Traveler

There are strong connections with the spirit that is in your home and about your person and the language that one uses. I know that many people see such things a funny but I am not sure they understand the danger. I support and honor all that work towards making their home a place where the holy spirit of G-d is welcome. The Traveler

I believe that everyone will end up in the place they really really want to live eternally. I do not believe that G-d will deny heaven for someone that would rather be there than any where else. I also do not believe there is a hell that a loveing G-d would damn anyone to if they did not perfer that place over heaven. I also believe that many so called Christians will, once they see heaven will be saddened by it and desire a place more suited to their wants and desires. Many feel we should all find a "church" that suits us. I am quite sure that such reflections on G-d and such will roll over with us in eternity. One last point. Most seem to think heaven and salvation is all about them - Them being saved - Them being forgiven, Them not having to suffer, Them getting what them wants for free or other wise - in other words a ME ME ME ME ME and what I get for ME ME ME. I think such have missed the most important part of what it means to be a Christian. If you think you are a Christian or LDS or whatever and you think salvation is about you being born again and you being saved - you do not understand. The Traveler

Be careful what you do with you ballot so that it is not disqualified. This may come as a surprise but party faithful (both parties) - that often watch and judge at polling places love to disqualify ballots - it is not about what the majority wants - it is all about party politics and control evel at all levels even the local level. Which is one reason to belong to and vote party and not person.The Traveler

There have been some very good posts. Some notes from my travels. Many wards have pot luck after regular Sunday meetings. It is a common practice in Taiwan. I tried to bring some unique American food all the way from America. I brought a case of beef jerky. The members did not like it much – they prefer squid jerky over beef which will cause most Americans to pass out. But the missionaries loved the beef jerky and ate it all. Sustaining is a very important part of ward conference – which includes general, stake and ward callings. I have been present when there have been hands contrary and in the case in point the person was released after interviews with those that objected. No other information was given – but sustaining should be taken seriously. It is also a time for teaching, training and feedback both from the stake to the ward and the ward to the stake. The Traveler

I did not get to respoond to another thread before it was closed - so hear you have it. I do not think that in the society of G-d (in heaven) that there has ever been or ever will be a two party system. I am not a believer (any more) in political parties. It is my personal belief and experience that parties tend to represent the party powerful and not the people. I find it interesting that “Christians” have tended towards governments more closely associated with Pagans (even in their religious organizations) than with the “ancient” Christian (Biblical) understanding of Kingdoms and Suzerain – servant vassals. I do not tend to get involved in national politics – ever since Nixon – I have not felt that one can determine a better candidate from another when it comes to national politics and parties. And this comes from someone that served for two years as the state legislative chairman for the parent – teacher – student association in the state of Washington. I do vote and I will enter a national candidate on my ballot so that it will not be disqualified for the local election that I do believe still; has some resemblance of representation to the people. I am sure this will end up closed - too bad - so sad. The Traveler

Forgiveness is closely linked to repentance. Part of forgiveness is the understanding through the spirit that the Christ has made “redemption” for all sins and thus we can be free from any ill affects of other’s sins. Perhaps the best example of forgiveness (as pointed out in President Faust’s April conference talk) was the Amish families that lost daughters in a brutal murder – yet reached out to the family of their murder to assist in their spiritual healing. If anyone has difficulty forgiving someone that has wronged them or someone they love – Jesus pointed out that such a un-forgiver cannot themselves be forgiven by G-d. President Spencer W. Kimball pointed out that regardless of the trespass it is the greater sin not to forgive. The last point concerning forgiveness – you can know you have forgiven someone when you finely are able to realize within yourself that you do not wish harm (or even spiritual condemnation) against those that trespassed against you. It is a matter of whose side you are on. Satan is the accuser of all and Jesus Christ is the advocate. The Traveler

And you know of another? I have read many books - for example "The Richest Man in Babylon”. The author talks about “investing” and letting your money “work” for you. Oh really? Money does not “work” but it does entice others to work. It is a very common practice of the rich to exploit those that “work for them” and pay them only a part of what their work produced – even to the point where they keep the bigger share for themselves. Sometimes making the excuse that they take a bigger risk. It is sad my friend – but the rich will not only profit from another man’s labor but they are so filled with pride that they think they deserve it. I will give another very interesting example. Have you ever noticed that someone that works in a garden and grows much of their own food – will rejoice over the abundance of their garden and take zucchini and other items they produced by their labor to their neighbors? But not a person that extracts wealth from those around them. They are so afraid of loosing their wealth because they know they cannot earn it on their own that they hoard such abundance and resent that someone in greater need might have the mind to take for them as they have taken from others. So tell me – my wise friend – tell me what I cannot see for myself. What manner of wealth is there that does not rely on the efforts of others; directly or indirectly for such wealth? The Traveler

I guess you have never heard of a slum lord? In our society there are no rich that have not accumlated their wealth from the labor of some one else. Who did Bill Gates "rob" from? How about a small (poor) company in Oregon that created "stacker" software? The Traveler

I do not disagree with you entirely. There is a little book called “The Law” written by Frederic Bastiat that purports your notion of legal plunder. It is one of my favorite books on defining good law. One thing we all should have learned from economics 101 is that nothing is free – somebody pays for everything. The other thing we should have learned is that the rich pay for precious little; that is why they are rich. On the other hand the poor pay for a great deal; that is in part of why they are poor. Part of the problem is that we need a bridge to get us from where we are currently to a position of a more ideal economy – if such a thing is possible. In your economic example every dollar the poor receive must come from the wealthier and every one of those dollars is for ever lost. That may not be entirely true. I believe there are many examples contrary to this model. But let us think instead in terms of cooperative investments in a human trust. If a community pools resources for fire protection the cost of savings is enormous; compared to each property owner responsible for their own. The concept of collective sharing needs and responsibilities is the very engine of community and society. However, if there is to be any community or society there must be rules established for the sharing of needs and responsibilities. I submit that the best way to establish such rules is by the “power” of the majority. I do not say that it is the perfect way or always the best way but that it is overall the best that I have been able to determine. It would appear to me that you believe that if you have the power that you should exercise that power for your benefit and your wants and desires. And just so you know – I oppose such methods of social engineering. The Traveler

My friend a-train: There are some things you should be aware of. The first is that Iran is not an Arabic country. Iran is a Persian country. The native language of Iran is not Arabic. There is no animosity among most Arabs concerning our western policies towards Iran – in fact there has been far grater barbarism given to Iran from Arabic countries than by any Western Country and this includes all the problems with the Shaw. Even during the Hajj there are divisions and factions in Islam that are against Iran being allowed to speak – something afforded to Moslems of even western countries. If you listen carefully some factions want to kill anyone that lives within Islamic territory that is not Islamic. We are hated more for freedom of religion than for what you call barbarism. Do you know what is done under Islamic law to those that convert to another religion and those that converted them? Are you aware that LDS missionaries are not allowed to proselyte a Moslem? Now when you are talking about human rights are you talking about nearly beating a woman to death for being raped? Are you talking about women not being allowed to drive a car, vote or attend college? Are you talking about freedom of religion? Are you talking about human rights to listen to the music of your choice? Are you talking about the execution of males that perform “female” homosexual roles and the men performing the “male” role in the relationship are of no concern. Do you remember when the Prime Minister of Iran said there are no homosexuals in Iran? Do you know why he said that? Now I want a straight answer. You talk about bad policies and you have not touched on any of the very bad policies our government has been involved with. Instead you are talking about corporate and business policies (oil) in the Middle East. What have US business done in the Middle East that is worse than what the same business have done here in the USA? Yet in other places on this forum you post that government should stay out of the way of business. Do we need less or more regulation of business to include government oversight of your paycheck? So tell me straight – Should government regulate how businesses do business – or just business debt? Should there be more regulation or less? The Traveler

How can there be investment on one side and not debt on the other? What is the difference between “return” on investment and interest? Can you point out to me any major private business venture of the 19th century that had the best interest of their workers in mind? Do you know why there was blood shed in forming unions? Should government require proper labeling? It was not required in the 19th century. Should government prevent addictive drugs like coke from being put into drinks and sold as safe and helpful (healthy) to the public – Do you know what business but in Coke during the 19th Century? The Traveler

Thank you for your post - and I agree The Traveler

Perhaps you should read about the Ottoman Empire (Lawrence of Arabia). Perhaps you should read the history of Bahrain. Perhaps you should read about the clashes between Islam and Hindus in India and Pakistan. Perhaps you should read about what the Moslems have done to Buddhist in Indo China. Perhaps you should become familiar with the rift between the Shiite and the Sonnies within the nation of Islam. I have posted in the past that the problems of the Middle East has more to do with Saudi Arabia and the royal family than it does to do with anything from any Western country. In addition the power struggles of the Middle East have more to do with water than oil. Even the Quran spells that out very plainly if you would take the time to read that. I agree that President Bush has blundered in ignorance over the Middle East – but I think you are reading from a narrow view of history to think the west and our capitalistic based democracy is the singular problem to that part of the world. The Traveler

For several years I have attempted to have open discussions about homosexuality. I admit that I have biased views. But it seems to me that by the logic of definition that a view is biased. I am not the type that demonizes homosexuality (there are homosexuals in my social circles and we get along fine). But I do feel that beneficial concepts are deliberately removed from the discussion. There are problems with social supports of homosexuality. Heterosexuality must be supported by society for a human population to exist beyond the current generation. To claim that homosexuality deserves the same support as heterosexuality makes no sense to me. Though mankind cannot exist without heterosexuality it can exist without homosexuality. One is a social necessity the other is not. If homosexuality is to be as socially supported as heterosexuality it must be as socially needed or the appeals must rely on something other than logic and this is where I take strong opposition to the arguments that lack logic and seem to appeal more to lack of real social concerns. Demonizing anyone that questions a concept makes me very suspicious. There can be no open discussion when one side is trying to prevent the other from speaking. If we are unwilling to hear the concerns of others then we cannot expect that others hear our concerns. The Traveler

Thank you for your efforts to help in understanding. The area I have difficulty understanding the Trinity; is if G-d can be divided into parts or not. Is the Son a differential part of G-d? Is the Son to be differentiated from the Father as a non equal part or as Jesus said less than his Father? Was Jesus correct in this doctrine or was he confused? The Traveler

The economy of the USA during the 19th century was more recession and depression than prosperity, over 50% of the banks failed and those that invested lost their entire life savings. More than 60% of farmers lost their farms (as did the Smith family twice). It was not until the 20th century that the federal government guaranteed and backed banks. And if I remember correctly the average life expectancy was less than 40 years of age.The concept of allowing business to operate without government regulation has not done well in just the last year. Two of the USA largest lending institutions booked over 20 billion dollars in loss. Thousands have lost their jobs and hundreds of thousands lost their homes and the economy of the entire industrialized world is now at risk. Not smart and it could get worse. I remember reading about a CEO that gave back over 700 million dollars and it was agreed that no “Laws” were broken so no prosecution. He took over 700 million that did not belong to him and no laws were broken? There needs to be some serious changes or the dollar will continue to shrink and the USA will cease to be a dominate power or even a major industrialized nation. How many products do you know of that are made (not assembled) in the USA? The largest contributor to the GNP? - are the pharmaceuticals. Lets put more people to work. Once we convince this nation to work there will be a difference. The Traveler

You might be interested to know that in 1960 that 60% of the poor in the US were elderly. The Traveler

Mark 14:7 Also please note that by the ancient biblical standards there are no poor in the USA. The Traveler

A note to the forum - I have blocked Elphaba post. Of course anyone that wishes can respond to her post but I ask you to please do not attempt to explain any of my post or concepts to Elphaba - If you want to express your opinions that is your concern. I am very capable of expressing my personal opinions. Thank you The Traveler

In another thread I mentioned the term negative income tax. I am convinced that few understand what this really means. Any time money that is taxed is used to help or benefit the poor – it could be said that the money involved was a form on negative income tax. One of the concerns I have of government is the propensity to use any control that government has to be come the exercise of power and control. The efforts to control the people through the issuing of government programs are of great concern to me. When I proposed the idea of negative income tax it was to remove control over people by individuals within the government. Under our current system of social engineering the government skims off the top of the funds intended to help the poor and needy, over 60% of the funds collected and set aside for such purposes. Those in the government speak of welfare reform but what they really mean is that they intend to collect more taxes, increase the controlling bureaucracy and place less funds among the poor and needy. Negative income tax changes this need of government control over people. This is how it works. Those that earn and create wealth above a “poverty level” pay taxes and support the government with monies. Those that earn and create wealth below a “poverty level” can apply for a subsidy to help them. How any individual spends the money at their disposal is their business and not that of government. The subsidy that is received by the poor is designed such that any person that is willing to work and earn an income will always have more disposal money to spend. The more money they make the less subsidy they receive but that ratio is not dollar for dollar. So a person earning a dollar may only lose 60 cents in subsidy. Thus every person has incentive to work for more money. Note that this would eliminate the need for a minimum wage. Also note that to qualify for a tax subsidy, one must be a citizen. The Traveler

One of the interesting points of Christian doctrine as understood among the LDS is that even though there is a G-dhead comprised of the Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost that we would only come to know personal things about the Son – who is Jesus Christ. Though we know of the Father and Holy Ghost we are given very little to know of them. Though the Holy Ghost testifies that the Father is G-d and that Jesus Christ is his Son we know very little of the Holy Ghost. It is only through Christ that we learn of G-dlyness. The Traveler

I thought I would add once when I did a good job of discipline. When my oldest son was a teenager and having problems in dealing with his family he, on one occasion became angry screamed at my wife stormed to his bed room and slammed the door. I then went and got some tools and removed the door from his bedroom. He asked we what I was doing and I answered that the door to his room belonged to me and when he could convince me that he would treat my door with a little more respect I would consider letting him use it again. When he finely asked for the door back – I asked how would I understand that he would not slam it anymore – even when he was very angry. In later years he admitted to me that that was one on the great changing events of his life. He has a rather strong personality (temper) and he said that this (and other events) convinced him that he should learn to control his temper. I tell this story because at the time I really want to take that kid “to the wood shed” but the spirit seemed to whisper to try something else. The Traveler

Just a note: I try to understand the scriptural term of "fearing" G-d as having respect and honor towards G-d. Most would avoid that which they fear. The Traveler

Yes - the invite does go out to all but it would seem the rich are more interested in other things. Jesus indicated that the rich have a harder time than the poor when it comes to spiritual things - I would also add that if you are viewing this from your own computer - you should consider yourself in the class of "rich". The Traveler

I am still stuck at the airport so here is my understanding as a scientist. As we look around it can be difficult to realize what is true and lasting from what is an illusion and temporary. Some people think that physical things are real – but what will such things be in 10,000 years – or a billion years – or a trillion years. Many scientist say the even the universe will fade into thermodynamic nothingness and chaos. So what is real? A testimony is the ability to see beyond the façade of what some call physical reality and realize that such things cannot endure but that there is a reality that will remain when that which is temporary has passed. Only that which is spiritual will endure. Without a belief in that which is eternal (religion if you will) one cannot see beyond that which is temporary – regardless of how much they pretend or try to copy – by their own admission – without a belief in the eternal (a definition of G-d) they have nothing that can last. The Traveler