Misshalfway

This is a piece that I can't reconcile in my mind. If God can't look on sin with the least degree of allowance, and if we are admonished not to justify in committing a little sin.... I don't understand why one sin is ok....as long as it is not repeated to much. Why the lag time between sin and consequences? (I am a little tired today...having a hard time finding words. :) ) Is that the mercy of God or the grace of God to you?

Why would Jesus come and show himself to the twelve in his resurrected form if he didn't have a body of flesh and bone? What would be the point of that experience? Weren't they to witness the event so they could testify to the world? What is resurrection then if it is not the reuniting of the body and the spirit?

Sure! No one should be that hard on themselves. I guess I wonder about situations where a person has legitimately been saved, as you put it, and then commits serious sin. Wouldn't that condition put their salvation in jepardy? Isn't repentance necessary to restore them to full favor with God?

You are right. The argument is as old as the hills!!!

Oh. Thank you. That helps. We take that time as well before taking the sacrament. I think we differ a bit in that we believe each time you repent, it makes you more and more converted. But, I think I see what you are saying. Again, thank you for your patient and gentle response.

Funny! Where were guys like this when I was dating in college? Kissed a lot of frogs.....KWIM?

They were both brilliant and selfless!

I am so sorry PC. But I don't get it. Why would the blood of Christ cover the sin? If I knowingly sinned, and I didn't take steps to repair the damage I had done and ask forgiveness, etc., then isn't that sin still in my heart? Christ would take away the stain because he was nice? Because all the rest of my confessions of Christ would make up the difference? What of justice? Can mercy rob justice?

I'm quite certain that any sound Christian teacher would counsel a Christian who had sinned to repent. Whether salvation can be lost or not, the believer wants to please his/her Savior, and would repent and have remorse when failing to do so. So, is repentance part of the Gospel of Jesus or just a good idea?

So.... does God come to man or does man come to God? If God says that he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, doesn't sin separate us from God? Isn't this the role of the Savior, to bridge the gap between the sinner and the Father? It sounds like to loose salvation..... it would be ok for one to be sinful up to a certain degree. Someone once told me they would be saved.... unless they committed murder. But that adultry.,... and other things were made up by the grace of the Lord.

So both reformed and evanglelical would tell someone (they believed saved) that God has assured them their salvation now and that it can never be lost, no matter what they do. Those that do appear to be lost were actually never really found. This is how I thought it was. But PC says that they still need to repent if they make a mistake. Perhaps that is his take on it. I have met people who believe that they will never be lost, no matter what they do. I can't decide if that doctrine is coming from organized religion or from the interpretations of the individual. And I think that it is sad to me that most Christians see our focus on obedience as earning. I wonder if the verbage gets in the way of true understanding.... Anyway, thank you for your answer.

I said that wrong. We can forgive ourselves. I just meant that it is only thru the atonement that salvation is possible.....Grace. PC, do you guys believe that if you are not faithful to the end that salvation won't come to you?

To Mormons, earning salvation is impossible too. We can't resurrect ourselves. We can't forgive ourselves. It is all grace. And grace in the very actions of our daily lives helping us live and overcome the sins of the day. I think that this is a misconception about the mormon faith. We believe that we must be obedient for blessings of the Lord to come into our lives. Disobedience has its consequences too. I think this might be where the misunderstanding lies. I am glad to understand this better. I actually thought being "saved" was the easy way to God. Like all one has to do is confess Christ, and you have got it made. That felt like earning to me. But that didn't make complete sense to me considering all the discussions about Heaven and Hell. Hmmm...... I think I understand a little better.

Wow. Ok. Thanks. That seems so close to what I believe. So, being saved isn't a guarantee of salvation. Is that right? Or is it like getting your birthright.... but then having the potential of losing it? I assume a person would get judged at the great and last day. Right? So, what is it about the LDS view that is different from what you just said? The differences I see are that I don't see myself as saved... I see myself as obedient and gathered into the flock. The 'being saved' status won't come until the judgment. Aren't we saying the same thing but using different terms?

Is that what the scriptures mean when they say the earth shall be "rolled like a scroll"? I was just reading that and didn't understand. But if it is rolled back to reveal the presence of God...that might make sense to me. Hmmm......

This is called staying out of peoples business.

The only thing worse would be someone who drifts from the church and no one notices.

Oh thanks. I think you and I see the concept the same. I am trying to learn about non-lds perspectives. How does one who is "saved" answer the question? If one is "saved", aren't they assured a seat in heaven? If that is so, then what if they sin? I am wondering how those questions are answered outside of mormondom.

I love 'em all. How do you expect me to pick? Ok. Gideon. Moses. Enoch. Teancum. Abish. Deborah. Ester. Nephi. Mormon. Alma. Abinidi. See......I just can't choose!

Chieko Okasaki married her Ed and he was not a member. They balanced it just fine. He did eventually convert, but she would have managed just fine had things stayed as they started.

Could someone please explain to me how personal responsibility and accountability work in the "saved by grace" philosophy? EDIT: I think I need to add that I want to understand it from the non LDS Christian perspective. Thanks.

We don't believe that the gospel of Christ completely vanished from the earth. We do believe that Christ did set up an organized church. He called Peter to be at the head and twelve apostles to lead and preach. He gave commandments like baptism and missionary work. The people at that time were wicked enough to kill all the prophets. The purity of the church organization was lost. The pure gospel of Jesus Christ was reinterpreted so very many times. Plain and precious truths, as we say, were lost, as was the priesthood authority to act in the name of Christ -- authority that was given to Peter by the laying on of hands. I do believe that there is a lot of truth in the world. I do believe that God reveals truth to whoever seeks it. And think that Christianity itself has been preserved by faithful groups and individuals that loved the Savior. Thank goodness for them.

I think that we should always be willing to help another. But to do for another what he can do for himself is a disservice. I think sometimes we get confused about what is our responsibility and what is not. Balance is the key. I call it care taking vs. caring for. The BofM mentions administering to the needs of others according to their needs and wants. I also love the welfare principles on this one. I also think that our modern culture sometimes teaches us to be so individualistic. I don't think this is a principle of Christianity. We must have personal responsibility .... balanced with our responsibility for others. The two live together. We want to help .... not weaken each other.

This needs to be a matter of prayer. How does God feel about this? This is one of those gray areas for me. If it were me, I wouldn't feel comfortable in that living situation....not because of my friend.....just because of my new found devotion. But, perhaps there are other creative solutions here. I definitely think that a conversation with the mission leaders might be helpful. If they do counsel you to change your living arrangement, how will you feel about that? The question most certainly will come up in the baptismal interview. But hey, glad you are going to be baptized. Welcome to the flock!

Yes. I see your point too. But I think there are some who wait for everything to be proven to them before they will believe. And I don't think that is God's process. Line upon line.....