Nordic saint

Two toughts: 1: being burned alive is one of the most (if not the most) painful way to die. now, doing that in fire and brimstone eternally is quite a strong picture for not being in God's precence. Only one who really despise God would wish for that 2: It's indicated that Gehenna was used as a rubbish heap at the time of jesus. If it's true, a pile of waste burning day and night would make people think twice about risking being compared to that

Usually when I hear people talk about deep doctrines they either refer to: 1: Mormon folklore and conspiracy theories (Cain is Big Foot, Hillary Clinton is the beast from The Book of Revelation) 2: Doctrines or anything religiously related that a person think is too complicated and is put off by it (Jesus is also our father (by covenant), a steel sword was discovered in Jericho) To me, deep doctrine should indicate the richness, the wisdom of the doctrines that has been revealed (don't only forgive seven times but seventy times seven... that one has so many sweet layers)

Vegetales, vegetales and.... vegetales.... Sometimes I wonder if I should've stopped myself in saying "honey, this series with vegetable Bible characters could be good for the toddlers"... now it's like drugs to them

Those essays though are not criticizing but are analysis and discussions. It's not that you take up sensitive topics but how you handle them and for what purpose

... that's what you get out of writing late at night 😝 What I meant was that people at the same time need to come out of the illusion that prophets (and us) are supposed to be perfect people who don't make mistakes (in other words, a celestial being). There has only been one person on the earth who have accomplished that 🙂

I don't agree with the obsession there has been for a while now with seeking the faults of past leaders (or the present for that matter), even if the intent is good. It takes away the focus of what really matters, the plan of salvation, when we just put our focus on man's mistakes. On the other hand there's another extreme: the obsession of making the prophets stand on pedestals like Greek gods, making them seem as perfect as possible and wipe away the dirt. It's a dangerous tendency as well. You can't argue against a perfect being so the Adam-God theory has to be true, right? If not, the so-called perfect prophet has to be a false prophet. I can go on with this, but get the point. You are supposed to take the whole package of a prophet, not just what you like or what you dislike... It ruins what a prophet really is: an ordained MAN of GOD. I have no problem with talking about a prophet's faults if it's relevant for the occasion, but I would never dare to focus on it. At the same time I won't tolerate that people I know think we're supposed to be gods on earth. Sometimes a sinner but always a saint

There are some things that I don't fully agree with concerning sources. BUT at the end of the day, we quite agree on the answer to the main question anyway, so there's not any reason for me to waste your time with that On topic: I find the apology quite interesting. It's not that often that I have heard that from someone who (sometimes quite hardly) have criticized the church, especially on a greater scale like on the media.... it's kinda refreshing and is a praiseworthy attitude

Actually, David Whitmer was an observer of the translation, so he would be both primary and secondary source: primary source because he's observing Olivers and Josephs translation process and secondary source because Joseph would need to explain what happened in the hat. The reliability of Whitmer as spectator is high whereas certain parts which only Joseph Smith would be able to know, like how the letters looked like inside the hat, is lower, but still pretty reliable because of his position history-wise and because he would have gotten the information from the primary source . This is most likely why it's used as a source why it's used as reference in "“By the Gift and Power of God”" by Neil A. Maxwell

Absolutely 🙂 here it is: “The way it was done was thus: Joseph would place the seer-stone in a deep hat, and placing his face close to it, would see, not the stone, but what appeared like an oblong piece of parchment, on which the hieroglyphics would appear, and also the translation in the English language, all appearing in bright luminous letters. Joseph would then read it to Oliver, who would write it down as spoken. Sometimes Joseph could not pronounce the words correctly, having had but little education; and if by any means a mistake was made in the copy, the luminous writing would remain until it was corrected. It sometimes took Oliver several trials to get the right letters to spell correctly some of the more difficult words, but when he had written them correctly, the characters and the interpretation would disappear, and be replaced by other characters and their interprinterpretation" (Welch: "The Miraculous Translation of the Book of Mormon" from Book of Mormon Central) Joseph Smith wasn't doing the translating work as we understand it, rather, the seer stone (or urim and thummim depending on which ones he would use) functioned as a perfect Google translate where the English words were given on a silver plate. The "problem" with using a young uneducated farmer to bring forth this book is that it's too much to ask for to translate a dead language the way that we would do it scientifically. But as shown above, the original text was still converted to the English language by the power of God (maybe it would be more correct to say that God did the actual translation, but that's just nitpicking)

But the words were given to Joseph in English. Personally, I find it probable that God talk to us according to our understanding and language as the scriptures say. If the word for the Lord happened to be quetzalcoatl for example, it probably would appear as "Jesus Christ" instead since it could confuse the modern reader (but that's just speculation) Regarding church of the devil... Church is just a word for congregation or gathering of people... I doubt that any Christian would disagree with that you either belong to God or the devil

I have for good reasons no clue of what the intention of @Anddenex's post was, but in one way I agree to it. There's no discussion in that the list is something that we all should strive to fulfill and that repentance is a wonderful thing. However, there are two problems if only fulfilling such a to-do list is required for exaltation. First of all, no one on earth follows the to-do list to perfection, therefore, everybody would suffer damnation. We all sin in one way or the other and that's a life experience. That's why we needed a Savior to begin with. We are not expected to be perfect in this life but to become perfected in Him. At the same time we have people who either have handicaps or other struggles in earth life that makes it impossible to do certain thing, but they are not blocked from exaltation either. At the end of the day we are all dependant on The Lord's grace. Secondly, what if I actually do those things but for the wrong reasons? I can desire positions for the sake of being on a pedestal, the same by doing good to others. In other words, just like a pharisee who sat on Moses' seat, but because they wanted recognision from men. If those works are to be accepted, they need to be done for the right reasons. Does that mean that we should stop to keep the sabbath day holy or stop doing FHE because we don't feel like it? Absolutely not! it's still better to do it than not doing it. At the same time, it's one of the ways to work for the real intention. At the end of the day, what I'm trying to say is that everything is not just black and white. There are many holes and "what ifs" to say that we should just do all those things and first then are we rightious. In other words, one who follow the things in the said to-do list can certainly be rightious, but one can also be quite unrightious. Maybe it's an example of why it's important to not judge one another.... we don't know a persons heart just by crossing off from a list.

I wish I could, but THAT certain scripture has yet to be revealed to anybody but the people of the North 😎

What I really like about these conversions is that it shows that even in these cases they had not gone so far that the grace of God could not reach them. In the end, The Lord loves the persecuting Pharisee, the lamanite king, the corrupt lawyer, yes, even the Nordic saint (even though we are pretty stubborn), and is eager to give them the blessing of repentance

I wouldn't do it. Whether you drink it or use it as flavouring doesn't make a big difference chemically... it's basically still the same thing, just without water (which is probably the most healthy part of coffee 😂)

I would say that the standard answers you wrote are the most effective ways. The thing is that the answer is not really what method is fastest but rather how fast you allow it to get you closer to Father. For example, anyone can read the scripture, but how many wholeheartedly feast upon the words of Christ? I think that if we do what we have been told and give our 100%, it wouldn't take long time. Look at Enosh, he had a good relationship with The Lord after a days (hard) effort. It's all about giving up the natural man. Now to the other question: Joseph Smith said it much better than I could ever do "If you will listen to the first promptings, you will get it right nine times out of ten." In other words, everything good comes from God, but sometimes we try to rationalize it or Satan try to stop you from doing good. Just ignore the devil's words, kick him in the butt, do what is right and be a hardcore disciple of Christ 🤠

We must also remember that we are given line upon line, precept upon precept. It may be that we should have been called by the official name since the beginning, but if the members are not ready to fully accept it, The Lord sometimes decides that it's better to wait untill we are willing to fully accept it. Remember that it "only" took around 1500 years before Our Father revealed through our Lord Jesus Christ that they indeed got permission to give divorce papers by Moses, but that it wasn't supposed to be like that in the beginning. They were only allowed to do it because of their ungodliness, and now the truth about marriage was going to be the standard. In other words, God has for some reason always worked that way, so let's trust in Him. He knows best after all

president Nelson standing at the conference with a mighty moustache "Brethren.... the time has finally come! 😁

I don't think that my answer covers all of it or that it's a perfect answer, but here are some things that i've been pondering about concerning this topic: 1: We are not born spiritually equal. We have different levels of spirituality, and Jesus is the greatest of us, being equal with The Father. I can see how some people might have the right spirit like Alvin. It doesn't really matter in the end when we recieve the gospel in our lives as long as we become born again by water and fire. 2: This one is connected to the other since we know that all people who come unto Christ are not the worst people in history, so why are they recieving the gospel? One thing's for sure, an important reason is because that we still need the sacred ordinances no matter who we are or how we are, or the heavenly gates are closed. Even Jesus set the example for us, and someone is supposed to do the work for themselves and their deceased (and it's not without blessings of course) 3: I think that an important part of life is to develop christ-like attributes, especially charity. I remember reading in one of the study materials that we don't want to experience a person recieving all of Fathers blessings who is not spiritually prepared. It would be a disaster. But like I said in point 1, some people (like babies) do not need as much earthly experience, propaply because they already possess the necessary parts My third point reminds me of the fourth season of The Flash (SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED IT). The way that Devoe developed to the thinker just creeped me out and made me wonder how it would be like to be omnipotent and omniscient but lacking our emotional register like empathy. Knowing all things but seeing everything with just cold analytical eyes is a reeeeeeally cocktail and is not much different from satan's plan

Originally form Denmark, but I've moved and traveled so much between the countries that I've just become.... Scandinavian (I'm trying to convince the others to make Scandinavia a united Denmark though.... some day their eyes will open) I was planning to.... but some scottish lads took my longboat last time I sailed that way

I didn't train it. it domesticated itself as it beheld my eyes of thunder 🐉

I hear it all the time... there must be a high demand on us 😂 and thanks!

Well, I've been watching this site for quite a few years, so it's was about time that I made an account so I can participate in this forum 💪 I'm a Scandinavian member and criminologist, converted 10 years ago. I have knowledge of hebrew and arabic, and the pre-babylon israelite culture is one of my favourite subjects. I look forward to talk with you guys, and hopefully be able to contribute with some things as well