john4truth
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Posts posted by john4truth
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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:
Well, the logic seems sound, but I'm not comfortable with the conclusion.
Basically
Growth is good
We grow by making right choices
No ability to choose means no opportunities for growth
Many opportunities to choose means many opportunities to grow
Therefore fewer opportunities for choice is bad and many opportunities for choice is good
Fewer liquor stores means fewer opportunities to make choices about whether or not to buy liquor
Restricting choice is a bad thing
Therefor restricting the sale of liquor is a bad thing.
I guess the above is the theoretical model and seems to be broadly consistent with the ideas and ideals on which aspects of the Plan of Salvation are based, ie, growth through the righteous exercise of agency. . I guess the problems come with the real world application of the model and the many people who choose unwisely.
And yes it is a dangerous argument because it seems to look sound, but if applied without restraint and without proper consideration of the real world consequences, it would lead to unrestricted choice about anything, with very unfortunate outcomes.
The more legal liquor stores the less driving and less death
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5 hours ago, Lost Boy said:
As a member of the church can you sell alcohol for a living?
Own a liquor store?
Own a supermarket that sells alcohol?
Own a hotel that has alcohol available?
Own a restaurant that sells alcohol?
Be a waiter or waitress that serves alcohol?
How about owning a starbucks??
Where do you draw the line?
Of course the follow up question would be related to weed...
Not unless you are big. My question is will the church take tithing on liquor sales since they don't on gambling. Yes weed is different it does not kill people like alcohol. Alcohol kills more people than all drugs combined. Marrijuana users do not fight they turn the other cheek
Alcohol is the gateway drug it leads less dangerous but illegal drugs
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4 hours ago, Lost Boy said:
So essentially what you are saying is that if you own a liquor shop, you are in a sense similar to God.... Hmmm that might be a tad blasphemous...😶
I know they are elite but the Marriott sells liquor and porn
5 hours ago, Fether said:I was literally drive past a Budweiser plant today that had a “now hiring sign” and asked myself that but.
I would work for a restaurant that sells and serves alcohol, but I wouldn’t own a liquor store or any other store that goes against the standards of the church.
I think it is black or white on this one but give it some time maybe it will change too
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On 5/18/2018 at 8:18 PM, MormonGator said:
Great points @lostinwater
I feel the problems are the elimination of the family. Kid's do what they want when they want. Almost half the kids don't have a father in the picture and many that do never see the dad because he has to work so much. The get out of debt idiots say he should work 3 jobs if needed. The effort needs to be keep people out of debt. Having a Father in the home is essential. It is better to lose your things than lose a child. Children not knowing or getting advise from Dad is what matters. If you can't pay your bills don't sacrifice your children bankruptcy is even better than working 3 jobs.
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My daughter is peace officer but they need our help
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1 hour ago, Lost Boy said:
However, I know a lot of gun owners that talk up how they would take out a perp as if a perp is not human. They are scum, but still human. So I don't think a lot of people have truly thought it through. I would dare bet that many don't realize what they have done until after the deed. I have heard of people needing a lot of counseling afterwards. That is why I don't talk up self defense. I have a german shepherd to keep the peeps out of the house and to go on walks with the girls. I doubt she would really do anything, but her bark is intimidating enough.
Good luck
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5 minutes ago, john4truth said:
Yes Teddy Kennedy was anti gun but always had one in his pocket. We have no honest place to learn the truth. The Media has proven they cannot be trusted. Just today I read if a Federal Judge who took payoffs for years to fix trials... who do you trust. I had a local law enforcement officer Tell me he doesn't eat with state troopers because they brag among themselves about stopping our teenage daughters primarily hoping to commit statutory rape.. I only trust God and believe the end is near for we live in total corruption
This is an old anti gun argument. Like claiming pot is the gateway drug when alcohol is more dangerous and always the first drug used. Old arguing with only the end of days being a solution.
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5 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:
So, done my chores. Here's a few comments on the Second Amendment, for us all to tussle over.
So, it seems to me there are three concepts going on here, arranged in a hierarchy of goodness.
The highest good is the security of the free State.
The next highest good is a well regulated militia, which is justified by its necessity to the security of a free State.
The final (or lowest) good is the right of the people to keep and bear arms, so far as that contributes to a well regulated militia, and so far as that militia contributes to the security of a free state.
To construe the Second Amendment in this way has consequences:
1) If a well regulated militia is not necessary to the security of a free state, that militia can be dispensed with. And so far as internal threats go, I cannot see the invasion of Kentucky by New Hampshire in the US any more than I can see the invasion of Kent by Hampshire in the UK. And external threats are far more effectively dealt with at the national level.
2) The right of the people to keep and bear arms is relevant only in the context of a well regulated militia. If you don't or can't or won't serve in the militia, the wording of the Second Amendment is such that one can derive the conclusion that you don't get to keep and bear arms.
3) The right of the people to keep and bear arms is relevant only in the context of a well regulated militia. If there is no militia, or if that militia is no longer relevant the security of a free state, then that right evaporates.
So, this is philosophical analysis of the wording of the Second Amendment, not a legal one. Doubtless lawyers could wrangle over this for ever, and earn themselves fat fees for doing so. The issue is, so far as this thread goes, what do you make of it?
Best wishes, 2RM.
Yes Teddy Kennedy was anti gun but always had one in his pocket. We have no honest place to learn the truth. The Media has proven they cannot be trusted. Just today I read if a Federal Judge who took payoffs for years to fix trials... who do you trust. I had a local law enforcement officer Tell me he doesn't eat with state troopers because they brag among themselves about stopping our teenage daughters primarily hoping to commit statutory rape.. I only trust God and believe the end is near for we live in total corruption
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55 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:
Do you have evidence for this, or is it an unsupported assertion?
Best wishes, 2RM
Look and you shall find
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1 minute ago, john4truth said:
Baloney even Wikipedia is extremist for the crooked
The Constitution has been declared inspired, live it and leave it alone
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34 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:
It does strike me that the discrepancy in estimates of DGU is so wide (55,000 to 4,700,000) that really they are saying 'ummm, actually, we don't really know!'
But it was an interesting article, nonetheless.
Best wishes, 2RM.
Baloney even Wikipedia is extremist for the crooked
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5 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:
No Christian can contemplate school mass murders without their thoughts and prayers reaching out to those wounded, bereaved and emotionally shaken by this latest atrocity.
But it seems that Americans love their guns rather more than they love other people's children, given this kind of event has happened many times before, and doubtless will happen many times again, and the arms industry lobby has always triumphed politically over the loss of innocent lives in the past, and looks set to continue to do so.
What is the position on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on sensible weapon reforms, such as extensive criminal and mental health background checks, the limitation on types of firearms civilians may legally own, etc?
Best wishes, 2RM.
There's no background checks on murderers
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34 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:
I respect that; and appreciate that you aren’t out to curb the liberties of those who believe differently.
I’m not sure whether I’d be able to do it either. It’s mostly been a nonissue for me right now because I have very young children; and I know I’m not conscientious enough to never leave a gun out where my kids might get it (they’re quite resourceful little imps). Lately I’ve been thinking about it, though, just because a neighbor to my workweek-apartment happens to be a hotheaded wife-beating multi-felon and I’ve kind of been centrally involved in the court proceedings that got his kids taken away . . . I am afraid hoping to get rid of violence dream world look in our prisons should be safe with no weapons
I suppose one issue is that you never really know whether an intruder is an assaulter or a mere burglar until he’s on his way out. Seems to me that the most likely rule of thumb would be—if he’s on his way in, shoot. If he’s on his way out—if he hasn’t assaulted anyone, let him go.
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Just now, john4truth said:
Look it up It was recently in the news. Most only hear or believe what they like. Look it up London has a burglary rate of over over an average 100%. I find it ironic that members trust CNN more than fellow members. Every one wants to go against illegal drug abuse. Alcohol takes more lives than all drugs combined. Vicodin is taken at 30 times the indicated dosage or it would never be a problem. We just a bunch of puppets. Politicians only want to appear to be helping the problems.Big Pharm just wants to force us to switch to something more expensive.
I am quoting facts but the other side makes up numbers with no proof and no one asked them to back it up. I don't have a way to document the truth. It is more dangerous in DC than Iraq. I understand the truth is hard to find in a country where many of the antis are given the microphone. I am a constitutionalist.
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15 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:
Do you have evidence for this, or is it an unsupported assertion?
Best wishes, 2RM
Look it up It was recently in the news. Most only hear or believe what they like. Look it up London has a burglary rate of over over an average 100%. I find it ironic that members trust CNN more than fellow members. Every one wants to go against illegal drug abuse. Alcohol takes more lives than all drugs combined. Vicodin is taken at 30 times the indicated dosage or it would never be a problem. We just a bunch of puppets. Politicians only want to appear to be helping the problems.Big Pharm just wants to force us to switch to something more expensive.
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On 5/2/2018 at 8:48 AM, Lost Boy said:
I am sure I am going to get push back on this, but some talks are absolutely boring. And there is very little reason they have to be.
How often do we get the... "The second councilor stopped me in the hall and gave me the topic of blah blah blah. I feel so inadequate to speak on this... blah blah blah" You would never hear this in general conference.
To me good talks have similar elements. They typically start with a story... particularly a personal story... people like hearing personal stories. Of course it needs to be pertinent to the topic at hand. bring in GA references, scripture references, personal testimony, etc. It doesn't have to follow this exact format of course, but the basic elements are there. And really personal experiences related to the topic really bring the spirit into the message.
But week after week, we have speakers struggling to figure out how to give a talk and a congregation that is hoping to feel the spirit. Things could be a lot better.
If you are given a calling to speak in Sacrament, in the hallway the bishopric needs training. President Perry said we should have sermons. Jesus did not give a a talk on the Mount. He said if they don't have time to do it right they must do it themselves.
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3 hours ago, Lost Boy said:
I looked at the article and it lists 0.92/100k for the UK and 4.8/100K for the US. The US has 5 x more homicides, but way way way more than 5x the number of guns. And then there is Switzerland. their rate is 0.69/100k. That is lower than the UK, but their gun ownership rate is quite high. What gives? They can kill a lot more people, but they don't... Guess maybe it really isn't a gun issue... at least not only a gun issue.
Stats are misleading... the crimes happen in the United States are in cities in the United States that out law guns. Like Chicago and Washington DC.
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4 hours ago, lostinwater said:
Will let others argue as to whether or not it's official - not really vested in that myself.
But that school shooting is a sad thing indeed.
I hope the Church don't go there. For every violent act caused by guns 300 violent crimes are prevented by legal gun owners if you are against guns you must understand you support a position that drastically increases crime including murder, robbery, and rape. This would like a leader endorsement of a politician and would be disasterous.
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1 minute ago, BJ64 said:
@Blossom76I have a couple of observations. The word of wisdom says barley can be used to make mild drinks. Beer in this context is a strong drink not a mild drink.
It is my observation that most of the members I interact with abstain from tobacco, coffee, tea, and drugs but totally ignore the rest of it as though it did not exist. I try to obey the entire word of wisdom but I still need improvement. Besides the part of eating meat sparingly there is also the part about eating fruits and vegetables in the season thereof. I think the idea is it’s better to eat fresh food in season than to eat processed packaged food packed with artificial ingredients and preservatives.
Of course it’s up to the individual to decide how they are going to live it but I’m convinced that the promised blessings such as health in the navel and marrow in the bones, run and not be weary and walk and not faint, the destroying angel passing over and the hidden treasures of knowledge are going to be given in a greater degree to those who live the word of wisdom to a greater degree.
The world of wisdom was just.health advise for how many years
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On 5/11/2018 at 9:17 PM, zil said:
Dude, you're not reading. I'm not disputing Elder Ballard. Some of us are having fun with a French word which, in French, only applies to women, but in English can, alas, refer to a man or a woman. You are so obsessed with something that you aren't breathing long enough to slow down and read and understand that we're having fun with a word.
No one here is arguing with you about whether a divorced man can become a bishop.
NOTE: If you're claiming that Elder Ballard contends that the dictionary hasn't given up on us, then please provide a source (but I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, and that you're quoting the wrong thing, but intended to quote me pointing out that @Vort was having fun with a French word - and yet your response makes it clear that you didn't read what either of us wrote).
This thing didn't post correctly
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4 hours ago, john4truth said:
LOL
How many Mormons does it take to change a light bulb.............................................It's a secret
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20 hours ago, Vort said:
Not so. In the history of the restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and in fact in the history of the Lord's kingdom, there never has been and never will be a divorcée bishop. It cannot happen, because of the nature of Priesthood and women.
EDIT: @zil preempted me.
LOL
False Promptings
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
Everyone has false promptings, it is when we thing with our mind not our soul. Even General Authorities has false promptings. The write books and it is common for them to have retractions. I find strong feelings about things and it is hard not to think they are promptings. Brigham Young thought there were people on the moon. That does not make him a false prophet it makes him a man. All of us including leaders are men. Leaders once thought it was wrong for races to mix. Now that is not leader thinking. I would have really messed up things even though at times I have had the gift of prophecy has been bestowed for special reasons. One of the main things I have learned that leads me wrong is any time I think I know more than others. We are each given a little bit, in the bigger picture we all know almost nothing and most depend on the Spirit and learn to depend on others. I too have been questions about leading my siblings to put my mother in a nursing home. She had Oxygen problems and kept falling. She hit her head, broke her ribs, and when she broke her back I felt she should not leave the facility she went through rehab. It is hard but we can not know what would have happened if we had not put her in a protected environment.