White guys and religion.

[Fiannan]

With all the fuss over a certain pastor and his claims about Jesus being a black guy persecuted by white Italians I got to thinking, which religions are actually not founded by white guys in the world? I mean, Jesus was most definently white and probably resembled the typical Ashkenazi Jew of today. David and Esau were described as red headed and Mohammed said Jesus fit that description as well -- and if Mohammed, who is often described as reddish (could mean extremely pale skin as in ruddy or red hair) then he would then be a white guy as well. Then you have Buddha who was from the ruling clan of an indo-European people governing India so he would be white -- in China people might be surprised when they see centuries-old murals and statues where Buddha is always shown with blue eyes.

Just thought this was interesting now that race and religion is a big topic this year in the elections. My goal isn't to say a certain color is special but it is rather interesting in my opinion. Also, I have heard some radical feminists say that feminists should not be members of any religion that was formed by a man at all and regardless of the race issue I guess that wouldn't leave very many alternatives (at least regarding the major religions).

Any thoughts?

[DigitalShadow]

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Whether Jesus was black white or purple, only his teachings should matter and anyone who cares about his ethnicity has their own agenda which ironically is probably not very Christian. In any case, in another few thousand years we'll all be brown at this rate anyway, so why do people care so much?

I'm also curious where you got this information about Buddha. None of it is supported by the wikipedia page where you can see many depictions of Buddha, none with blue eyes. Not that wikipedia is the end-all source of information, but I am understandably skeptical of your claim.

[DigitalShadow]

Just to be clear, I was genuinely curious where you got the information, not being sarcastic. I did find this under a seperate article about his physical characteristics:

The Buddha had an elongated, lengthy body with long appendices (long arms with a span equal to body length, long fingers, long hands, elongated face, protruding and well-formed nose).

His hair was fine, black and with soft curls.

His eyes were wide, and strongly blue or bluish.[citation needed]

His body was golden-colored

I think there may be some contraversy over the subject from the [citation needed] tag.

[Redbeard]

And just to get specific, he wasn't white like a european, but more likely olive skined like the rest of the people in the area... More of a middle eastern kinda guy.

[Fiannan]

The Aryans The mountains in the north-west is the primitive home of the Aryans, who migrated into the Punjab. Bands of these immigrants penetrated into the Punjab through the Himalyan passes. Being fresh from a cold northern country, they were very fair in color and called themselves Arya, meaning honourable. They bore the closest relation to the inhabitants of Iran and had a very similar language. Their first conquisition was the Punjab, and the period of when they invaded is uncertain, but is generally accepted they came some 2500 years ago, about 1500 B.C. ...

Features and Language The Aryans of the Punjab bear a close resemblance to their brothers of the West with their straight noses and finely-chiselled features. They once spoke Sanskrit in its rude form, and also speak in a language common to Greek, Germanic, and Celtic languages. Even today, if one looks at the various Indian languages, one will find words common to many of the Western languages.

Punjab Online: History of Punjab

In remote areas of westerm China as well as much of Iran, Afghanistan, and even Pakistan you can find people with light skin and blue or green eyes. Of course, over time empires bring in many peoples and since light features are recessive they tend to disappear -- only occasionally surfacing in children. A friend of mine from Afghanistan has a grandmother who was extremely pale with blue eyes and red hair -- of course the racial history of much of Afghanistan is unclear as the dominant tribe may actually be descendants of Hebrews.

The upper classes of India, Pakistan and even Bangladesh share more genes with Europe than they do with people in the south of India. From what I understand the caste system was an attempt to separate the races so it would be logical that if Buddha had blue eyes he probably looked like someone who would pass anyone's definition of a white person if he were alive today.

[Moksha]

Jesus was most definently white and probably resembled the typical Ashkenazi Jew of today.

The Jews who developed from over thousand years contact with Nordic, Germanic and Rus people, with obvious interbreeding? Why of course Jesus would fall into that group. :lol:

We always want to make God in our own image.

[Maya]

IMHO why god is white.. He is so shiny only colorwhite can describe his color.

[DigitalShadow]

IMHO why god is white.. He is so shiny only colorwhite can describe his color.

In that case, I imagine Jesus would have been albino.

[prisonchaplain]

Jesus was most definently white and probably resembled the typical Ashkenazi Jew of today.

Any thoughts?

Yeah. IMHO, Jesus was olive skinned. Some even think he was black.

BBC NEWS | Magazine | So what colour was Jesus?

[Islander]

The problem with genetics is that we are left with a bag full of conjecture and theory as to bio-type for early Semites. If they were desert dwellers, as we suspect, it is a fairly good assumption that they were darker than the typical Europeans. The diaspora Jews that later returned to Palestine had been intermarrying for 2000 years thus the physical differences. There are also Jews in north Africa, Turkey, Egypt and even Persia. And they do not look very European.

Beyond that, it does not matter what color Jesus was. God is in charge and he does whatever he sees fit as to the work that needs to be done and by whom. FYI, there were black roman soldiers and commanders in the legions and even at the head of the empire. Skin color in the ancient world did not have the connotation and social divide it currently carries.

Revisionism is the name of the game.

[siouxz72]

I'm with Mailis... Jesus was/is so holy, pure and perfect that his countenance appears "shiny". :)

[Fiannan]

Yeah. IMHO, Jesus was olive skinned. Some even think he was black.

BBC NEWS | Magazine | So what colour was Jesus?

Oh really? What ethnic group is probably the most related to the Israelites? well, since they came out of the region now known as Syria maybe Jesus resembled these two very dark individuals -- President Asad and his wife (both Arabs):

A more ancient Syrian named Hannibal

Interesting.

Red Hair in General

<<Early tradition spoke of the Lost Ten Tribes being in the Scythian area. This has been discussed by Andrew Colin Gow ("The Red Jews. Anti-Semitism in an Apocalyptic Age 1200-1600" NY 1995). The Lost Ten Tribes were called "Red Jews" and were described as all having Red Hair. Red Hair in the Middle Ages especially in Germany was considered a negative characteristic and associated with the Jews and with Judas. The Anti-Christ and Judas were depicted as both having red hair and as both coming from the Tribe of Dan. In Germany the Jews were believed to be in league with the devil and to be plotting with the "Red Jews" meaning the Ten Tribes to overthrow Christendom.

Physical Anthropology of Israelite Peoples

[Fiannan]

Mohammed's view of Jesus:

There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.

(Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37, No. 4310)

[WillowTheWhisp]

FYI, there were black roman soldiers and commanders in the legions and even at the head of the empire. Skin color in the ancient world did not have the connotation and social divide it currently carries.

Wouldn't it be one in the eye for that certain pastor if Jesus turned out to have been a white guy persecuted by black guys?

[Fiannan]

The problem with genetics is that we are left with a bag full of conjecture and theory as to bio-type for early Semites. If they were desert dwellers, as we suspect, it is a fairly good assumption that they were darker than the typical Europeans. The diaspora Jews that later returned to Palestine had been intermarrying for 2000 years thus the physical differences. There are also Jews in north Africa, Turkey, Egypt and even Persia. And they do not look very European.

Yes, genetics is a mixed bag. The reason I developed an interest in this topic is when I was learning about the Church I thought it odd that Jews were described as white since I thought Middle Easterners were quite dark. Of course, that is before I met Middle Easterners on a large scale or even Jews. I know a Jew who looked almost identical with this Iranian actor portraying Jesus:

ABC News: Story of Jesus Through Iranian Eyes

The only difference was that he had brighter hair and a slightly larger nose. I also met an Israeli tourist who really resembled my oldest son (red hair, same basic facial features and very dark eyes). And most Jews I have met are either dark like Adam Sandler (that's not all that dark) or have William Shatner's complexion. Both these actors are Jewish.

I guess it's important since if you know that people of that region ranged from dark hair and slightly olive skin (perhaps Solomon) to pale skin and red hair (King David his father) and even blonde hair existed in these Semite tribes then the Book of Mormon makes more sense.

True, genetic studies are then made difficult since you had so many ethnic groups in the mix of what is now called the Middle East. ANd for the past several thousand years there have been invasions form Asia and Africa as well as many slaves brought into the region (some leaving their genes). As for the original Hebrew tribes all the sons of Isaac were polygamists and married from surrounding tribes and Joseph married an Egyptian -- another group made up of a variety of races and ethnic groups. So when people talk about Jewish genetics today one must realize that there is much more to the story.

FYI, there were black roman soldiers and commanders in the legions and even at the head of the empire. Skin color in the ancient world did not have the connotation and social divide it currently carries.

No doubt there were many groups represented in the Roman Empire. However, just out of curiosity, could you list any black leaders of the empire?

[Redbeard]

Clip, not my own writing (just to clarify) -

"The race of Jesus has been a subject of debate since at least the 19th century. The physical appearance of Jesus of Nazareth, though with no explicit emphasis on race, was also debated by theologians from early on in the history of Christianity. Different societies have depicted Jesus and most other biblical figures as their own ethnicity in their art; for example he is primarily white in the West, and black in Sub Saharan Africa. Such representations are not, in the modern day, usually intended to be historically accurate. The current dominant opinion among historians and scientists is that he most likely had olive skin, resembling modern-day persons of Middle Eastern descent. Others, however, have suggested other possible racial backgrounds. For some Christians the question is complicated by the belief that his birth was a unique miracle, an "incarnation in flesh of divine substance.""

Race of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[KosherXMorg]

Yes, genetics is a mixed bag. The reason I developed an interest in this topic is when I was learning about the Church I thought it odd that Jews were described as white since I thought Middle Easterners were quite dark. Of course, that is before I met Middle Easterners on a large scale or even Jews. I know a Jew who looked almost identical with this Iranian actor portraying Jesus:

ABC News: Story of Jesus Through Iranian Eyes

The only difference was that he had brighter hair and a slightly larger nose. I also met an Israeli tourist who really resembled my oldest son (red hair, same basic facial features and very dark eyes). And most Jews I have met are either dark like Adam Sandler (that's not all that dark) or have William Shatner's complexion. Both these actors are Jewish.

I guess it's important since if you know that people of that region ranged from dark hair and slightly olive skin (perhaps Solomon) to pale skin and red hair (King David his father) and even blonde hair existed in these Semite tribes then the Book of Mormon makes more sense.

True, genetic studies are then made difficult since you had so many ethnic groups in the mix of what is now called the Middle East. ANd for the past several thousand years there have been invasions form Asia and Africa as well as many slaves brought into the region (some leaving their genes). As for the original Hebrew tribes all the sons of Isaac were polygamists and married from surrounding tribes and Joseph married an Egyptian -- another group made up of a variety of races and ethnic groups. So when people talk about Jewish genetics today one must realize that there is much more to the story.

No doubt there were many groups represented in the Roman Empire. However, just out of curiosity, could you list any black leaders of the empire?

The above picture is what I essentially picture Jesus looking like. Do a comparison of the above picture with the Shroud of Turin.

[WANDERER]

Septimus Severus, Eudocia (Empress), Firmus. Moorish general: Lusius Quietus?? (I think?)

[Elphaba]

IMHO why god is white.. He is so shiny only colorwhite can describe his color.

I never tan, ever. So when I try and describe it, I say I am so white Heavenly Father would have to squint.

[Fiannan]

I never tan, ever. So when I try and describe it, I say I am so white Heavenly Father would have to squint.

Haha...that's funny!

[Moksha]

My guess is that Jesus originated somewhere in Scandinavia.

[Islander]

Septimus Severus, Eudocia (Empress), Firmus. Moorish general: Lusius Quietus?? (I think?)

Thank you Wanderer.

[pam]

I never tan, ever. So when I try and describe it, I say I am so white Heavenly Father would have to squint.

And this coming from a self proclaimed atheist. hahahaha Had to give you a hard time Elph.

[prisonchaplain]

Oh really? What ethnic group is probably the most related to the Israelites?

Here's another "black" view. THE PHYSICAL APPEARANCE OF ANCIENT ISRAEL THE HEBREWS

[prisonchaplain]

Physical Anthropology of Israelite Peoples

Fiannan, did you really intend to use as a source a group that espouses "British-Israelism?" This train of theology, basically that Brits and Americans are the lost tribes of Israel, is the foundation of White Supremist groups, and is discounted by most serious students of Judeo-Christian scriptures.