Misshalfway

Why?

These conversations have and do go on and on......... We can go back and forth, who is right or who is wrong, or what this guy said vs. the other guy with lots of letters after his name. In the end, all these questions can be settled with the simplest of pleasures......a prayer.

My understanding is that God was once like the Savior.....not like us. We can become like him, but not without help. Christ didn't need any help.

This is what I have always thought about this issue. The church wants everyone to really be a part of a ward with mixed demographic. I think the creation of the "singles ward" was an attempt to meet the needs of a certain age range, but then after they mature to a certain point to bring them back to the main .

I hope no one gets confused by your first statements. I think that this is a concept that is easily misinterpreted.

I don't use the Smithsonian to determine spiritual truth. God has the power to transmit and confirm truth to man. He doesn't need all the varied evidences of the earth to prove himself to man. The Spirit of the Lord is His proven means of communication. Something more reliable than any earthy proof. And just for the sake of argument, we are very lucky to live in a time when archeological and other technologies have allowed us to understand things better. But we are a very select and lucky group compared with all of God children who have lived on the earth. How did God teach the earliest of us? With archeological evidence and endless commentary from scholars? It certainly wasn't how the Lord himself taught the people and convinced them of truth. I find this a humorous argument. Like the Bible has been available for all mankind thruout all time. And to answer your question, the BofM wasn't even available for the people who wrote it. It was a compilation of writings authored by different prophets over a span of many years. Many writings were copied from larger, more extensive records by a prophet named Mormon.....thus the name of the book. It was hidden and kept sacred by commandment of God to be revealed only by commandment. It was God who determined that the Book needed to come in this time. It was part of the restoration of the gospel in its fulness to the earth today ( a topic for another day.). It is meant to confirm the bible and to testify that Jesus is indeed the Christ and to give a detailed account of more of the Lord's interactions with the people of this earth. It is meant to test the faith of the people today. Have you ever actually read the book....or even just the preface pages? They are very informative and descriptive concerning the origins and purpose for its existence.

With regards to the large species question:)....... I just wanted to add that while we believe that God is our literal spiritual father and that we can become like him and receive an inheritance of exaltation which includes eternal progression..... that we will not become equal to or replace God the Father in anyway...or Jesus Christ, his son. While we can progress and become like him, it is only through the Atonement that such is possible and we will never become Saviors. I hope that helps to take the sting...at least in part.....of the LARGEST issue on this thread! :)

LOL!! And I thank you for your good humor. I wish that I could agree with you here. It just hasn't been my experience or hold true to observation. It is as you are saying that everyone else, except the LDS church, reads and interprets the Bible the same. The divisions of the Protestants and the Catholics is one, the Muslims and Jews are another (OT of course). And that is just a high level/very basic observation. It seems within the protestant world has come to some kind of consensus. I personally find the methods used to come together suspect. I will reference the nicean creed. It seems to be the ideas of man....agreed upon by man....and published by man. Even though, I know some can't accept the story of Joseph Smith. At the very least, he does say that his source is God himself. And his account does sound very similar to the account of at least Stephen. And all the different philosophies within Christiandom.....well, frankly they seem so incredibly contradictory. I see so much in the way of argument. I see that their still are very different views. And sometimes, I wonder if I see certain aspects of the gospel omitted because they are not popular and because they either divide people or scare people away. I am glad to hear you put it like this. This is what I want to believe about most Christians. I am surprised however when I hear that listening to the Spirit or feelings within about right and wrong are rejected over the printed word. It seems to me that some kind of feeling must be important to at least accept the book and the Savior. I am surprised frankly about the amount of criticism the LDS church gets for relying on personal revelation to determine truth. I hope that we are all closer on this issue than maybe we understand about each other.

I am glad that we have such accuracy to rely on in our modern day. Especially with the availability of learning and information for the masses. I worry though, when I hear that the bible is to be the only authority. As if it would trump God himself. Forgive my frankness. I appreciate understanding what we do today. But there have been many believers throughout centuries that did not have the benefit of the bible. And if they did, I would imagine that it would have been a very select few that could really understand them -- because of educational opportunity and literacy and then having it or NOT in their language. I just can't believe that God would place the importance of the bible above other things. Yes, it is vital. Yes, it is a tremendous boon. But it doesn't make or break salvation. And God is so very merciful to those who did not have this blessing. I am speaking of all the children born into this world, thru all time. And then even the most correct version doesn't stop the seemingly infinite interpretations of the text. There is in all of my limited ability to assess, much in the way of confusion that comes from the reading of the bible alone.

This is something that surprises me as well. The idea of a pre-earth life make so much sense to my mind and my spirit. It seems so simple to me. Yes Jesus is eternal and existed before the creation of the earth. The only difference is that we are eternal beings as well and existed with Him in that premortal realm. I see that Jesus was spirit, was born of the flesh the same way we were. He didn't just appear to the world as flesh for our sakes. He was actually born and his mother gave him the attributes of human-ness while his father gave him the attributes of deity. He lived and was killed. His body was then resurrected. All flesh and bone restored. The tomb was empty! And he appeared to the apostles and spent days with them as a resurrected being and instructed them to testify of the things they saw. He didn't come to them as a spirit being and ask them to testify of that state of being. There are eternal processes by which spirit is organized and by which flesh is organized. Jesus had to follow those laws just like we do. It is not some mystical power that gives God his abilities. It is obedience to eternal law. Obedience is the first law of heaven.

Thank you for this study. The bible is absolutely wonderful. But it is so good to have a balanced understanding of what the Bible is....and what it is not.

I think that you have to evaluate ALL the commandments of God. I am afraid that this group took one idea and ran with it at the expense of some core fundamentals.

I honestly can't decide. As a freshman, I would have died without help. My father paid for school but I was required to pay for my rent and food, etc. My scholarship (little one) helped with books for the first year. I want to teach my children that not everything in this world will be given to them on a silver platter. I hope that we are in a financial position to help. But I also want them to cherish their education and take adulthood seriously.....as they transition from my responsibility to their own. I saw my weathier friends make horrid choices and they were bailed out by their parents. It didn't seem to make a difference. They would just keep making bad choices. Guess I want to raise the bar with my own kids. I like that Dave Ramsey guy. I like what he has to say about teaching kids about money. He starts them earning their own money and saving it for college really early.

So much of what we receive from Father in terms of light and knowledge comes after we first desire it. I think Father allows all of these choices and allows men to choose what level of light they are satisfied. In the end, it would only be the power of God that could discern the hearts of the children of men. I think their is a lot of wiggle room between being exalted and being condemned. We will be judged according to the light we accepted and the opportunities with which we were able to receive it. This is why humility is an important element. Faith must be tempered with the willingness to put the will of God first. Again, another plug for the H.G. because it is thru this medium that the Father makes his will known to the individual -- even beyond the calling of prophets and the publishing of His words. I know when I am doing my own will. I feel it. I feel when I am departing from the will of God. Sometimes I feel the warning before I act. Other times I recognize it when I have taken steps in a certain direction. But, if I commit my life and my attitude to NOT relying on the arm of the flesh, I find the help and influence I need to choose a path for myself. I am not perfect..... thank goodness for the grace and patience of God as he works with me until I learn all my lessons. You make faith seem like something weak.....like something easy. Try walking on water sometime! It takes work...and discipline and humility to fight the doubt. It takes lots of work to nourish and maintain faith. It must be nurtured with study and understanding and wisdom and experience. Faith is not blind. The fruit of faith is light and knowledge and surety. But one must walk into the dark and believe there is light even though all the earthy senses say there is only darkness. IMHO, it is easy to stay to the known. It is like staying on the dry ground while others swim. You can't know that you can swim until you get in!!!

You guys are funny! I wish someone had warned me about student loans. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better to quit school for a time ( which my father frowned upon) and earn the money rather than to take out the loan and suffer with payments for all those years!! Here's a question: Do you guys feel it is the responsibility of the parents to pay for college? Or should the responsibility be given to the child? Shared responsibility? Or should the parents get the kids started, and then hand them the reigns?

I used lemon juice on my shower door. Somebody told me it did wonders on the soap scum. I couldn't really tell a difference. And I just hate the smell of vinegar. But, I do use baking soda on stuff. Did you know you can even brush your teeth with it??? But, I would love to go green. I think about it all the time....whether global warming is real or not!

I agree being rich is relative. Perhaps being truly rich is living within your means. It certainly is freedom and can open the doors to more wealth. I am very interested in this subject as well. I really want to make my kids aware of these principles. My parents never really talked to me about money. I just thought it was always there....and that my parents would either give me some of it ...or they wouldn't. Then I got to college and learned all about blowing my overdraft! Yikes. So wish they would have taught me more about saving than spending.

I may have found this thread a little too late, Nick. If you are still peeking in, I am LDS and wanted to add a note or two. I just wanted to add that the quest for truth isn't always easy....but absolutely possible. God works line upon line and precept upon precept. Milk before meat, so to speak. Don't be afraid! Afraid that someone or something will deceive you. You might make mistakes along your road, just like the rest of us, but be believing. The Spirit of the Lord IS sure. It testifies of truth. That is the number one job of the Spirit. It will teach you the truth of all things and bring things to your mind. It will teach your mind and your heart. It will teach you how things really are and how they really will be. It will tell you and show you, even inside of mistakes! It can't lead you astray. As you make your life a place where the Holy Ghost can dwell (obedience, cleanliness, right living, etc), you will feel it more and become more able to identify its influence in your life. Don't be afraid to investigate and ask questions. But add patience to your heart-- as the speed and order of those answers are in the Lord's hands to give in His wisdom. My advice is go to where you are led. Follow those promptings. Trust them. If that means visiting a church or a grove. God knows what you need and how you need it presented to you. Your job is to trust and take His hand. These experiences will grow up in you and help you create a sure foundation for you to discern truth and will make your life what He wants your life to be -- whatever and however it comes to you. I just wanted to say something about Heavenly Father. He is just and all powerful. He is to be respected, but don't fear Him. There is an adversary. And he loves to tell lies about the nature and personality of God. God is literally your father. He knows you better than you know yourself and loves you will a love that we humans cannot understand yet. He knows the purpose of your life and wants to bless you. But, He will do so as a perfect parent. He will bless you when you obey, and help you when you need IF you have faith. His laws are firm and eternal.....and He won't bend them because of popular opinion or selfish desire. Open your heart to the love and wisdom and peace of Father in Heaven. He is there FOR you. He is not against you. He IS against sin. So, when there is sin inside of us, he will invite us away from it. And if we won't because of pride, He will allow the consequences of such choices even if it hurts us. Pain is an amazingly powerful teacher. If not even a hair off our heads will escape the notice of God, surely not one of your feelings or needs or desires or worth will be missed by Him either. Keep reading that BofM!! Read it with faith and real intent. You want to believe. Let that belief work in you. Your experience with Father in Heaven and His scriptures can be an amazing place for personal revelation. Again, be patient and believe. Your answers will come. Generally, answers don't come until after the trial of faith. Learn about real intent. Know what that means and understand how to apply it. Sending my love and support to you in your search. Best wishes. MH

You have so much courage!! Hugs to you. I will be thinking of you.

My father was raised on a farm and he felt that D and H weren't swear words at all. They were "farm words" he used to say. Having said that, I only heard him swear once and that was when my brother drove the bronco into the garage!!!

I agree that the issue isn't really polygamy. But it alarms me that the state didn't get their evidence together before they made the raid. And I do feel so very badly for the children. The system thinks that it is protecting those children....but they must all be so traumatized by the whole affair. I guess that they did see evidence that youthful teens were pregnant. Awful! But not until after they went in. Maybe they have to raid. Maybe Texas didn't have a choice. I dunnno! It is so difficult for me to assess what is really going on down there. I don't agree with the FLDS and their lifestyle. If they in fact are doing what they are accused of, then they should be prosecuted. Not sure I agree with how they are dealing with all the children....mother's not being able to nurse their babies....AWFUL! Sticky mess? You bet it is.

Sorry. I didn't see this quote before I posted. I appreciate it. I am not sure I understand it fully. I have never read this before. And never have been taught that I ever could stand in to bless my children. I have thought about it before, when I have been alone and without anyone else around. Like when my 3 month old was in the ER getting a spinal tap. I guess I wonder about the circumstances. What about when the Husband is not worthy to act on the priesthood he holds or is under disciplinary action? What circumstances is this really ok? Isn't it ok ONLY if no other priesthood leaders can be found? And are you sure about the oxen thing....I thought for sure she had blessed the oxen. I think they even put a little reference to it in one of the movies at the Joseph Smith Memorial building.

I can't really feel good about affiliating with any political party either. I feel at a loss sometimes, because it is harder to participate fully in the political system if you don't affiliate. I have been really watching the process of this presidential campaign like no other time in my life. I have become very dissolutioned with the whole thing. I can't see how an accurate vote can be taken in the primaries alone. And with the super delegate thing, I suppose one could buy the presidency. I live in Utah. And sometimes I feel like my vote doesn't matter much anyway. The state will go Republican. I think the world knows this. I wish that there was a more equitable way of choosing a president. Which then reminds me of campaign/election reform..... don't get me started.

It seems to me in the course of my life I have heard of stories where perhaps a mother was in a car wreck and was stranded and blessed her injured children using the husbands priesthood. I am sure I have heard two or three other such stories. I have no idea where to search for them. I guess the question is whether or not this practice is authorized of the Lord.....and if so, under what circumstances would it be a righteous act. Does anyone know of any printed authoritative commentary on this question?

Let's talk about that evidence you need then. I would imagine if you were going to discover something you would first go to those scholars or respected scientists to study their findings. Right? You would probably look to them as authority figures rather than running around duplicating every experiment and study yourself. Correct? The scriptures are the same thing. The patterns and methods are in there along with lots of others who substantiate the experiences of each other. And then you have people in the world who you trust...right? People you look up to as moral or trustworthy individuals. Correct? Nothing replaces personal experience when it comes to the Spirit. But I see the evidence, at least preliminary evidence you need to at least see that there is perhaps merit to the testimonies given. Or are all of these unreliable witnesses?