Traveler

Most all of the arguments concerning the Book of Abraham that I have seen argue about everything but the contents of the Book of Abraham itself. It is most interesting to me that the Book of Abraham was written a very ancient Egyptian literary form that was lost in time and not known at the time of Joseph Smith. Some may argue that Joseph happened on the literary form by accident. If you are one that thinks this possible then I would ask you to write something in that form. You have the example of the Book of Abraham – so have a go at it. Having read, considered and pondered the contents of the Book of Abraham I find it most interesting and without doubt a divinely inspired document. The Traveler

I am not convinced that bad things happen to good people - in fact I am not convinced that bad things happen to bad people. Shakespeare once said that nothing is as good or as bad as it seams only that thinking makes it so. If someone ends up better off at the end than they were at the beginning can we say that what happened in between was bad? Perhaps if we think bad things are happening we do not see the complete picture. I do understand that two individuals can look at the same thing and one will see ugliness and one will see beauty. Likewise two individuals can have the same experience and one will think it bad the other will see goodness and thank G-d for the experience. I have yet to knell at my bed at the end of any day and not be thankful and feel a need to express appreciation. The Traveler

The other side of your question concerns what is not doctrine. I believe it is within scope to say that anything said or printed by an "anti" LDS organization is not doctrine. The Traveler

The point that all should understand is that salvation is like a seed (I think even Jesus used this point). The seed and almost everything needed for the seed to grow is freely given to all for one does not receive more than another. But for some the seed will grow and for others the seed will not. The difference is not in the seed but in the place that the seed is given to grow. The seed by itself will not always grow. It is obvious to all that G-d’s grace is not enough. His grace is like the seed. Without care the seed will not grow and survive. What I find most interesting in religious conversations is that many think their soil is better than the soil of others and so they draw differences – always thinking to prove their soil better. But the seed will grow in any acceptable soil – but there is more because not all seed will grow wheat. The Traveler

I believe everyone will end up exactly where they want to be. My father put it another way. We are what we have spent our life becoming - nothing more and nothing less. The Traveler

For me the answer was visual. The Traveler

It is most important to note that the chiasm is not the only form of Hebrew poetry. The most complex ancient scripture of Hebrew poetry is the book of Isaiah. Interestingly the manner and structure in which Isaiah is quoted within the Book of Mormon preserves all the complexities present in the verses quoted. I am not aware of any other modern writings that even come close to preserving these ancient structures. It is also important to note that the ancients considered that to be able to write in the poetic Hebrew forms was a sign that a prophet had been sent by G-d (see how Joseph speaks to Pharaoh concerning the dreams for example). Also I would point out that the chiasm was also considered to be the structure of the plan of salvation and a key to understanding of things that were are and will be (prophesy). For example it was believed that the symbols of Eden, the fall, mortal man, covenants of salvation then exaltation as a return form a chiasm. The Traveler

I think you are correct when you compare our generation to the generation that lived with Jesus. The elements are so powerful that it is my personal belief that the NT was perserved through time for the primary intent for our day. The Traveler

Interesting but I do not think that the expressions even comes close to how the L-rd thinks nor do I think it represents how the saints (believers) deal with their L-rd. - and that is the point - Thanks The Traveler

I was struck by some of the values given voice in another thread so I thought I would ask for opinions. What among your personal values would you die for? The Traveler

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 tells us that all things that happen have a type and shadow in the past. With this in mind what are the opinions of this current generation to which we belong? To which generation in scriptural history are we the most like? The Traveler

It is interesting to me that you quote Enos. Following his words one will begin to realize that as he was brought close to G-d his heart was turned to concern for others. It is my understanding that faith in G-d is not about you getting your slavation or you having a personal relationship with G-d. In fact it appears to me that the more enlightened one becomes the less it is about them and G-d and the more it is about service and sacrifice for others. Or if you will - having personal relationships with your fellow men. Now that I have said that - we need you. We need your service. We need your help and your service. The world is starved for saints willing and able to serve with love and kindness worthy of the saints of G-d. I would recommend that you don't just come and feel good within yourself. I recommend you come and serve with the church of saints bringing the light of Christ to a world lost in the darkness of the last few days before Christ comes again. BTW - Most likely it will not be what one would call fun or easy. The Traveler

I like your quotes from Bob Hope. Often we put ourselves in situations in which we cannot succeed and then blame others for our failure. Chastity is more of a state of mind than it is an act. Jesus said to even look (or have a look to inspire such looks?) with lust is a commission of immorality in one’s heart. It is not so much the big things we do but the little things. Do we encourage our children to succeed? No one wants their children to takes risks with their lives. In fact it is considered child abuse to allow minor children to freely participate in activities that are dangerous risks to life. The question concerns the view and influence parents have that are willing to allow (or encourage) their children to take dangerous moral risks that could ruin their lives. A possible difference with moral risks is that a person can ruin many lives beyond their own. In light of this; the scriptures indicate that it would be better for a person to be drowned in the depths of the sea than to abuse or take advantage of innocence. The Traveler

I honor your virtue. As a young man serving in the military I was dragged from my bed late at night and faced a group of angry drunk men threatening my life if I did not deny “Mormonism”. I was small (about 120 lbs) and young but threatened to take the first to try my life with me to death. It was then another outcast that I hardly knew or thought that much of at the time came from nowhere and stood by me with knife in hand and said he was sure that he could take at least three or four more with him. The friend that stood by me was later killed in Vietnam having not been converted – but I am sure we will meet again in joy. And there were among the angry mob – at least two that I know of that did convert. I regret that in your trial you stood alone. The Traveler

I love and honor both the spirit and person of President Uchtdorf. I sense that the light he carries is much greater than mine. There is one concern I have. Though it is taught as doctrine that one calling in the church is not above another - I am disappointed by the brethren that talk of their humility in the responsibility of their current calling. If one calling is not above another then they should not feel to need to be more humble, called to the first presidency, than they should feel humbled to be called to assist in the nursery. Please do not consider this as criticism of the brethren for I am sure that they do not consider their calling as such and that they would serve with all their heart in what-ever calling the L-rd covenants with them. I am concerned that some in the church begin to think a general authority is greater in their eyes than a bishop, stake president or home teacher that serves the covenant of their calling with the same humility and determination. I am humbled by all that serve in the kingdom and take upon them the “Faith of their fathers” – and that includes the children of my primary class preparing for their baptism. They are as precious and important to me as those I have served in various presidencies and bishoprics. The Traveler

We do not have to wait for the Christ to return for two people standing next to one another can hear the words of a principle of a teaching of Christ and one will embrace it and the other in bewilderment wonder why anyone would try to live such a difficult principle. The Traveler

Dear Brother D: Let us be realistic. The situation you give places the life of your child beyond your choice. What trust can you possibly have that the one with the choice is honorable and honest in what they are telling you is now your choice? There is one thing that has been left out of this discussion – thus far (except perhaps Tough Grits) is a trust in G-d and the ability to hear the spirit guiding witness in the hour of desperation. Three things that will prevent the influence of the spirit and faith in G-d are: 1) Anger 2) Contention and the BIG #3 – Fear. The Traveler

All of us fall short and have done dishonor to our Father in Heaven. Those of us that have raised a family know that every son and every daughter will dishonor their heavenly and earthly parents at some point or other in their lives. It is my opinion that we should never “disown” children that have failed in their honor but we should never give the impression that anything dishonorable is okay. Most children about to reach adulthood have a concept of the value of their life. Helping them understand that honor is of greater value than life is important at such a critical time. In the words of patriots, “Is life so dear or peace so sweet to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery… give me liberty or give me death.” I do not think it is a problem that children should understand that they should “resist” evil. The problem is in how we define “is” or in this case how we define “resist”. It would appear that many are fearful to resist evil, especially if evil is willing to “raise the stakes” to a higher level than we are committed to resist. The results with such thinking based on fear, is that evil will always win. Let us consider chastity. Do we not understand that a rapist that is willing to kill a victim for any resistance is likely to kill the victim anyway because there is no value of such a life to them? Two very important lessons that we all should have learned from 9/11 is first – the more everyone is passive and does nothing in a threading situation the less likely things will turn out better for it. The second lesson we should have learned is that the sooner we resist and the more of us that resist the better off we will all be. What have you taught your child concerning abduction? To go along and corporate so they won’t get hurt? Or do you teach them the scream and shout method and to fight for their life. When was the last time you had to choose between your honor and your life? Yesterday at 3:00? I doubt it – Somewhere we have picked up the notion that honor is not so valuable. I do understand that everyone must decide their values. But just so we are clear between you and I – Those of you that value life more that honor, I would not trust. This does not mean that I do not love you or have concern for you. It does mean that for all the things I value more than life – I would never trust to be in your care - ever. Also you must understand that if you get in the way of any of the things I (or anyone else for that matter) value more than life (including someone else’s) – what will happen to yours. The Traveler

Tomk: Sometimes because of the society in which we live we tend to look for easy and quick solutions. Sometimes because we believe and have had a spiritual experience we think the L-rd has completed his purpose in us and we are spiritually complete or whole (perfect according to Matt 5:48). Jesus spoke of being whole which includes something more than having our sins forgiven or being healed. It is my opinion that to become whole one must experience what Alma described as “having been stripped of your pride.” Pride is the feeling that we are superior or better than others (even in the eyes of G-d) and therefore in a position to criticize them – It is not uncommon to experience pride even if one is a saint. Pride keeps us from liking and loving others with real charity. Sometimes when we pray for understanding and blessings from the L-rd he gives us experience through which we can come to know of things through experience of that thing. For example if we seek for strength we have experience that can (if we live through the experience with honor) give us great strength. If we desire true charity then we are blessed with experience that will stretch our current abilities in divine love and charity. Anyone can be kind to those that are kind to them – there is no honor in such kindness. A kind person is a person that is kind when no one expects it or thinks such kindness is warranted or has place. Some of us more hardened types need to experience a truly kind person that returns divine love and charity to us when we have treated them with contempt and cruelty before we can see “the light”. Some of us are never able to overcome the temptation to return contempt and cruelty to those that treat us so. As my mission president use to say, “Your best is not good enough and good enough is not your best”. It would appear to me that you have some rather “golden opportunities”; for which I wish you more than you have tried in the past. The Traveler

There seems to be a gross misunderstanding - Repentance is a return with honor and forgiveness from others has noting to do with true repentance - except for those that cannot forgive and therefore know no honor. And so I wonder - has honor lost meaning with some? I cannot understand any parent that does not encourage their children to live with honor. The Traveler

I would be most interested if you could produce any scripture that tells us that Satan is an angel. I have heard this many times but I cannot find such a scripture.The Traveler

As I travel through life I would rather travel with someone intent and focused on returning with honor. Perhaps we should ask this question another way. If you could chose - would you trust you daughter with a young man that valued himself above your daughter’s chastity or with a young man that valued the chastity of your daughter more than their own life? Why is honor so hard to come by in today’s world of politics, religion and education? Perhaps in this generation it is not worth the bother. The Traveler

My previous question was hijacked and lost so I will ask the question again. If putting children into an environment and situation that encourages them to be involved in sexual activity is a form a child abuse – what are some of the elements and efforts in our society to abuse children. Are there efforts in entertainment? In education? Some say the only reason there is so much more child abuse now as there was 50 years ago is because it is reported more now. I am not so sure. The Traveler

It is impossible to come up with the correct answers if one insist on asking the wrong questions. Many years ago I was lost in the wilderness for several days. I survived because I was willing to eat what ever I could find. The scripture about hunger and thrust for righteousness means something different to me - I know what it means to be hungry and trusty. I know what it means to be thankful. When I explain some of the things I would eat some have said that they would never eat what I did. Sometimes I feel this way about truth. Some people are too proud to believe a truth. There is no reason to search for truth that you will never accept. I am sure that truth will never be found by those that feel they must make excuses for it. Something happened 6000 years ago but I am not sure the scriptures have the complete story and if one cannot understand that G-d did not lie in creation or scripture they will live with superstition rather than truth. The Traveler

The term sons of ---- is an ancient designation of a covenant. On another note - someday from an ancient “Book of Secrets” we will learn about the “Rise of the Giants” that resulted in some of the many myths and legends of earth in antiquity. When you hear about this, sometime later – remember that “The Traveler” spoke of it at a time when such a thing could not be found. The Traveler