that the religion is true. Members of other faiths may interpret that their spiritual experiences are evidence of the truthfulness of their faith, but I believe it is clear that those experiences are not defining the religion itself as true. If one is not seeking to know the answer to this specific question as it pertains to their religion/church/denomination, they will not receive or recognize an answer to a question they are not asking.

I know you haven't been around here very long yet to read me saying it all the time, but my father and his entire side of the family are in fact Muslim. You could have used any religion as an example; I find it interesting that you chose Islam, if for no other reason than that I doubt you expected someone in the forum would actually have lived through what you are describing. From my father I learned that in Islam you are permitted to openly question everything, with one exception: you may not question God or attempt to make a determination of His nature. The reason this is important to understand, is because, due to the lack of definition, one would be unable to come to the determination you postulated. Additionally supporting this, while the Quran references the Holy Spirit, it does not directly define it, nor do Muslims view the Spirit as a testator, as Christians do. Some Muslims view the Spirit as simply the power of God, others believe it is an alternate title for the Angel Gabriel. Muslims may have experiences with the Holy Spirit, those experiences may possibly fortify their faith, but they will remain unable to define or truly understand those experiences in a meaningful way. Conversion away from Islam is rare more because of the nature of the belief system than because of any spiritual or even logical conclusion. Also, as I stated in previous posts, there is no other faith that I know of where you can ask specifically if the religion/church/denomination itself is true as a whole and expect to receive a confirmation that it is. Since other faiths do not teach this, members of other faiths will not experience this. While I can't speak for others, it is this experience in particular that leads me to not need to seek out truth that other faiths may have for the purpose of evaluating if that particular faith is true.

I really like that story about Brigham Young. In all fairness to Elder Robbins, he also discussed the legitimate needs, both medical and otherwise to come home. Although he didn't say for sure, the missionaries in his stories sounded as if they were simply very homesick. He even told another story of an Elder who went to his mission president and said he wanted to go home, the mission president said, "No you don't. You just need a cheeseburger and some watermelon." He took the missionary out to eat, and the missionary felt better and decided to stay. Yet another story was of a missionary who wanted to go home and his mission president, his mother, father, girlfriend, siblings, all tried to no avail to convince him to stay. Then finally the Elder's grandmother called and said, "Out of 9 generations in this family we've never had a missionary return home early and we're not going to start now." She then promptly hung up the phone, the missionary stayed and completed his mission. As far as I know, in the cases Elder Robbins presented there were no lack of faith issues, or medical issues applicable, just regular 'trunkiness'. Also, sorry those other two stories weren't in the notes, I didn't catch every detail as I was initially typing it up.

I know I've seen that pose somewhere before. . . hmm. . . oh yeah: I'm sorry Vort, I think Vader's expressions come across much more clearly.

I was just about to reference his BYU speech on that. And to my delight someone had already pointed it out!

Good. They were examples of teaching with firmness, but not with anger.

Unfortunately, my handwriting is pretty terrible with nearly any instrument. It would take some serious practice to be able to use a fountain pen well. This was actually the first time that I took all my notes digitally on my phone. I was surprised at how many notes I ended up with, and especially surprised that I was able to keep up throughout the lesson. I suppose I've developed my thumbs well enough. Not sure if that's good or bad though.

Elder Lynn G. Robbins came to my ward today and taught us for nearly the full two hours following sacrament meeting. Here are the notes I took from what he taught. Feel free to ask for clarification if/where needed. I know I didn't miss a single core principle from what he taught. Be like Jesus Christ. Be leads to do, do leads to be. Be is the weightier of the two verbs. You can't count be, you can only count do. Church statistics measure Do, even though Be is the weightier in importance Do is the evidence of be. In the world we have to do lists but not to be lists, because be can't be counted. We all ought to have a to be list. Make a to be list and place items on our to do list that match. Savior is called Rabbi over 90 times in the New testament. Effective teaching is the essence of all callings, Bishop, primary, stake president, etc. No success can compensate for failure in the home. David o McKay. The greatest work you will ever do is in your home. Harold b Lee. The Book of Mormon begins by recognizing the value of the home. Nephi was raised of goodly parents and as a result he was taught. "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." Change the word men to parents. The scriptures show the way the Perfect Parent raises his children, us. The Perfect Parent never forces His children, he teaches them, exports them, etc, etc, but He doesn't force them, they maintain their agency. The Holy Ghost will bother our children more than we will. We need to trust it. By trying to force our children to be good, we plant the seeds of rebellion. Story: Kid doesn't want to go to church for x reason, father says to give his excuse to God since it's God's church, kid ponders and gets ready without further prompting. Doctrine answers why. Principles answer what. Rules are rare, because a slothful servant has to be compelled in all things. The world is opposite. Tax code is between 4 and 5000 pages and is always growing now possibly up to 100,000 pages. How many pages has the Lord given for tithing? Less than 1, it is the true principle, then we govern ourselves. If a person does not understand the principle, they need to be taught the doctrine. When a person understands why, they begin to change themselves. If you ask the prophet if you can drink Coke he will not write you back. We make these decisions on our own. It is better to teach a man to fish than to give a fish. Teach your children to make wise decisions. Teach them to recognize the holy ghost. We must teach our children to be spiritually self reliant. Even let them fail every once in a while. Story: There is no rule on TV watching on Sunday, but when Elder Robbins 10 year old daughter asks to watch Jaws he let her make the decision. She didn't want to make the decision because she wanted to not have the guilt. Eventually she decided to watch it. She later felt bad about the decision and learned to distinguish right from wrong. If he could go back he would have taught her the doctrine right at the crossroads of the decision. Alma 31:5 - And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God. Preaching changes from inside out, sword changes from outside in. Spanking is the sword, discipline is from disciple, we need to teach. Anger is a decision. People don't make you mad, you don't 'lose' your temper. If we believe someone made us mad, we are being acted upon rather than acting. We can choose not to get angry. Story: Before his son became more rebellious as his father became angry, endless cycle. He apologized to his (wayward and rebellious) son and promised to never get angry ever again (Elder Robbins kept his promise). His son eventually repented and kept commandments and served a full mission and is still faithful and active today. "As often as my people do repent, I will forgive them." Consider as: 'as often as my people sincerely partake of the sacrament, I will forgive them. Can priest bless sacrament if wearing an earing? If there church made rules for everything there would be thousands and thousands of pages.' Jews had so many rules for the Sabbath day. Savior heals people on Sabbath. Doctrine: can you do good on the Sabbath? Too many rules destroy spiritual capacity to develop. May a Priest bless the sacrament wearing an earring, sandals, and not a white shirt? Yes. Change question from can he to should he? Teach the young man the doctrine to help him change on his own. We will prove them now herewith to see if they will be obedient. . . Sometimes God's commands are difficult even for the most valiant. Sometimes obedience is the most important why. 1 cup of coffee will not keep you out of heaven, but disobedience will. You can make your kids bed better than they can, but you love them and are patient as they learn. We can teach negative consequences of poor decisions with firmness, not requiring anger. Story: Missionaries parents told him he would have to get job to pay his own way home if wanted to go home early. . . decided to stay. Story: Mother told son if he is mature enough to make the decision to come home early from mission, he is mature enough to live on his own without parental assistance. . . decided to stay. Once you choose the road, you have already chosen the destination. As a result you will become your own judge, because you know the choice you made. Sometimes it's painful. Agency is so important God allowed 1/3 of the host of heaven to rebel and lose their first estate. J.S. taught about how the sealing power is powerful and has a way to bring back wayward children in this life or the next. We can discipline but we never withdraw love, we should never make our children fearful of us. HF is the one perfect parent, we will have more success as we follow his methods.

Have you ever (regardless of the context) had an experience where you recognized the Holy Ghost? If you have, then do what is necessary to invite the Holy Spirit, then after you know His influence is present, ask God if the Church is true. If the Spirit stays, then you have your answer. If it leaves (it won't), then you also have your answer. During my mission, I was directly prompted by the Spirit to use this method. This is the only method I have successfully followed to be able to say I have received and answer while praying that the Book of Mormon is true, and that the Church, prophets, etc, are also true. That experience has since changed my life, understanding, and ability to teach the gospel and how to recognize and receive answers from the Spirit.

No one tempted Lucifer. There is no third party evil deity. Lucifer made his own choice. If Lucifer chose the path of evil and rejected God of his own volition, there is nothing to suggest that we can't also do the same, regardless of Satan't existence. We had agency in the pre-mortal realm and we have agency now. Evil is anything that is contrary to God's perfection, it exists as an abstract concept on it's own, regardless of whether or not there is a being that personifies or acts as its purveyor.

In theory I can see how what your saying would seem logical, however, at best, it is still immeasurable to man. This could really only possibly be determined as a collective, and as a result only God Himself could take such measurements. Not every person needs the guidance and influence of the Holy Spirit to the same degree. Even Mormon A and Mormon B will have different responsibilities in this life; if they are both perfectly righteous, Mormon B might have more experiences with the Spirit because God's plan for him requires it. Perhaps Mormon A will maintain a level 2/10 experience constantly and Protestant X will have a 3/10 experience every time he reads the Bible; there is no way to actually survey or observe such data and come up with an actual answer. Even if you yourself experienced it, there is no guarantee you would actually interpret your experience accurately, especially because you might equate the frequent 0 → 3 as greater than the continuous 2. Additionally, a person with medical depression, anxiety, mental/emotional handicap, etc, etc, could certainly live their whole life and not recognize the majority of the experiences they have with the Spirit of God. That's kind of what the famous Footprints poem refers to as well; the person didn't even realize that God was there the whole time. These verses are one method Christ pointed to that I believe somewhat alludes to your question. In context this refers to prophets, so although I would also apply it to the body of the Church and it's membership as a whole, it works even when you apply it directly to Joseph Smith. This would lead you to read the Book of Mormon and follow what I outlined in my previous post. Based on some of your other posts, it appears you have already been able to determine that ultimately, what you are seeking in this question is immeasurable. Therefore, I suggest focusing on finding the answer to the most crucial questions. . . Is the Book of Mormon true? And, is the Church itself true? But seeking those answers directly from God through prayer, rather than some alternative procedure that might lead you to the same result.

@clbent04, What Grunt said in his post is accurate. If we can agree that the Holy Spirit will only testify of the truth as is clear even from only using the Bible, then we can determine if the LDS Church is true by one simple measure. That is first seeking and receiving a witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, and then, upon receiving that witness, applying the following: Once you have the witness that the Book of Mormon is true, you can also ask to receive a confirmation that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s kingdom once again established on the earth". Once you have that confirmation, then it is no longer needed to ponder on your initial question. If the Spirit will remain present as you testify and claim in your mind and heart that the LDS Church is true as it claims to be, then you have your answer. I would actually disagree with this statement on a technical note. I personally have never known the Church to ever make the claim that we have the greatest prominence of the Holy Spirit. The claim made by the Church is that the Holy Spirit will testify that it is the Lord's true Church. While those claims seemingly go hand in hand, they are in fact independent. Anyone can come to know the Church is true through the prescribed methods, yet that same person may hear a talk on Sunday that is not immediately pertinent to their gospel path, and as a result not have a great burning witness of the Holy Ghost. This could continue for unknowable lengths of time, depending on the topics studied in classes, in private, etc. That same person could go to another church and hear a preacher preach a doctrinally accurate sermon on any true principle, such as faith, repentance, tithing, etc, etc, etc, and receive a powerful witness from the Holy Ghost because the things that were taught are both true and applicable to that persons spiritual needs at that time. Based on your initial inquiry, you would be tempted to presuppose that the other Church held a greater measure of the Holy Spirit, because you felt the spirit during the sermon at that church. However, your method will have led you to an inaccurate conclusion, because the spirit testified of the words of the sermon, not the truthfulness of the Church itself as a whole. This is, perhaps, why we do not make the claim in the way you have suggested. It is way too easy for someone to come to an incorrect conclusion based on such a claim. Therefore, our claim is much more direct in saying not that we have the greatest prominence of spiritual influence, but that the Holy Spirit will testify of the truthfulness of this Church.

I pay my tithing once each month. However, you should pay in whatever way is easiest for you to keep track of and best enables you to keep the law of tithing.

Yes, of course, but it still gave me an excuse to elaborate! I couldn't help but take advantage of the opportunity!

I don't think @Vort is attempting to convince anyone of anything. He is merely pointing out that we all have diverse hobbies, many of which could be considered frivolous wastes of time. Video games, television, board and card games, sports, working out, building model cars etc, etc, etc. There are so many ways we can spend our time and as a result so many ways we can waste our time. I think Vort is merely encouraging the idea of introspective analysis of how we spend our free time. There is always an opportunity cost to every decision we make. If I spend an hour playing video games, I did not spend that hour playing tug-o-war with my children, or learning how to tie knots, or reading the scriptures. I could be wrong, but I would say we could all find areas of frivolity to reduce. The real issue is how many of us are willing to take that introspective look far enough to actually make changes? In this thread I have advocated in support of playing video games, and that it is not inherently wrong. That doesn't mean it is not a waste of time. There are situations in which nearly anything could be a waste of time, and others where many things might not be. A family game is an effective and valuable bonding experience. Relaxing and watching wholesome television entertainment can provide rest and enjoyment that is beneficial. Spending ten hours each day studying scriptures or doing family history work can be harmful. Our responsibility is to find the appropriate balance to the various aspects of our lives: work, fun, family, church, etc. I would say it is very unlikely that most of us don't have at least one or two areas where we could adjust our devoted quantity of time to a better cause. Regardless, while it may not have any impact on our salvation, it does have an impact on us, because, "whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection."

If the person receiving the blessing does not have the faith to believe that it will proceed from the inspiration of the Lord, He may withhold said inspiration. I have not personally had this experience but could certainly imagine it happening. It is the person receiving a blessing just as much as it is the priesthood holder giving one. I would presume it has nothing to do with being a member or not, more to do with casting pearls before swine. Additionally, the Lord may not need to provide specific flowing inspiration at times when our own thoughts and knowledge already grant the correct revelation and answers the person needs. In this case He might provide a stupor of thought or an impression to not speak ideas that are false. I feel you can take confidence in what you say until such occurs, so long as you are constantly paying attention to the influence of the Spirit throughout the entire blessing. Personally, I have started blessings with long pauses as I awaited specific inspiration. If I don't get any immediate promptings for a while, I start by proclaiming truths such as the individuals identity as a child of God, and declare only accurate gospel truth's until inspiration begins to flow. It has always come, I have never experienced a 100% inspiration blank during a blessing; if I were to experience one, I believe I would simply close the blessing.