Misshalfway

What about all my other questions? What about your prophet? He is a man. How do you know what he says is from God? How do RELIABLY know anything concrete? I have heard time and time again that you all have had an "experience" with holy spirit. Did you read my last couple posts about spirits? Can you tell me how you know this is God? Yes. Our prophet is a man. And we are asked to follow him, but only after we pray to the Father and gain our own spiritual witness about what he says. After a while though, one doesn't really need to pray over everything. Once you understand the role of prophet, seer, and revelator and you understand that there are times he speaks as a prophet and times he speaks as a man, it makes it easier to follow. You start working on more expedient questions. I think, that I understand what God's Spirit feels like much like you might. I suppose if I asked you about your Spiritual awareness of a God, would you not describe an inner knowing? I know that there is a God, because I pray and He answers. I know what the Holy Ghost feels like because I practice listening to it daily. And now I am pretty good at recognizing when I am feeling it vs. my emotions or flatterings from the adversary. The reason that "I know" is because the revelations of the Holy Spirit are more powerful than any earthly evidence. They burn themselves into my soul. The more I obey the promptings, the more I know. I do feel doubt on occasion. But my Spiritual knowledge/experiences help me navigate my way thru that doubt to a place of more faith. As does continual prayer and continual spiritual communications that guide me around the ideas of man and the ideas of those who would seek unrighteous things for my welfare. I think this is why earthy evidence doesn't interest most of us. It is very interesting.... and when it confirms faith then it is a bonus. But it is not the origin of my faith and I don't rely on it to lead my along my journey in life.

I too think that this verse is misunderstood. I myself have mistakenly thought that I needed to make my self as perfect as I could and then present it to the Lord for Him to then make up the difference. I am learning now, that the Grace... or tender mercies of the Lord are woven throughout each and every step of the process. His support and guidance and help is there wherever I am on the road to repentance and progression.

My understanding is that Adam did assist in the creation of parts of this earth and that this occurred prior to the placing of Adam in the Garden with his human body. I think that the texts try to explain these events and depending on the author and the translation, there are sure to be different descriptions. These tiny details are interesting, and as you know, don't relate much to our eternal salvation. I think that it does make clear that Adam was the first of father's Spirit children to dwell upon this planet. I think the BofM gets referred to as "modern" revelation because its presence was revealed to Joseph in modern times. It was also written, not for the Nephites and Lamanites, but for the people of today to try the faith of the people and to bring people to Christ. EDIT: One more thought. For me, the Book of Mormon does make sense as an ancient text. I just think archeology has yet to fully catch up.

I like LDS. Mormon works for people not of our faith, but it is an inaccurate label. I don't mind it when someone uses it. But if someone were desiring to be respectful, using LDS would do the trick. I wouldn't mind hearing that we are a Christian denomination on occasion. That would be a nice change.

Is the issue more doctrinal or is it more about losing his family? I think that when this happens, sometimes the issue is really pain. Perhaps he hoped his family would come round. And now that a few years have gone by, maybe the reality of the loss is setting in. I think what you do is empathize like crazy! Listen to that pain inside of him. Help him get clear about his feelings. It is ok if this takes some time. What contact do you all have with his family? His mother must have felt such hurt not being able to be at her son's wedding. Maybe the pain inside of him now can serve as a catalyst to change. Help him see that Father can help this situation. He can heal this family. When was the last time your H tried to reach out to his mother or his sister? If it a constant stream of rejection, then I can see your options might be limited. But if it is both parties sitting in silence doing nothing, then perhaps the two of you could fast and pray and decide on some loving actions to take to move towards the middle. Could he reach out and say, "sis, I miss you! Let's talk this out." or Maybe you could contact the family and express how much you love them and miss them. Ask God to show you the path you should follow. I am so sorry that these things happen. That marriage thing is a hard one for everybody. And I can understand the pain for all of you. Stay strong in the truth. And part of that truth is that these things hurt sometimes. Stay loving and understanding and be the best listener. It is not God's fault or J Smith's fault. But it is easy to direct our anger and pain to them. It is easy to blame the church for causing the rift.... cause it kinda did. But, at some point, your H can still stand true to his choice and own that. He can also take proactive steps to healing the relationship with his family. Stay close to the spirit. Keep doing the things the fill your home with the spirit as well. Keep praying together with him if you can. And remember, it is part of the process of faith to go thru hard times and feel doubt. This is the battle that strengthens us. We won't sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob without a few of these hard fought battles under our belts. His relationship with his family doesn't have to end. It may need to evolve into an acceptance of these new circumstances. His mother can heal and learn that she didn't really lose her son. And your husband can learn to empathize with what it is like to be a mother who didn't get to attend her son's wedding. They perhaps won't see everything eye to eye. But the more we reach out to understand each other without judgement the better. I think your husband is going thru his first reality check -- his first faith testing trial. We all have them. It will be OK.

Love your post! I think this is the part of the Book where it all comes together. Love Mormon. He was truly mighty. Love how you describe the words jumping into your soul. Beautiful. I feel so much of the same.

I will tell you what I believe. I believe I have been sitting in this seat too long! I will leave you to your discussions. I am off to deliver birthday invitations for my son. Hope you enjoy the day.

We are waiting for Rock band to come out for the Wii. Everyone says it is a blast.

Working my way thru piles of laundry. I am always amazed at the damage four kids can do. Wish I had some good questions for you today. But frankly I am all questioned out! Read anything interesting?

Hey DS, How you doing today?

To the OP, It kinda seems to me like you are looking for one answer. You want someone to agree with you and tell you that you are right. I don't think any other answer will satisfy you. We believe the Book of Mormon because of our spiritual experience with it. We believe the Bible for the same reason. No one on this board can convince you to consider our position. It seems that you have already made up your mind. So why continue arguing? Nothing good really ever comes from contests like this. I wish you peace and answers in your search. I hope that is what you are doing. If not, and you are looking to disprove or win a war of words, then I hope at some point you will see that the effort isn't fruitful.

I can't add much to this conversation. And frankly, I hesitate in joining because conversations like this one go round and round with no end and no resolution. But I will say, that polygamy was condoned in the old testament for some and condemned for others. It is a question for all who follow the Old Testament. And I just watched a special on the History Channel about how there is absolutely no evidence that the Exodus took place or that the Israelites were ever enslaved by the Egyptians. No record other than the Bible itself. If evidence is what you need to have a testimony, you better question the OT as well. You come here to argue the imperfections of Mormon theology. But, how can you explain all the contradictions that exist in the mainstream Christianity? Some of you believe the trinity. Some believe the Father and Son to be individuals. Some don't even know how to explain what they believe. How do you explain how many churches there are. Many who don't even have the name of Christ in the title? So many doctrines understood and interpreted so differently, how could anyone settle the question with an appeal to the bible. The Christians and Jews and Muslims can't agree on the OT, yet they share the same reverence. Yet, you come here telling us how perfect you all understand the bible. Can you prove that it has been perfectly translated? Can you prove whether or not passages were taken out? Can you prove evil hearts have never tried to use the book to control the people? . You say that the Bible is the only word of God. In my opinion, that view severely limits God. Why wouldn't you want more information if the Lord were willing to reveal it?? I love the Bible. What would Mormon's do without the account of the birth, life, and death of the Savior? That record is irreplaceable to us. But we believe Christ lived and died for the whole earth. We believe he came to America to minister and that he explained that he would minister other places as well. Yes, we do disagree with mainstream christianity on certain points. I could never understand the trinity. How and why would Christ pray to himself? It is a difference. A big one. But that point, you can't prove with all of your quotes and arguing. It is a point that must be settled by God himself. We believe God calls prophets. Just like Moses. Moses had to change his revelations to his people because they were wicked. I don't believe God would let man compile a book and let that book be more powerful than His very voice. Why would he stop giving revelation for the current times? It doesn't make sense to me that He would leave us alone to figure it all out without His revelation. Where in the Bible does it teach to get your testimony from scientific or archeological proof? Where does it say that God will stop talking to man? Where does it say that he will not visit his people thru-out the earth? "Other Sheep I have which are not of this fold..." I love the BofM. Not because J Smith said it was correct. I read it and saw it change my heart and my happiness. I have received more spiritual communications from my reading of it than any other place in my personal study. That is evidence to me. I trust it because God himself gave it to me. Why should I trust your slanted posts over my personal witness from God? I think that you are saying that you get your spiritual information from proof. Well, we don't. We get our spiritual information from revelation. And then we try to obey, even if it is unpopular.

I think whatever study guides a person uses, the Spirit is the best teacher to discern whether what you read is correct, or just that scholars educated opinion.

Fasting 101. Designate some time where your schedule is free. Like a couple of days. Time you can dedicate to the effort. Skip two meals. I usually start after dinner on Sat and end my fast with dinner on Sun. Start your fast with a prayer. Start with gratitude. Give thanks for what you feel are your blessings. Discuss with the Lord your needs, wants, desires, etc. Ask him to bless you with faith to guide your efforts in finding the very answer you posted. Ask God to tell you he is there and to confirm your path. Pour out your heart and soul. Empty the tank. Dedicate the next hours to study, pondering, and more prayer. Relax and enjoy your the experience. It may help to dedicate some time to someone else. Visit an elderly person and listen to their old stories. Some quiet exercise focused on someone else. Exercise whatever faith your have. Put doubts and logic and skepticism to the side. End your fast with prayer. I don't always get my answers during this period or even right after. I find it prepares me for future answers. Leave the timing of the answers to the Lord. Then rinse and repeat. :) Fasting once a month will deepen your devoted search. It may help to do a scripture search on fasting. Get the doctrine in your head. It may help to include your wife in the fast. Or maybe you want to fly solo on this one. I do know that when people fast together for a single purpose, the power of the request increases.

You could fast. Fasting adds more power to prayer.

There are many answers to this question. My first answer is I don't know the wisdom behind the set up. I do know that God does give truth to the Nations. Even though the christian world doesn't believe it, we believe Christ visited his sheep in America. He told those early American's that he would visit other sheep around the globe. Just because we don't have the documentation yet, doesn't mean He didn't cover all the bases. Temple work covers the rest of the answer. As does the millenium. We are on this planet to gain experience first and foremost. God will take care of making sure each and every soul has the opportunity to hear and accept the truth. It will all come out in the wash....as they say.

I don't know why God hasn't blessed you with this knowledge yet. I can only guess. This past year, my suffering became so profound that I questioned everything about my faith. I questioned the existence of a God. I questioned the LDS church and every church in my defiance and thru the tears of my pain. I prayed. Months went by. No answers. Why? I would ask myself? What have I done? Doesn't He care? Why wouldn't he answer and deliver me? I can't share with you how the knowledge came to me on this forum. But I can tell you that God was there! Even when I didn't know it. He has answered my prayers. He left me alone for a time so that I would learn. And learn I did! I know He exists and that he loves me and that I am indeed on the right path. My knowledge is so sure, I cannot escape it. I argue with it some days cause I don't like all that the truth brings sometimes. But I cannot deny it. Believe me. I have tried! I can't prove it to you. I sometimes wonder why I insist on trying. I admit it. It is because I am a sentimental fool and I care. But I absolutely know! And I say it from the depth of my humility. And I pray in my heart that you someday will feel the spirit that I feel. Be believing, DS. Put your doubt and logic and your need to see evidence to the side. It will always be there. But it doesn't serve you now, so discipline it like you would a child with gentle understanding as you say, "not right now". Broken heart, contrite spirit! Even if you don't know how to .... or even if every part of your nature objects! Be believing and go the distance in that believing....... God will meet you there!

To tell you the truth, I am at my whits end. Nothing I say makes a difference. I will have to drug her to do it. Force her for her own good. God won't do that. He doesn't mess with our free will. If he did so he would cease to be God. Spiritual knowledge isn't free. God requires things first. He requires these things first because with spiritual knowledge comes responsibility. He doesn't just give it because you demand it. You need to study about what the prereq's are. You need to discipline yourself to these. You need to show God you are ready for the responsibility that will follow. That you are willing to be obedient. D&C 9:6-9 6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner. 7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. 9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me. God may however give us experiences to humble us, if we refuse to be humbled on our own. I am talking about suffering. Pain is hard and yucky, but it is an amazing teacher. It carves out space for more faith, truth, and obedience. You need to study, my friend. Lots and lots of study.

It's called DENIAL!

Today you sound like an atheist. You sound like you have already made up your mind. In your descriptions, I would find myself quite lost. What would my purpose be? What would I then do with the longing in my heart that pushes me to find truth? Why do I long to be special? To know that someone somewhere loves me, knows my name and my struggles, and loves me enough to help me? If there is no such being, I would be in despair. What would then prevent me from ending this life altogether? Why fight to live? Just so someone else can get power and dominate another? Just so mankind can run a muck as slaves to their lusts? What you describe is a place of utter emptiness. Because I feel the emptiness......that tells me something is wrong with the theory.

Why is that idea unlikely to you? Wouldn't it be just as likely that God would interfere and create us in his image? It is likely to me that he would. Tigers beget tigers. Mice beget mice. Humans beget humans. It is very logical to me that a God would beget a reflection of itself. And in nature, most species raise their offspring. If there is a creator, the next step is understanding the nature of that creator. Is it some force that just goes from planet to planet putting life there and then leaving them to destroy themselves? Or is this being a caring parent, guiding and directing his children through human experience to happiness, peace, and maturity? In my mind, it is either one of the two. I can't think of God as someone up there watching for his amusement. (Forgive the pronoun "he". This is the English Language. "it" just doesn't seem right.) What kind of an answer do you expect to get if there is a God? What would that look like to you? What would you need in order to break the tie between trusting and not trusting? What if God whispered in your ear? Would that be enough?

I don't have a believing heart, I am a skeptic at heart, does that make me any less of a child of God? Does God only care about the naive? If God made me, He made me skeptical and all, why hasn't He left anything for His skeptical children? No. It doesn't make you less special. It makes you normal. I have a little girl, eight, who absolutely won't go to the dentist. She has a cavity and needs the dreeded shot. But she just won't believe she'll be ok. My other kids did it just fine. The dentist is REALLY good at doing the shot thing. I have never seen better. My sons said it didn't really hurt that bad. But she is skeptical. Does that make her different? Should I love her less? No. Certainly not. But it does require that I ask more of her. I teach her and plead with her and I am patient with her. Sometimes I must get stern in order to teach her. But truth be told, I can do all of those things, but she will never know that it will be ok if she doesn't go where she doesn't want to go and do it. I think perhaps you are waiting on God. But you may be waiting a long time. Because He may be waiting on you.

This was my LDS Gem today. I thought it was applicable. So I add it to the conversation..... "We must do all that is required in moving forward the work of the Lord in building His kingdom in the earth. We can never compromise the doctrine which has come through revelation, but we can live and work with others, respecting their beliefs and admiring their virtues, joining hands in opposition to the sophistries, the quarrels, the hatred--those perils which have been with man from the beginning." Topic: respect (Gordon B. Hinckley, "The Dawning of a Brighter Day," Ensign, May 2004, 84)

I also wanted to say as part of the earlier conversation, that people who do horrific things in the name of religion, ARE NOT following their conscience! They follow their pride and lust for power and dominion! Believe me, it ain't the good voice talking!! They need the lie or mask of religion to deceive, twist, and control. Never does God ask us to replace another humans ideas above our own. He wants each of us to know independently of anyone else. That is why my husbands testimony won't get me to the line. Even if I follow his every righteous step. It is not enough. Because my responsibility is to get the knowledge for myself. I will also say that it takes a great deal of courage to follow the inner conscience... especially when it conflicts with ones religion .... or ones scientific upbringing! ( you'll have to forgive me this teasing little poke.)

Good Morning DS. I was wondering for the sake of conversation and for the sake of weighing both sides equally, what makes you feel that there may be a God. If you are truly an agnostic, then I am assuming there would be something pulling you from atheism. So, if you were to make a case for God. What would it be.... without doubts added into the equation? We can add those in a minute.