Traveler

I believe the message concerning G-d to his human creations is to not come home unclean. I realize that there is repentance and forgiveness but the message is clear - no unclean thing is allowed in the presents of G-d. Repentance must be done before returning - not after. We all live and we will all die - my point is that if our life is meaningless then death will not offer anything new - this is not contrary to religion or good sense. One cannot live with meaning unless they are willing to die for something worth while. I think a principle is ignored. So I ask - what is the point of living without honor? One might say that there is still time to repent and live with honor. That is a most interesting thought that requires that a person change their reason for living if living was the trade off for honor. This begs another question – has someone in truth repented without facing a trial of the repented sin? The Traveler

My experience does not correlate with the published norm. The Traveler

I find this most interesting but I think a point would be lost. I think the real question is - if there is anything more important than staying alive? Is it more important to stay alive than to find truth, or to maintain your belief in G-d, or family, or democracy, or as this thread implies is it more important to stay alive than to keep your honor and virtue. If I am ever to stand for something – I would hope that I could stand with those that value some of the things I have mentioned; more than life itself and these I would trust honor and stand by – even unto death. I am not sure what I would do for someone that puts themself first. The Traveler

I suggest you read Doctrine and Covenants 88:36-38. The Traveler

There are many things implied about heaven. I will summarize in most general terms – going into specifics only if requested. The Celestial Kingdom. The Father and the Son are Celestial beings. All that comprise the Celestial Kingdom abide with great desire and love by the same covenants that govern G-d. Jesus said that he did nothing outside of his covenants with the Father – I believe this is the manner that all Celestial beings live. Our hearts, minds, might and strength will be one – with G-d and our Celestial neighbors all based on love of all peoples including our enemies. The Book of Abraham tells us that although we will be equal under the covenant (Law) that some will be greater than others and that G-d is greater that all.The Terrestrial Kingdom: I believe this is a great and wonderful kingdom. Those that abide the Terrestrial covenant love G-d and worship him. They are honest and hard working but have no desire to serve others as G-d serves. They are content to be watched over and cared for by G-d, his love and his grace. They are not interested in living the same covenants as G-d. Their desire is to receive grace and not necessarily interested in giving grace. They will do whatever G-d ask but they are of the mind that they want to be asked.The Telestial Kingdom: These are people that are good but they are interested in getting what they want. The will work hard but only for themselves. They are not interested in being told but when things get messed up enough they will seek help. They were involved with all manner of temptations and often became addicted to various passions, desires and various wants. They love a good time. They are grateful to be saved from the wages of sin but long for various ung-dly things from time to time.Outer Darkness: These are the people that honestly love Satan’s concept of compulsion and disagree with G-d concept of agency, love and compassion. They believe they should be saved from sin because they have an in or a personal relationship with the one in charge – or who they think should be in charge. And they believe others should be made to suffer eternally in order to keep them in line. They are all about force and making other comply. They are loving and compassionate to those that support what they want but they believe that those that disagree with them should be punished forever until they relent to their line of thinking. To them the only way anyone should be forgiven is if they get in line with the program of forcing everyone to comply with the standard. Being nice to the enemy is a sin to be punished. It is not about love, compassion and forgiveness – it is all about conforming or being tormented and punished. It is about getting even with those that screw up making sure they get what they deserve.Sometimes it appears to me as many speak their minds about things that they really prefer Satan to be their G-d. The Traveler

Let me ask another question - In which society FLDS or non-FLDS - has the highest minor sexuality at the youngest age and most underage pregnancies? Are our Texas friends protecting children or straining at a gnat and swallowing camel? When it comes to sexual abuse of children. The Traveler

There is a obvious flaw in this prof. It is a common problem of ignorance that many have with the difference between complex numbers and real numbers. As soon as you attempt to take the squar root you must realize that can only have a complete solution if the number is complex. I submit that women are complex and therefore assuming all women are evil is flawed - especially for a male that does not understand the complex and real sets. :) The Traveler

If racial problems cannot be dealt with in a controlled environment – it cannot be expected in uncontrolled environment of that same society. The Traveler

One of the reasons the children were removed from the compound ranch in Texas was because of the accusation that the children were being taught (given propaganda) to prepare them for underage marriage and sexual contact). This was considered by the Child Protective Services to be acts of child abuse. I do not want to discuss if the FLDS church is guilty of child abuse – I want to look specifically at others. What I am wondering is this: If encouragement of underage sexual contact is child abuse – why has there been no effort or action against educational and entertainment materials (example – R rated moves) and those that distribute such materials where minor children have access and the parents that allow and encourage their minor children to participate in such entertainment and education? The Traveler

Satan wanted all the glory unto himself. I believe that he wanted all to believe that under his plan of salvation that all would be saved by his grece. Satan wanted to take away the agency of man. I believe that Satan wanted all to understand that under his plan that man was not think in any terms or to any degree that anything done by man is meaingfull. The Traveler

Paying a small amount for the poor is a great amount and should be considered greater than that which is paid by the rich. I would also add that it is my belief that G-d ask us to tithe because of the great benefit it is to us - not him. Thank you Sister Drew - it was a joy reading your post. The Traveler

I am not sure I continue to like the way many of us LDS look at this question. There are many things to consider in the manner we all live and are paid. Without question those ministers that live high on the donations of such as the widow's mite are living contrary to Christian principles. But one does not have to be in positions of responsibility within a "Church" to abuse and misuse the manner in which they are paid and the manner in which they live. I have come to realize that of all that post on this forum - it is I (because of my economic status) that is the most worthy of any criticism as to how I treat my fellow men concerning things of money – how I am paid and how I live. It is also my opinion that if we look to criticize others before applying such things to ourselves that we abuse our faith in Christ. We are all unprofitable servants and therefore it is unwise to criticize others for their unprofitability. I would also point out – for those that have not observed; that this is somewhat of a different direction in my thinking since I joined the forum some time ago. The Traveler

Before one can recieve the blessings in eternity of an eternal marriage - they must seek and covenant with G-d through his pointed proxy(s) to live by covenant - including and especially the eternal covenant of marriage. Please note that marriage and the eternal covenant of marriage is not only not the same thing but is some cases a marriage apointed by man is contrary to the sacred eternal covenant of marriage and disqualifies an individual of such covenant with G-d. The Traveler

Often when we ask the question of who will or who will not be in heaven we do so focusing on a single event in a person’s life. I personally think this is the wrong approach and I also think it displays a great deal of ignorance about the kind of place heaven is. To be honest – it is my belief that most people (including many on this very forum) will not be in heaven because it is not a place of their liking. For example, the once saved always saved approach to things – to me appears to be a perfect fit of Satan and his Kingdom. His plan is to take care of everybody. His plan was to save everybody by grace. So if you want to be saved regardless – then Satan and hell is the perfect place for you. Heaven is a place for people that are free. In other words heaven is for those that are responsible and take responsibility. Yes, I am well aware that there are tons of scriptures but I personally believe many times people read too much of what they want into scripture. G-d is not about mindless robots without personalities and abilities – G-d is about righteousness, covenants and responsibility. It is Satan that wants to fix “it” for everybody. So here is the deal. I believe that regardless of what is in a person’s past – if they want to be a saint, do what saints do and be responsible as a saint is responsible – they belong in heaven. I also believe that regardless of what is in a person’s past – if they do not want to be good – making fun of anyone that is good for any reason – they do not belong in heaven. But more than anything – if anyone wants a G-d and a kingdom where they are taken care of; do not have to lift a finger for their own salvation (or anyone else’s) then Satan and Hell is their perfect match. And yes – it is a choice – and from the posting – many have made their choice. The Traveler

Just thought I would throughout the possibility of the Japanese connection to Hagoth. This is for those that have some understanding of Japanese history. The Traveler

I would like to ask some questions: When is a government justified in using force? Is the use of force - in essence socialistic? Who decides what is best for the society and how that society is governed? What is the meaning of the word govern and what is a government? Who in any government is free? Who should be free? The Traveler

Just wondering - how are your sure that is no body associated with Lucifer? The Traveler

The only way to be sure that what you are doing is not influenced in some way by Satan is to do all things according to your covenants with G-d. Jesus is an example of one who did all things according to covenants and as commanded. Jesus also made reference to thoses that have eyes but cannot see and ears and cannot hear. The loss of sight and hearing is a direct reference to broken covenants that was well understood in ancient times. Few understand the role of covenants and such ignorance in demosntrated in various discussions on such topics of works and grace. But the point I intended to make is that anything a person does that they do not intend to be part of a covenant - is not part of covenant and is as according to the powers and priesthoods of Satan. Let us all know and keep our covenants. The Traveler

Good point Snow - I know a university that claimed to have initiated cold fusion. For those that think just because a university has claimed to have done something that it must have merit – you may send me what ever money you have and I will invest it in the cold fusion – and you can join the thousands of others that were beguiled by the titles of a prestigious university. I will guarantee that within a week I will return 1,000 times what other investors in cold fusion were awarded as a return because of a prestigious university. But keep in mind that 1,000 times Zero is still Zero. Anyone see the headlines that carbon dating is proven invalid? There ought to at least be a mag at the suppermarket check out. We all know that universities never "doctor" or "cook" their data. The Traveler

It would seem that with this question there is some misunderstanding. The difference between our Intelligence and our spirits is not at all what is projected in some post. That which is spirit is eternal by nature and is not created or made. (See D&C 93) - Note that Saten takes away intellignece through disobedience (verse 29 and verse 39). This is the means by which spirit become "subject to" and freedom of man is lost. The Traveler

Some things and some thoughts. First off: Satan and the various members of the G-dhead have almost nothing in common. It is my personal belief that attaching anger to G-d is a misinterpretation of scripture. I would point out that any need to suffer ill effects because of sins was paid for by Jesus. Jesus has gone through a lot of suffering himself to overcome the damage done by sin. It is important to note that not only did he suffer that you and I do not have to suffer for the ill effects of our sins but that we might also not be destroyed by the sins of others. I believe if someone is angry because of sin it is because they do not really believe that Jesus overcame sin – so their anger is really because they must think in some way Jesus did not really keep his promise. In other words any anger towards someone because of sin is an outward manifestation on one’s rejection of Jesus Christ’s infinite redemption of sin. Because of the atonement there is no need to condemn, damn, or be angry because of any sin. Next: I would point out that Hell was not created in order to enforce revenge on sinners. It was created by a loving and compassionate G-d for those that would not live with him – and living with him requires covenants. The only souls in hell are those that want to be there. Hell is exactly what heaven would become if those that do not covenant with G-d to become free like G-d, were accommodated in order to exist there. No one would be free. Next: Satan does not want to be in heaven – he wants everyone in hell; including G-d. He wants the power and control over ever thing. Those that do not want to live free in eternity – want everything taken care of so they do not have to worry – will find hell and Satan very much to their liking. It was Satan’s plan all along to turn heaven into hell. Those that want a free ride in heaven and a eternal guarantee to be saved regardless of what they do will find Satan’s hell much more to their liking than G-d’s heaven – where you cannot be forgiven unless you forgive – if you want to be forgiven based on your personal relationship with your G-d and/or without having to forgive – then Satan is your ideal G-d and hell is your ideal heaven. Next: Those that followed Satan out of heaven were not deceived. They understood the plan of salvation and did not like it. They liked Satan’s plan. The reason we think of them as demons is because they got angry when they did not get control of heaven and they are trying to punish the rest of us for that. I do not like the notion and doctrine that G-d treats those that do not go along with his plan in the same manner that Satan and his hosts treat those that do not go along with their plan. There is a very big difference. G-d is not angry or trying to get even or punish anyone for not playing his game. Please try to get past this idea and concept and you will understand G-d a lot better. Last: 1/3 of heaven did not follow Lucifer. The ancients did not understand fractions in the same manner as we do. The 1/3 part of heaven is an indication that heaven was divided by the rebellion of Lucifer into 3 parts. It is not required that the 3 parts be equal. There may have been 10 times as many in Lucifer’s part or only half as many as any other part. The point is that there were 3 parts and the part the followed Lucifer was sent away from heaven so that heaven would not be come hell. Dividing G-d’s children into 3 parts is a recurring theme in scripture. Thank for listening and enjoy your choices. The Traveler

So you believe that prior to the "creation" that G-d was a "nothing" G-d meaning a G-d of nothing? The Traveler

Sometimes the manner in which a question is asked - the answer can be affected. The greater one's abilities the greater one can serve good or evil. The Traveler

I I am touched by the understanding of "word". Most often we think of words as that which is spoken. The Gospel of John tells us more concerning "The Word". The scriptures often use symbols when talking about things like the "mouth of G-d". I think we do ourselves a disservice by narrowing our understanding of what the scriptures intend when we think in terms of what is spoken and written. I believe that those sent by G-d they are inspired beyond words – they are inspired by deeds and behaviors to be examples of G-d as well. If their behavior is not inspired – they words are empty. I do not believe it is enough to speak of the things of G-d – if one is not a proxy and example of G-d they are a false prophet and false teacher and should not claim that G-d has called or sent them. By the same token we should not seek guidance from those whose deeds are not a consistent example of what they teach – which leaves me without any political mentors or leaders to follow from any current campaigns. The Traveler

#1: Beginning. It is my understanding that a variant translation of this is “When G-d first established his covenant with man”. This would lead us to understand that Genesis is not about the beginning of time. The implication that this is the point of a beginning of all things is problematic. It would mean that there is nothing eternal and that eternal is a false concept – because there was a beginning before which there was nothing. #2: G-d. There is much more to this than most Christians (especially traditional Trinitarian Christians) seem to be willing to deal with. For example; most make transitive of the logic that G-d is the creator or in other words that the creator is G-d which defined G-d in terms of the creation. Genesis deconstructs this false and heretical notion. The point made in Genesis is that G-d was in existence and had defined who he was as G-d prior to the creation. This is a most important notion and cannot and should not be misunderstood – Genesis is crystal clear concerning this notion. It cannot be argued that G-d was G-d prior to creation if nothing existed for G-d to be G-d over or to. What Christians worship as G-d is not and was not ever a G-d of nothing but if there was nothing prior to the; what we understand as “The Beginning” in Genesis, then G-d was a “nothing” G-d and is not the same G-d yesterday, today and forever but is a G-d that changes the very heart and core of what we understand of G-d. #3: Created. Again Genesis is very problematic with science of our modern era as some try to interpret Genesis. From science we have learned that matter is not the simple physical that many in traditional Trinitarian Christianity have attempted to define. Einstein gave us understanding and knowledge that matter and energy are different states of the same thing {E=m(C*C)}. With an infinite source of power available to G-d – he could transform energy he has in his infinite reserve into the matter of the universe – which is, BTW, a very good explanation of beyond the horizon of the Big Bang theory. #4: Heaven. This cannot be an explanation of the Kingdom over which G-d resides for that definition of things cannot be created because for that there can be no beginning. If there was then a beginning that G-d himself and his existence would have beginning. The heaven referred to in the Genesis creation epoch is what we know of as the universe – comprised of many stars, galaxies and a great variety of things we have yet to become aware of. #5: Earth. This is also a most problematic notion based on modern science. To demonstrate the problem let we ask one simple question – Are dinosaurs a creature of Earth? The problem in science is that dinosaurs were too big and heavy to have existed with current earth gravity. Structural analysis of the very large dinosaurs indicates that their bone structure could not have supported their mass and mobility to allow existence in current earth gravity. I am not trying to prove any notion of creation or evolution – just state a simple fact. At what point the earth became the earth as we now know it is not addressed in Genesis. This problem or question is avoided in most religious discussions concerning the creation of the earth. Many Christians are having problems with their traditional notions and the advances of science. Someday the “earth” with be filled with knowledge but until then one of the greatest difficulties man faces in his relationship with G-d is overcoming and incredible amount of ignorance generating misguided faith brought about by poor understanding of science and scripture. I am grateful for the LDS notion that G-d has not yet revealed the wholeness of creation – we need to have faith to learn more. The Traveler