Misshalfway

DS, I dreamt last night that I had all this fabulous stuff to tell you......and then I woke up and couldn't remember any of it. LOL. Oh well. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything.....but doesn't rock band (for the Wii)come out this month? Can't wait to play it. Somebody said it was better than guitar hero. Somebody else said that playing it on the Wii is difficult though because you have to hold the controller too..??? I don't know. I am just a mom trying to make my boys happy! Anyway, I have nothing wonderful to add. Just wanted to stop by and chew the fat. Now I am off. Cya.

I just wanted to add to this that I think the Savior understands every emotion, every hurt, every part of our journey through the pain. I think that is part of his grace and tender mercies to not only help us forgive and move forward, but to heal all the damaged parts of us.

I simply loved this post!

I think I might love wine tasting...... or maybe plan big elaborate weddings for my girls in fun locations. Sometimes I would just like to say a beautifully crafted cuss word without guilt!

How could you possibly be a "bad" lds kid? That doesn't sound like the voice of the Savior speaking to you. That sounds like the adversary. I know, cuz he lays this kinda stuff on me all the time. And I know that sometimes there are tough family situations when a person leaves the family faith. And I know it will be heart breaking in the case of a wedding. Give your concerns to Father in Heaven. Miracles are His specialty. He does move mountains and change water to wine. He can change peoples hearts too. And NO, you are absolutely not disowning them!!! Maybe you feel bad because mormons look ssooooo perfect. Maybe the bar looks soooo high... I don't know exactly what in your perceptions are that could be helping you to feel that you don't measure up, but let me assure you that we are all human. Every last stinking one of us!! Well.......not all of us stink. :) But all of us have such flaws!! Lots you can see.... and even more you can't. Don't let something like that stop you. If you want to talk to the bishop, do that. But talk to him like a friend... someone who can advise you. Not someone who is scanning your soul for micro-sins. Bishops are people too. They are warm and loving most of the time. There are other people you can talk to as well. What about the relief society pres or the ward mission leader. Or even better, the ward mission leaders wife! Or just find a trusted friend who you know has oodles of faith. You said it yourself.... you are living right. So, you know what? Tell Satan to get out of your head and get thee hence! and get to those waters of baptism! Take the leap of faith, and jump in. The water is warm!

Well, the faith-filled answer is pay anyway. Tithing is an issue of faith. God provides manna from heaven when we need it. He WILL take care of anyone who has faith enough to pay. Even folks who seek financial support from the church are required to pay tithing. God WILL make a way for you to obey. Money will come. Resources will come. Faith! Tithing is all about faith!!

Hey Kamper! How are you today? I just want to say that I know what it is like to have those big moments in life. I am glad you are considering the church. It has blessed my life. I think out of any other testimony I could give, that is my sweetest one to share. I wish I could list them all to you.....but then I would be blubbering and tears would spill onto the keyboard.... and then I couldn't type. So, I will spare you. I am sure you will find someone that is easy to talk to. I will add an extra prayer that God will lead you to someone right for you to discuss things with. Much spirit and peace in you searching and questioning. MissH PS. Chocolate forbidden??? Heaven forbid! (as I wipe the chocolate covered corners of my mouth.)

8. Modern prophecy is not hard to accept. Christians often claim to have seen angels, dreams, and visions. But an open canon? Sorry. Gotta add one more thought onto this guy..... Why would God send angels, dreams, and visions, if they weren't sent to deliver his word?

lol!

Nope. But you can salt the oats! Keep praying DS. It is worth it!

I think that this means not to add or take away from the gospel. If the bible wasn't to be changed in Deut., then the whole New Testament would have to go. It is clear to me the Bible is a grouping of lots of different records. When John wrote this there was no compiled Bible that we see and know today. The Nephites had the Books of Moses. In fact, just after leaving Jerusalem, Lehi sent his sons back to jerusalem to get those books. You have to also keep in mind that the BofM is not necessarily a history of these ancient americans. It was written for us today and those early prophets wrote revelations that pertain to the Lord's work in the latter days. They never had the book. It was compiled by Mormon and his son Moroni and buried in the ground. The BofM is not just for mormon people.... it is for the whole earth to testify of Christ.

I must agree with you. I think God very much wants us to know his true nature. John 17:3 "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

I am wondering if anyone has any good or even great advice with how to deal with difficult familial relationships...... primarily relations with the in laws. I am referring to problems that cause deep woundedness and painful distance. I would love to hear in site or scriptures or experiences that have hope attached to them in some way.

I can feel you have good intensions. Thank you for caution. I appreciate that.

I think those people are absolutely genuine. And I wouldn't doubt that God was indeed communicating to them. Perhaps they are assuming that because of the spiritual experience that they have had that they have all the truth..... or all the truth they need. Beyond that one, DS, my answer is -- I don't know. It is a very good question. Had I not had the undeniable experience of knowing God, at least in part, I would probably make the same conclusion.

I am not convinced that everyone who enters religion asks to know the truth. Just recently I was told that asking God wasn't important in discovering truth. I find that answer extremely misleading. But many believe it. I can't know exactly what people pray for and how God answers them. I can't even guarantee that all people pray. I think intermingled with the truth are lots of assumptions. I think that there is much good in this world. There a wonderful churches in the world that do much good. There are some religions and philosophies that are so very enlightened. And some, sadly, have an agenda of oppression and suppression. I think sometimes because the see and feel truth that they make assumptions about the truth of a particular church or philosophy. Some fail to see the error mixed in with the truth. Some don't even know they can ask the question. Perhaps they become satisfied by their segment of the truth. I think there are many that never even ask the question. I also see that culture and family upbringing has much to do with the choices of many. Such social and familial and political pressure! It takes a great deal of courage to seek for truth.... and to withhold ones judgement on the details until God answers. That is one reason why I have such respect for you, DS. Some are kept from the truth because of culture and politics. I taught one Chinese family who told me about the strict laws against having a Bible in your possession. Freedom of religion is a relatively new and western concept. I think in these cases, God gives as much truth as he can amidst these circumstances. I can also talk from my imperfect experience with the Spirit of the Lord. There have been times when I have wanted something to be right or true. So much so that I justified myself in that action or position.....only to learn later that I was mistaken and needed to course correct. I wasn't evil for doing this. I just needed to learn. I needed the experience.... lots of experience with the spirit and testing it... and then learning trust in the Lord and not in the arm of the flesh. God let me be in ignorance for a time. Lots of times on lots of little insignificant issues. And the light comes usually when I desire it first. When I get tired of the ignorance or when I am hungry for more. He also keeps me from truth when I am lazy or sinful or when I can't be trusted with the responsibility. He is strict, the Lord is, about who receives all of his truth. There is much in the way of devotion and loyalty and trustworthiness. God has given me spiritual knowledge...... and has added that I should not share it with others. I have learned that the hard way. But remember also, that he is full of tender mercies. For those who hunger and thirst for truth, He makes a way for them to find it....in this life or the next. The Book of Mormon helps me on this one too. I posted a little of 2 Nephi 29 on another thread earlier today. vs. 7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth

1. Why am I so sure about Jesus, about the Apostle Paul, and about the gospel writers, but so uncertain about Joseph Smith? This is a mystery to me. It seems so logical to me that God calls prophets and gives them revelation to lead the people of their day. The pattern starts with Adam. Noah, Moses, etc. etc. Each had different circumstances... but each were directed by God to give information and direction to the people. Why would he stop calling prophets? Amos 3:7 2. Could the church have really been apostate for 1800 years? I believe that history shows this to be obvious. The church became so political. The early Christains were killed along with the twelve. Yes, the bible writings were preserved. I have to believe that God had a hand in that. I don't believe that God abandoned the people. It is clear that some individuals, martin luther and others, were receiving guidance from God that the church needed reformation or redress. 3. Could the church have gotten so many doctrines so wrong for so long? This doesn't surprise me in the least. The Bible itself was kept from the people. Why? So evil men could control them. I can't know all the reasons. I do know there was confusion. Paul and his companions were running around trying to get the churches to conform. If there wasn't problems with the doctrine, the protestant movements wouldn't have happened. I think they show that mormons are not the only ones to assert that there were discrepancies in doctrines and practices. And today, it impossible to find clear and consistent doctrines in the Christian world... and throughout the world itself. 4. Does a church that, imho, suffers some of the same personality flaws as my own, and many other churches, really stand out as the one that is restored? It stands out, not because it is absolutely flawlessly perfect. It stands out because it has important components that show Jesus himself is at the helm. Priesthood authority, prophets and modern revelation, faith, rep, bap, g of the H.G. It stands out because men don't have to rely on the words of men to know of its truthfulness. It stands out because leaders are neither self appointed, or elected. Neither are they paid. Jesus leads the church not man. 5. Can the Bible really be reconciled with polytheism? I think that God is more like us than not like us. It just doesn't make sense that He wouldn't be to me. I think the Bible can be seen either way. It seems that it is interpreted in so many different ways. Joseph's Smith vision is a tie-breaker for me. It cuts thru the confusion and lays the argument to rest. 6. Are we really eternal essences? I can't see it any other way. I ditto the Jeremiah 1:5. And beyond that, it feels like my spirit already knows this is true. 7. I can understand the ban on drinking, smoking, gambling...but coffee? First of all, coffee and tea can be addictive -- not to mention other health concerns. I have been asked many times in the Dr.'s office if I drink coffee. We are instructed to avoid any substance that would restrict agency. And also, I think you need to look beyond the coffee itself. There is a principle of discipline being taught here. Can the saints discipline themselves to this kind of commandment when the rest of the world doesn't see the need? It is the same as an olympic athelete performing acts of training that an otherwise everyday athelete wouldn't do..... or a monk.... or a priest .... or Ghandi. All chose discipline in their lives. I am not convinced this direction is about the coffee alone. The key is the promises the Lord gives to those who follow. Health and knowledge -- even hidden treasures of knowledge. 8. Modern prophecy is not hard to accept. Christians often claim to have seen angels, dreams, and visions. But an open canon? The Book of Mormon says it best. 3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible. 4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? .... 6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews? 7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? My concern is why some put such limits on God. 9. Is there room in the New Testament writings for an element of faith practice that is so sacred it is kept from outsiders (Temple rituals)? Why wouldn't there be room? If God wants a temple..... then he wants a temple. He has clearly done it before. Temples are absolutely biblical. And for anyone who wants to talk temple detail, I implore you to tread carefully. You speak of things so very sacred and special. 10. Did Jesus really mean for a single, highly structured and hierarchical church organization to dispense spiritual authority (Catholics have no issues with this one)? I believe the Heavenly Father is a God of order. A house divided against itself cannot stand. If God organized this world with all of its laws, why wouldn't the way back to him be organized with laws and ordinances and clarity and surety?

Well, I am not sure God isn't pointing people in the right direction. You married a darling LDS girl. Perhaps that was chance. But what if it wasn't? Were you being led and perhaps didn't know it? And the rest of it, I am not sure any of us has the answers for these questions. Can Satan lead the children of men?.... yes. Does he lead them to anything false? Yes. He will do anything to destroy the agency of man and to corrupt any truth he can. He is called the father of all lies in the scriptures. He is fighting for souls and he is good at what he does. The world is filled with truth, but it is also filled with lies. We are at war so to speak. And Satan will use churches or people or governments or whatever means he can to win. Heavenly Father has assured us that at the end of the day, Satan will not win. But there must be an opposite to all things. And Satan is allowed to weild his sword in order to try the faith of man. It all comes down to the Holy Ghost. It really does. So, no matter what God does do or does not do within our reference, we can know truth. No matter what Satan does, Heavenly Father has given us power to discern his activities. It also comes down to trust. I may not know everything but I do rely on what I do know and leave the rest to God. You know murder is wrong. Somewhere in your spirit you know that. You don't have to question it. But Satan can get people to participate in it and actually think they were justified in their actions.

My thought continued..... (had to pick up a little person at preschool) I think that having experience and learning truth in and thru experience is part of God's many ways of teaching us. He may give us all manner of experience.....in many churches perhaps and many life circumstances to teach us. It is all wisdom in Him. Experience is irreplaceable learning!! Like my c-section. I know it hurt like **** because I lived it. Was God unloving because I experienced pain? What about the prompting in my life, I did NOT heed. Is God unloving because I didn't obey Him? You, DS, may be experiencing what it is like NOT to know in any way about God. Maybe that is your gift of experience from him. It is an experience I will never know. It is knowledge that perhaps one day you will absolutely need........and maybe because of that knowledge you will then be made into a tool in God's hands. (HEY WILLOW! I noticed that you thanked my last post.... and then silly me, I went and edited it. Oh well. I'm a dingle. But I did see that.... and thank you.)

Hello DS. Hope it is ok if I weigh in on this one. I think the primary reason man is here on earth is to enjoy an experience here. An experience with a body....and dealing with everything temporal. Next, we are here to practice choosing. And on a planet like this, there are infinite choices. I think throughout the history of man, (you can see this at least in the Old testament) God has tried to gather his people. "How oft I would have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chicks... and you would not" God has communicated his truth throughout the earth at different times. I don't think we have a full accounting of all of God's activities with our planet. But I do know that he gives truth to those who ask. And I know that he gives it in segments .... pieces according to his wisdom. Somewhere in between the giving of truth and the receiving and obeying of that truth are lots of gray. I think that God allows the gray. And I think he leads the humble to truth.... wherever it be that it can be found.... even in all of its degrees. And I think that he lets man worship according to ones decisions and conscience. I think people choose religion or don't choose religion for a lot of different reasons. I could go on and on with that list. It is not only an issue of truth. It is an issue of what man chooses to do with that truth. He may start a church with it...... or he may start a war. God lets that freedom happen and all the while beacons us back home to him. Also....some just plain don't listen. Anyone who has been a parent knows all about that one.

What are the conflicting statements? Short and sweet. I guess I believe that God is called by different names and understood so differently by the people of the world. But that doesn't stop me from believing that God is over all and understands these differences and that He receives the prayers of the world. I know you are trying to understand how we see God. And it appears that you cannot reconcile our belief with yours. But what stops you from this kind of concession? If I pray and you pray? Doesn't God hear us both? Or does He only hear certain people who wear certain labels? And does he only listen if the petitioner understands him perfectly? If that is so, then wouldn't all Christianity be in trouble, considering God is seen as something man can't comprehend? Not to mention the rest of the planet.

Xan, I am trying to be a humble observer of this conversation but.... I just wanted to jump in here and ask you if there was any possibility that you could believe that we pray to the same God, even though we may understand Him differently?

It is so very hard to forgive someone who has caused us so very much pain. I wonder in my heart if this man has suffered... perhaps privately for what has happened to your son. I can't know. I just think sometime we want to see all the evidence that someone is repenting....and sometimes we aren't given that blessing. I am currently in a situation that is requiring me to forgive. It is taxing and stretching every part of me. The injustice of the situation is searing! And the lack of acknowledgment on the other side is high. I wish for someone to apologize. To recognize the damage.....the long term damage that has been done! And I wish for all the blame and evil speaking to stop. But it doesn't happen the way I want it to and the way I need it to. I find myself praying and pleading for help. And I am learning that I must hand the entire thing to the Lord. I haven't completely forgiven yet. It seems to be a long process. Longer than I want it to be. I know it is only hurting me to hold on this tight to my feelings. I don't know what the magic is. Hopefully Father will lead me and teach me how to forgive at this level. So many lessons for me to learn. So easy to say, "just forgive" and so hard sometimes to get there. I am sorry Strawberry. This must be so horrific and painful and burdensome. I know the answer is forgiveness. But I also know how hard it is to get there sometimes. Much love.

I have to second this! I have been the recipient of much service in my life time. I have learned that anyone can make a dinner and drop it by. But it is so much more of a gift when it is given with something from within. That emotional or personal investment in someone else. The giving of hope or comfort. I think perhaps there is a difference between true giving and doing dutiful actions in order to look compassionate. Sometimes the answer is money..... resources so a person can regain self reliance. But I think that what you refer to here is a higher law and deeper sense of charity. I appreciate you sharing it.

Hello AK! How are you? I think you made perfect sense as well. I so wish that being LDS meant that someone's morality and attitudes were 100% trustworthy. I have similar trust issues that you do. I have accepted now that I must learn to trust myself to make good choices about the men in my life, and learn to trust my instincts and spiritual promptings inside. I think everyone of us has the inner voice that will warn us if there is danger. I suppose the trick is learning to listen and trust when it may not make sense. You can trust yourself to handle unsafe circumstances and trust your instincts to help you make good choices. I was born and raised in the church. 95% of the guys I have dated were LDS. On the balance, I can tell you they are really wonderful men. Most of them respectful and honorable. Most of the men I know and associate with are the same-- living a morally clean and honorable life. Most don't even think about any other way to live. Moral and sexual cleanliness is, in most cases, a no-brainer. I attended BYU and almost every guy I new was trustworthy and good. Not perfect, mind you. But they were striving to live the standards of the church. But that is what makes the gospel of Jesus Christ so very wonderful. We all have that ability to course correct and re-commit ourselves to righteousness. I love the standards of the church. I love that I can go to church and see the boys and men working in their priesthood offices and for the older ones, I can know they have a temple recommend and be comforted by that because that means they are living well. And the more closely you align yourself with the Holy Spirit, the more you will be able to discern the hearts of men.....and women , for that matter. You can look into someone's face and see if the light of Christ is shining. That glowy spirit doesn't happen in people who are not living the standards of the church. You can feel the difference. Just the other day, I had a conversation with one of my neighbors.... and just by walking into their home I felt the power of the righteous man that lived there. It was so warm and safe. And felt that safety coming from my friends husband. So righteous. He didn't need to prove anything to me. I felt his integrity. I can't know anything about your boyfriend. But if he was raised LDS, you can be confident that high sexual and moral standards were taught. You can look at his family and see how they respect women. Our church talks to our men every six months about how women are to be treated. The standards are high. Our young men, each Sunday recite a little statement that reminds them to respect women. I love that they are taught so young about the preciousness of the women around them. And they are taught that self control is the mark of real manhood. Good luck with your relationship. I hope you will look further into the church. It is a beautiful religion..... and what makes it even better -- it is true!! All my love, MissH