Traveler

I have wondered if there is any connections to what appears to be an epidemic of senseless killings and the influences of unclean spirits in our society. In ancient scriptures we encounter Jesus casting out unclean spirits as often as he healed the sick. Unclean spirits seemed to be a rather common thing back then. In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Alma tells one dissenter that they were being influenced by a “lying spirit”. It seems that the news is full of young couples where one kills the other and everybody that knew them is shocked because the killers were so “nice” but then we find out that there was a secret side where the killer was involved in some strange thing or some strange scam. Why would a popular minister’s wife (also popular in the congregation) kill her husband? And then we have the Mark Hacking case - all of which seem so out of character. Now we hear that the killer of children at the Amish school, “hated” G-d. Does this not seem strange to anyone? Consider the Gospel of John Chapter 8:34 “...Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” Verse 41 “Ye do the deeds of your father.....” verse 42 “....If G-d were your Father, ye would love me {and the things Jesus taught and stood for}.....” Verse 44 “Ye are of your father the devil and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a Murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth.....” I submit that a sure indication of the influence of unclean spirits in a society is the increasing occurrence of murders that do not make any sense and the murderer having been hiding secrets (living a lie). The Traveler

I have stated in the past that in 80% of the garages in this country I could make a gun that would kill somebody. I could also make weapons of other sorts. Most of the instructions for making such things can be found on the internet. With that said I would assert that guns are not the problem many think. I would submit that drugs kill far more children than guns. But guns are glorified in the news and drugs are downplayed. Did you know that on average 300 children die every year trying their first cigarette? When was the last time you heard about that on the news? How many of the children that die from guns come from single parent or welfare homes? I would point out that the USA has the highest number of single parent and welfare homes raising children. It is now over 50% of our children. How many children that kill or get killed are in association with some drug - illegal or even legal Psych drug? Did you know that by federal mandate that if a child that was currently on legal Psych drugs or was on such drugs is involved in killing, that it is classified and cannot be published in the news? Wonder how the drug companies pulled that one off? The truth is - this country really does not care about its next generation or providing any specific supports for biological families - which is the best way to raise and protect children. Even on this forum to suggest such ideas will get you labeled a bigot and homophobic. When I grew up there was no gun control - guns were not banned from schools and no one ever heard about some nut case shooting children at schools. What has changed in our society in the last 40 years to create this problem? The Traveler BTW: With all the problems with guns, I have yet to hear about a single case where the problem was from someone with a concealed or carry permit. Not one case and there are hundreds of thousands of concealed and carry permits. The Traveler

I will add a new thought to this discussion. I do not believe that a belief in G-d will cause a person to be peaceful. I agree with Sgallan that there is another factor. The first murder that is recorded in scripture was when Cain slew Able. It is interesting to note the role that Satan played in that murder. I am not an advocate of "Satan made me do it'. But it does appear to me that Satan has influence over some people more than others. I would submit that murder is the result of the influence of a unclean spirit. It has always been interesting to me that many murders are made in anger and that afterwords the individual often suffers from remorse and regret. It seems to me that when a person is given into the influences of anger that they will do things that cause them regret and a feeling that it really was not their desire to kill. Then there are those that have come to enjoy their anger so much that they become "high" and do very much enjoy the killing - Ted Bundy comes to mind. The Traveler

I think we can be quite sure that there were many peoples encountered both to the land Bountiful (where the ship was built) and in the Americas. There are records among the Chinese of a journey to the Americas as well as evidence in the Americas of Chinese influence. The records that come to us through the golden plates is a very short history giving a "religious" acount. There are some hints in the Book of Mormon of other people encountered. One theory is that the Laminites mingled with a civilization of people that caused them to have a darker skin. The Traveler

The human body is a temple. Regardless of when a spirit inhabits it does not reflect well on those that desecrate temples. The Traveler

Part of the problem in translations is understanding what was first meant and then finding the correct meaning in the new language. In addition, sometimes names became associated with what great men did and thus the name became a title as well and were used in the language. For example dead end jobs in our society have come from the term Mc job. The word cheaters evolved from officals that "cheated" at sporting events. The Traveler

This is general ignorance of scriptures. When the ancient Hebrews (first temple era and before) talked about moving their house hold often it involved a lot more than the characters named as family members. For example Abraham moved his house hold to the promised land and then took from among his servants an army of 300 men to save Lot and he has had how many children? The wars between the Nephites and Lamanites as large civilizations did not occur within 30 years of Lehi arriving in the Americas. It is obvious that these so-called traditional Christians are nothing more than religious bigots that have never read the Book of Mormon are checked out any of the references they use to criticize it. You are wasting your time. Our purpose is to gathered scattered Israel from among the gentiles. If your traditional Christians are not interested in the prophesies concerning the gathering of Israel there will be no more gained among them than Jesus was able to gather from among the Pharisees and Scribes that crucified him. It may be time for you to become familar with scripture. I wish you well. The Traveler

When I was in high school I took my father's rifle to school to put a new finish on the stock and blue the barrel as a Christmas gift for my father. The rifle did not fit in my locker so I took it with me to the classes I had before shop, placing the gun on the floor beside my desk. I as not even asked what I was doing with the gun in school. What has changed? Why have school children of our current society become murders of their peers? I do not believe that it is access to guns nor do I believe it is just the media - I grew up with guns in my bed room watching cowboys shoot each other on TV and in the movies - as did my friends. If someone was killed by gun it was an accident. The Traveler

Part of the problem is the terminology. For example taking upon one's self the name of G-d. To me this means that one acts for G-d as he would if he was here. Or in other words to pretend you are G-d to do what he would do. I do not understand what EV's think they are doing when they say they are taking upon them, G-d's name. It almost appears to be meaningless. Sort of, something the scriptures say you should do so they say they do it - but it really does not mean anything associated with G-dlyness. As to the concept of being saved. It is my understanding that being saved is the saving of man from the "Fall". It is important to be saved from our own sins but that involves our repentance and therefore is not the free gift. The free gift is being saved from the fall. Therefore, since all have fallen, all need to be saved from the fall - even little children that are innocent and never sinned but may have passed from this life through death. All are fallen and must be saved from the fall. To be able to live everlasting with G-d is a blessing for those that seek through covenants and obedience the ability to enjoy divine everlasting life. The Traveler

I have learned by sad experience that it does not matter if the media is sympathetic or not - They sill almost always get something important wrong in any story. I have pleaded many times if someone wants to learn about any group that they correspond directly with someone devout in that group. As one trained in combat and war I am amazed how little society knows about war. I have yet to see a movie demonstrate correctly setting up a defensive perimeter or penetrating a guarded facility. I am also concerned about the politics of war and the politicians that have been in combat that misrepresent what must be done in preparing for war. I regret that we do not train youth for war better than we do. Many forget that the Boy Scouts was established as an organization to prepare youth for combat and war. I found what I learned as a boy scout one of the most important preparations for military service. The concept of "doing a good turn daily", and a pledge of honor to G-d and country has become almost a attitude of shame. What few seem to understand that being able to serve in the military is not so different from being able to serve in society. I have always felt that someone that does not serve in the military should not be allowed full citizenship. This because they have false sense of security concerning defending a society. The Traveler

I think we do have a rather different paradigm. Want is a strange idea that can be greatly misused. I have never thought of Jesus or the Father as being caught up in demanding what they want. As far as paradigm - I believe the first step towards evil is the effort to satisfy personal wants and desires. The first step toward righteousness is the sacrifice of personal wants and desires. I think Satan is one that believes in persuing what he wants - not the Father. I think there is great error in thinking G-d is good because he wants to be. I think that being good is something that must be learned, developed and acomplished with great effort, faith and trust. I do not think that evil individuals started out wanting evil but that they became lazy and took the easy road. The Traveler

Does SMALLVILLE have a football team?

I cannot speak for everybody but I can speak for myself. I have never gone through a period of inactivity and I am in my 60's. I would welcome you back and would personally do anything possible to help you repent. However, repetance is something you must do - the first step is the step back. If someone does not welcome you that is their problem - do not worry about them. Lets start building your house on a rock and forget the sand and those building there. Take the first step and return. The prodical son had some issues with his brother but that was setteled between that son and the father. Welcome home - where you belong. The Traveler

I will add one more thought. A true prophet (or teacher) will say, act and behave as the L-rd would if he was there instead of the prophet or teacher. This is the essence of taking upon one's self the "Name" of G-d. Everyone has an opinion - but when we pretend our opinions are the opinions of G-d we are in essence pretending to be G-d. I think this is why Jesus indicated that some men that did things in the "Name" of the L-rd would not be recognized. The Traveler

I think that Jesus said quite clearly that he would perfer not to partake of the "bitter cup" indicating that it was not his will to do so but that he would submit to the will of the Father. I think this defines the essence of a sacrifice. I do not define "doing what you want" as a sacrifice. The Traveler I think this is a very powerful statement. Understanding this give great insight in one of the most important aspects of G-d and his efforts to enlighten man with full knowledge of good and evil and then allowing man to choose. The Traveler

In regards to Jesus you almost have the point. What you do not seem to understand is that he sacrificed what he wanted for his Father's will. It was not about him and what he would get, grow into or be glorified with. Despite your opinion, I really do not think he was ever into it for the glory or any personal benefit. I also do not think his sacrifice was for your praise. I do believe your sacrifice would be meaningful. Not only would you obtain tremendous insight into the omnipotence of G-d but you would (like Jesus) be like our Father. The Traveler

General Paton during WWII said that a good trooper is willing to live for his country and let the other die for theirs. I think it is more important to live by example for G-d than it is to die for principles one cannot live up to. I guess the real question is what does a youth think it means to Die for G-d or for the cause. What was the impression at the camp. Since I was not there I cannot speak to this. The Traveler

If I remeber correctly you give the meaning of this verse as something along the lines of "If you want to know about mormonism, only go to mormon sites" (emphasis added)I feel it just means that A good tree doesn't produce evil fruit, and an evil tree doesn't produce good fruit. Not "where" you get your good fuit from. Josh B) I am well aware that you have pre-determined interpretations to justify your view. No intelligent person tries to get grapes from thorn bushes. The problem presented in Christ's example is not in the fruit but where a false teacher intends to get it. There is another thought. A title of Jesus is advocate. A title of Satan is advisory. Are you an advocate or are you an advisory? The Traveler

It is interesting that when ever the "knowing by fruits" is quoted the rest of the scripture is always left out. The example of fruits of false teachers is given in the question: "Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles?" Though I have given meaning or answer to this question I have yet to see any other interpretation given - especially to those that try to gather grapes of thorns and figs of thistles. Is the meaning that hard to understand? - perhaps so if someone does not have eyes to see and ears to hear. The Traveler

I would say the first defining attribute of an Omnipotent G-d is sacrifice. It appears to me that the creation was a great act of divine sacrifice for un-deserving and perhaps unthankful man. I am not sure we understand such sacrifice. For every sacrifice we make, there is the impression that G-d blesses us so we get a greater reward; therefore there is no true sacrifice. Look at the arguments concerning salvation (faith or works). Lost in such arguments is the understanding that sacrifice does something for someone else but I see the focus of arguments concerning salvation - as get it for me, me, me and what blessings I can get for me by my faith or my works. Few seem to understand the sacrifice of Jesus was so that others may benefit - not him. I think salvation is really understood when our faith and works benefit others in a manner like that of Jesus without the focus on ourselves. Until we arrive at that point I think we kid ourselves about the me, me, me attitude concerning salvation. Until we understand that it is more about sacrifice (giving) than getting - salvation will be nothing more than an illusion. The Traveler

I see what you're saying with most of your post, but you lost me here... Tell that to a child who is tortured and buried alive, or a parent of that child. If we think of the age of the universe - 12 to 15 billion years and think of this in terms of distance - or a foot = 1,000 years then you could think of your age since the universe existed as a some where in the 700 miles range or the distance from Salt Lake City to LA. The average life of a person on mortal earth and able to suffer is just over 1 1/2 inch. If you were driving from SLC to LA and for the time it took you to travel about 1/2 inch you suffered the worse pain possible for that time - how bad could it be? Shakespear once wrote "Nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so." I agree that the pain and suffering caused by evil is not a wonderful thing. The point is simple - regardless of how bad you can think or make the pain - it will pass and through the atonement of Christ there will be healing - a complete healing. No one that does not choose evil will suffer pain beyond our mortal probation. But those that choose evil will suffer the pain of that child tortured and buried alive and the parent beyond this life - It is my understanding that in this life the pain is nothing to be comparied to the suffering after this life. But we tend to not care about that. The Traveler

There is a question as to why G-d allows evil. First off, evil is not allowed in the everlasting habitation of G-d the Father. All that is evil is expelled from his presents. Because evil must exist for there to be good, G-d has provided a place for evil and those that embrace evil to habitat. In the Eden epoch we learn that to become a G-d (or like G-d) one must obtain a knowledge of good and evil. Since evil is not allowed where G-d the Father is; a place was provided where a knowledge of good and evil could be obtained. In order for man to be in that place where a knowledge of good and evil could be obtained man had to experience a fall from the habitation of G-d the Father. Once we (men and women) have gained an knowledge of good and evil by experience we then are able to choose which we prefer. Those that prefer good - demonstrated by loyalty to G-d commandments, covenants, and ordinances are rewarded good through the atonement of Christ. Those that prefer something other than good - demonstrated by lack of loyalty are belief in the necessity of commandments, covenants and ordinances are allowed their choice through the atonement of Christ. In this life pain and suffering are way overrated. This is but a moment and those that suffer in a manner similar to the suffering of Christ and seek not their will - shall learn to be like G-d. The Traveler

The only way to know G-d is to be like him. I am learning of him through keeping his commandments. I have encountered the influence and teaching of his mediator. Mortal life is his way of helping us know the truth - the difference between good and evil. Yes - When they take upon themselves the attributes of those truths and become like G-d concerning those things. G-d is our advocate. Satan is our adversary. Those that utilize the methods of adversary are the false prophets inspired by Satan - this is why I have always suggested we learn of anything from advocates before we ever consider the words of adversaries. Yes - they are identified by their anti or adversary aproach. (Like a wolf among sheep). Yes - They behave like they know G-d (see above). When, like G-d, you are willing to give your life for the sheep. Giving your life means giving it to the will of G-d and being loyal to his commandments and being like him. The answer is yes - by beying loyal to covenants with G-d (being like G-d), you will know the truth and the truth will make you free. The Traveler

One of the problems in this thread is that most seem to be thinking inside a 3 dimensional universe (which we may agree was created by G-d - what-ever the meaning of creation is). What we think we have been able to come up with as logical contradictions of our universe may not be so difficult for someone in 4 (or more) dimensions. In addition, I also find it interesting that many people think of laws as limitations rather than a means of power and freedom. Perhaps we are approaching this all wrong. Jesus said that a knowledge of the truth is the means of freedom. It would seem to me that the power of G-d we think we are trying to understand may not be what we are trying to define in this thread. True omnipotence may be nothing more than knowledge and self-control. In essence this seems to me what G-d is trying to get us to understand and experience. The Traveler

I agree with Snow (perhaps a first). Just because we think something is impossible does not mean that it is. Perhaps a circle in our 3 dimentions is a squar in 17 dimentions. Or because our universe is "curved" perhaps a large enough squar with black holes in the right places would become a circle. When we ask the wrong question we get invalid answers. When we ask what "can" be - we might begin to think that it will be. Can there be peace in the middle east? The answer is meaningless because dispite all that can be; there is only one something that will be and that is not likely peace. When we speculate what G-d can do it is meaningless because how are we going to prove or settle the question. One object of faith, is a faith in the truth of what G-d will do. If we have faith G-d will do something that he has already decided he will not do; our faith is a false faith that will lead us into much sorrow and confusion. The real questions are not what G-d "can" do but what he "will" do. The Traveler