Misshalfway

Parts of this thread make me a little sad. I know that not everyone who speaks in church is the best orator or the most insightful or entertaining speaker. But, there are miracles that happen when the weak things of the world preach the gospel. I think that what we get out of our meetings is generally a reflection of what we put in. I think that we need as much exposure...even repetitive exposure to the conference talks as we can. Yes, we can all read and study the Ensign. But I can't deny that many of my prayers and spiritual needs have been addressed by the talks in sac meeting.

OHHH History! I thought we were talking about truth! Ha ha. Kona, you bet I would pray, especially if I were searching to know spiritual truth. If the events of WW2 had some influence or concern in my quest, you better believe I would take my questions to the Lord. I pray to Him about everything else.....even how to decorate my house or even to thank him for making my kids so dang cute! Just pray, Kona. Don't lean on the arm of the flesh when it is truth from God that you need.

You prolly won't be convinced by us or by that website. You need to take the question to the Lord. His answers have such power to cut thru all confusion and opinion. You can know the truth about this issue just as certainly as anything else. I think it is wise to question. This church welcomes questions. This whole church started because a boy asked a question! Go Kona, and ask in faith.

Well, this is a good question. Reading the BofM is certainly a first and fundamental step. But ones investigations certainly shouldn't end there. There is more to the restoration one needs to understand. That further study, in my view, should help one determine which among mormon "groups" is right. You said that you didn't want to talk about divine guidance. Frankly, I don't know how to answer your question without referring to that. The BofM....and the rest of the scriptures convert people BECAUSE of the Spirit of the Lord that confirms and teaches the written word.

I went to this site! It is wonderful. Thank you! So informative!

You are right to a point. Yes Cain was cursed. Yes, that fact is taught and discussed. But to say that because of this the church is racist or was racist just isn't truly understanding what the church is all about. Has there been ignorance among the members? Yes. Has the entire globe needed to learn acceptance and tolerance? Yes. I think Kona that you are stating facts.....but missing the context.

OH Sweetie! You have woundedness! These concerns are real and big and those flashbacks can be so very disabling at times. I understand how it feels to be seemingly dismissed by a priesthood leader whom you feel you need. I have had similar experience. Look. Your healing is absolutely possible! It is what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about! And I am with Willow. There are people who know. Professionals who can help you overcome the trauma and help you move to a place of restoration and wholeness. I go to a therapist to help me with my own trauma. She speaks with God by her side, I sware! I ask God to give her anything she wants cuz she has blessed my life so much! There are people there for you too. I don't know where you are or what your resources are....but the RS pres or Bishop can give you phone numbers or even help with payment if your insurance is buggy. Just remember that God doesn't speak with a voice of fear. Those feelings always come from the adversary. You can find healing. It is there ready and waiting for you to walk to it and partake. Going to church can be part of that healing process. People at church won't be perfect. Let them have their imperfection. I have mine , no matter how I try to change it. They may not meet your needs. They may reject. But you can look within yourself to find strength and friendship. You are you own best ally. In my own journey, I think sometimes Heavenly Father purposely kept people from getting involved with my problems so that I could learn about my own inner strength. And once you tap into that beauty and strength within -- no one can take that from you! Not some jerk in a summer house....not some boyfriend who didn't have a clue....and not a bishop who doesn't know what to do! Christ knows what you need. He loves you! And He will be there every step of the way. Life doesn't happen to us....it happens FOR us! These painful experiences are opportunities in disguise. Embrace the possibilities of what they have to teach you. I wonder why you are feeling to come back to church. Perhaps Father is inviting you. Trust that invitation. There is something on the other side of it waiting to bless your life! I wonder if you went to church and blocked out all the people. Just go to find the Lord -- the one who knows you so personally and knows all about suffering, even your suffering! Just go because your heart wants to obey and trust. And tell Satan to GET THEE HENCE! Don't let him make you afraid anymore! I am sending my love and strength to you. You can and will move thru these feelings to a place of healing and wholeness. Only when you get there, you will have such treasures inside of you! ....treasures you couldn't obtain any other way. Hugs. MH

I think the hardest thing about being LDS and single is the societal pressure. I didn't get married until late in my 20's and I was sure everyone thought I was a hopeless case. My father was so grateful someone would take me! Looking back, I so wish that all the pressure wasn't there. It would have made dating easier and a lot less pressured. It would have freed me up to make better choices and abandon the feelings of desperation that crept in as I saw all of my friends marry and have a baby....and then another...and another. :) If I were to do it all over again, I am sure I would love to take the wisdom I have today and transplant it back into my old self. I can tell you, I wouldn't have kissed this one guy....and that other one never have gotten a second date....and there might of been a few others that would have deserved a swift kick in the batooshka!! Beyond that, I would have enjoyed myself more. I would have celebrated my solitude and looked beyond the confines of marriage for fulfilling and fun relationships.

Mine looks the same as others: God Spouse Children Church Job For me, my relationship with God contains all my obedience and devotion and faith. My relationship with the church I feel is different. That usually means my participation in callings and activities. I will and do participate but only after my obligations to spouse and children are met. And if my family has a need, that trumps my church duties.

What a journey you have been on. I am truly sorry to you and especially to you sweetheart. Her heart sounds literally devastated. I know I would be. I have to ditto the comments of MorningStar and others. Treating her feelings like mourning.....she will most likely have to mourn the life she thought she had and the husband she thought she had too. I think that giving her the talks about forgiveness makes it seem like you are seeking your own comfort over hers. If you truly need her forgiveness to feel better....perhaps consider letting her off the hook on that one. It will come.....but only in time and you don't get to decide when that is. Get your comfort from forgiving yourself. Try to feel and empathize with what she may be feeling. Allow her the space to feel whatever it is she needs to .... even when it seems random and hard. Validate. Listen to her pain....the pain you put there. Acknowledge your responsibility and help her carry the burden that she most surely didn't choose to bare. Be honest and transparent in your activities. Her fears my strike her at any time. It helps to see that you understand the nature of what you have created inside of her.....and it helps if she can see your dedicated and consistent and careful obedience. You sound like a humble individual. I am glad that you have fought your way thru your pride. So many blame their spouses. So many fail to take responsibility. I am so very glad to see a man stand up and face it head on! You have my respect --- and my empathy. I am sure you are leaning on the Lord. Healing can come to both of you. He won't spare you the consequences of your actions. But He will extend merciful and tender blessings to you both as you seek Him. My heart is with both of you.

What are your concerns. Lay them out here with us. No fear. All of us have concerns.....or at least most of us at one time or another. :) Or if that doesn't work for you, Perhaps you could call the RS pres....or just some older person in the ward that looks warm and wise. But realize too, that you don't need to resolve your concerns before you go. You may be surprised how the speakers that day miraculously talked about one of your needs. (That happens to me all the time. Especially on days when I really don't want to go....Satan knows when to pour on the heat to keep me from my blessings!) If you don't have any real misdeeds to clear up, then just jump in. You can't start swimming on the shore. You gotta get wet! You CAN do this! And you are not alone! We are all around you! See us....we are all hear waving! The adversary wants you to feel alone.....he is good at that lie. But that is all it is....a BFL! (big fat lie!) So call his bluff and go to the meeting. Introduce yourself to the bish or to the RS pres. They will prolly fall all over themselves as they try to welcome you. I know I would if I were there! And if they don't....then maybe you just need to fight your way in. Sign up to bring someone a dinner....or call the compassionate service leader and see who needs a friend. Ask to be a visiting teacher. The best VTers aren't the perfect looking ones. They are the ones who get in there....imperfections and all....and love someone else. How hard is that for a person as warm and wonderful as you? You may be surprised how many answers will come as you extend your faith to help others. I know how you feel......more than I can express here. I hope you will continue to share your experiences with us! Let us know how it goes! We would love to cheer you on!

Well, I am so profoundly sorry that you are finding yourself in this kind of circumstance. It sounds like to me that your H is really living a double life. He has mastered the lying and deception. He has learned how to get his selfish needs met. I suppose now he has sown his wild oats and now he may have to reap the whirlwind. I am glad that you have a supportive and responsive bishop. That is a tremendous boon. I hope more than anything that you can take steps to protect yourself from this kind of treatment. I don't know what kind of headspace your husband is in.....is he ready to get honest--completely honest about his activities? If it were me, I would need full disclosure and some real and sincere contrition before I would consider reconciliation. But....that is just me. It seems like to me that you are only starting to find out the nature and extent to his activities. It is difficult to trust someone who will only fess up when he is cornered. I hope that he will become ready to clean up his life and alter his course drastically. If he does have a porn problem....and if that is the origin of his extra-maritial activities....you may need to seek some outside professional help to bring about the needed change. I am glad you are feeling peace and the support from the Lord. Keep us posted. Sounds like to me that you are doing all the right things. You are a strong one!! It is easy to see and feel your humility and strength.

It seems to me that you are equating "true" with "perfect." Any church on earth and administered by the human WILL be flawed. Their are essentials that are true. The truth doesn't lay in the behaviors of the individuals. The truth lies in the doctrine...in the existence of God the Father and his perfect son Jesus Christ and His gospel. God chooses trustworthy individuals to administer.....not perfect ones. I think that perhaps you are expecting that a true church, or in our definition, a church led by Jesus Christ, would never change. And if it did, or its policies did, then it would automatically nullify itself. Well, if that were the case, then the entire Christian world would be in trouble. Because nothing describes the history of Christianity more than change itself. The greater question is do God's policies with the children of men change? He doesn't change....his nature, etc. But do his commands? His expectations? Let's look at the Israelites. He would have given them the higher law....but no. He gave them a lower law because it was expedient for them. Then, let's look at the coming of Christ. He came and "changed" or fulfilled the law. He changed tradition and practice and dogma of the time. And was convicted and put to death because he did. Does that make Jesus or God the Father wrong? NO! What about Abraham being asked to kill Isaac? Against the law? YOU BET? Sinful? Absolutely not! Obedience. That is what was asked of Abraham. What of the rest of us? What is required is obedience......even when the Lord asks us to do things that go against logic, or culture, or the popular/traditional ideas of the time. If you look to the scriptures for perfection.....you will be disappointed as well. They are documents and translations, and they have proven to inspired multiple interpretations. They are tools to help us find truth. They are layered and have the power to influence to soul. They hold the words of God. But they do not trump God. God speaks thru them. God gives them to man.....and trusts man in his imperfection, to use them properly. Sometime man messes up. That doesn't nullify the scriptures or God or the power of the word. Ok. Now. I want to address the subject of blacks and the priesthood. It is often inferred that because the priesthood was not given to every man until 1978, that the church hates and oppresses black people or any person of color. I think that it is this inference that I object to most. We don't deny the writings of the scriptures where God has punished his children. But we do reject the notion that the 1978 decision was made because of political pressure and that is was given to somehow undo a great wrong committed against black people. Why should the church apologize if what they did and when they did it was the will of God? I don't see the hatred you all claim we have. In fact, I see many actions by the church leaders that show the opposite of what is being charged here. That is not to say that I close my eyes to the failings of some members of my church and their ignorance and prejudice. The question isn't really about blacks and the priesthood. It is about the very nature of revelation and the communication of God to his chosen servants. God has at many times given decree that wasn't popular or that didn't include every single child on the planet. I don't know why He does what He does. I can't presume to know the mind of God beyond what He has revealed. But I do know that when the Lord commands, I must obey. Just because his will is not our will does not make the church a place of hatred and degradation. Sometimes, as a parent, I say "no" to my children. Sometimes I say "wait". God is no different. I don't always understand what God does. He moves in mysterious ways. But, I don't automatically assume the worst because God reveals something that doesn't exactly make sense to His children. There is no doubt in my mind that humans need to treat one another better. We have found every way under the sun to hate and oppress and destroy one another. We need to evolve. Many of our institutions and groups are better than ever before. Now is a wonderful time where people of all colors can learn to come together in obedience to the Lord and in friendship and equity with each other. If a person is looking into ANY religion, they will find discrepancy and human weakness. That is why one needs to get their information from God himself thru the Spirit of the Lord. And when one is in the posture of doing that, they can ask God why the priesthood was not given to all men from the beginning of time!

First of all, I know all about doubt! It is cloudy and merky stuff that really makes faith slip and slide. Look, there isn't a one of us here on this planet that can prove the things of God. God has revealed some of His knowledge and wisdom for us here. Sometimes faith and science align....sometimes they don't seem to. In the cases of the later....I choose to believe that perhaps I am not understanding God fully.....and that perhaps neither does the rest of the establishment. For me, I don't see a problem with evolution and creation. I don't always think science draws the correct conclusions from the documented observations. As for the six days thing, I am comforted because God's time is not our time. I think six days is really six creative periods. And you know, after all is said and done, it doesn't really matter what science proves or what it doesn't prove. Keep your eye on the reasons you are here on earth. This entire experience is a test of faith. And with all tests of this nature, the answers will not always be given until the time is right.....and for some of our answers, we won't know til we get on the other side. It is like my son...always asking 'why'. And I say, 'because I say so' or 'wait until you are older.' This is what walking on water is all about. Believing even when every logic says it can't be done. The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Believing in truth.....even when it is not popular or evidenced.....is STILL believing in truth. I am going to say this as welll...... Go read more of your scriptures.... especially the Pearl. I think the more you learn about God and His plan for man, the more science won't be able to sway you.

Love it PC! I love the idea of keeping a prayer in your heart. Sometimes, I talk to God thru-out the whole day! PS. I think there could be one scenerio when one could pray too much. I think that could happen if a person loses their balance and becomes somewhat overzealous. Father urges us to not run faster than we have strength. I think it is important not to become so straight that we are crooked. ---hope you can understand the point I am trying to make.

I thought this was an interesting question. I think the answer to your initial question is dependent upon the person praying. But I think that the power of prayer has less to do with what we pray for....and more upon how. Father will listen to the simplest and the most imperfect of prayers, but he won't command in all things. He expects us to bring about much righteousness of our own free will and choice. As he refines us and moves us to higher planes of righteous living, I think our prayers change....deepen....perhaps in content as well as repentant searchings. One of my favorite movies of all time is Shadowlands. It is a profile of the life of CS Lewis. At one point in the movie at a moment of deep despair he says, "Praying doesn't change God, praying changes me." I really liked that. I think that that searching and stretching as we discuss all of the dimensions of our lives with Father and listen to his commands, counsel, and doctrines. I think as latter-day saints we sometimes fail to understand the power of such a simple act as prayer. I think that the world would be a better place if everyone prayed in faith and humility. I think that God WOULD bless this world with more help, guidance, comfort, and answers.

I love this thread! Prolly cuz I love the BofM!!! I remember the early days, when I was first discovering the richness of the words. YUMMY! You should see my first quad.....literally worn out with cover hanging by a thread! This book has literally made more difference to my life that anything else. It has helped me love the Bible and understand it in richer, more meaningful ways. It has helped me with my inner and constant efforts with my character, as well as understanding the nature of men and things. And more than anything, it has been the avenue with which Father has answered my most sincerest of prayers. Those words are so powerful! And those people! How real they all are to me. Nephi sometimes says the very words in my heart. 2 Nephi 4, for example. And how can you not love Mormon and Moroni as you realize what a profound gift they sacrificed so much to give to us today? Anyway, I am going on and on.....and I could for days! :) Forgive me.

Awesome! This was my favorite post all day!!

What makes a person wicked? Green skin

Hello Jonathon! I am impressed by your story. Impressed that you would search so long and so hard.... It takes a lot of faith and deep questioning to follow such a path. That alone is admirable. I don't know exactly what is drawing you back, but I am glad! Perhaps there was great purpose in the road and experiences you have traveled. God most certainly will use your wisdom in some beautiful way. I think each person that returns is met with an openness and a desire to meet their personal needs. If you are indeed ready to return, your local bishop is the first you should contact. And he will work with you to determine what your needs are.....spiritual and otherwise. There are lots of different scenerios. Perhaps the discussions could come again.....maybe by some local missionaries or home teachers. I will agree with the others above, that the most important thing you could do now is add the BofM to your daily schedule. If you don't already pray, then add that too. And just start going to church. Remember, church is a place for everyone! It is a hospital not a country club. Everyone is welcome....no matter what!!! Even if you come in blue jeans...... This conference was particularly good. I was amazed at how many talks addressed the many threads and discussions on this very board. I felt such clarity and peace and renewed testimony and commitment in my heart. I for one, would love to learn about your journey....if you feel so inclined to share. And I would love to hear about what feelings are leading you back to this church. You are welcome to PM me anytime. Looking forward to getting to know you..... All the best, MH PS. ex19, I would love to hear more about your story too!

Wow. This sounds like tremendous news! Hope all is well from this point on.

Shave the dang thing! And don't worry about it. If you are thinning, don't you think a clean shave looks better than a comb-over??

Last time I checked, choosing a ward was not really the process. Perhaps you have not purchased your home yet. In that case, the stake or even regional leaders could help direct you.

Why couldn't you talk to the stake YW leaders? Couldn't one of them attend if this rule is so stringent......which sounds weird to me. Anyone should be able to chaperone. Is this your bishops rule or recommendation? And who is telling you that you can't go with them? Just too funky.

Howdy ho! And welcome.