Big questions, hard times

[phantom_heart]

Hi all, I already posted in the intro thred but i'll just say my name is Erica and i'm canadian ...I do however have some BIG questions and i ask that no one discriminate but answer honestly because i'm just looking for help. I have just moved and haven't started going back to church yet but i plan to.

*takes a deep breath*

First of all my husband had an online affair. We are a young couple. I am 21 (soon to be 22 on july 12th) and he is 20. He didnt tell me i found out. They never met in person but there were the "i love you's and things like that" So that was bad enough. but THAN i relised he is pretending to be a woman...so this makes this online relationship a lesbian one.

We had our fights about it yelling me crying things like that. He dropped the bomb "Erica I'm trans gender" Than he left for a few hours and told me to look it up. I did.

Basicly for those who dont know what it means its not a cross dresser. He feels that he should have been born a woman. He has felt this way since he was just a little boy. His dream is to wake up and be a woman. He wants to save up 150 000 for sexual reassignment surgery. >.<

I dont know what to do! I am caught between commandments arnt i? If i leave my marrage thats looks bad in God's eyes if i stay than i'm...a lesbian? (i'm not by the way) I dont know what to do. I've prayed about this and its not like there is a wide viraity of info on this. The bible is clear with homosexuality i know that but he still loves me. Wants to be with me. He just wants to be a woman because he feels like he is one on the inside.

Could this be a trail that god has given him? Some advise would be great. The betrayal of the online relationship was bad enough but this i just dont know how to handle it.

[Hemidakota]

Again, welcome to the forum. It has nothing to do with GOD if he feels he needs to change gender. He has agency to choose his life path, as anyone else does.

At this point, my suggestion is to make an appointment with the local Bishop and be candid with him on what happen and your feelings.

President Spencer W. Kimball wrote;

Transsexual operations are travesty. Then we're appalled to find an ever-increasing number of women who want to be sexually men and many young men who wish to be sexually women. What a travesty! I tell you that, as surely as they live, such people will regret having made overtures toward the changing of their sex. Do they know better than God what is right and best for them? (74-27)

Some people are ignorant or vicious and apparently attempting to destroy the concept of masculinity and femininity. More and more girls dress, groom, and act like men. More and more men dress, groom, and act like women. The high purposes of life are damaged and destroyed by the growing unisex theory. God made man in his own image, male and female made he them. With relatively few accidents of nature, we are born male or female. The Lord knew best. Certainly, men and women who would change their sex status will answer to their Maker. [Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball] (74-30)

Edited June 19, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Same-Gender Attraction

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Chance to Start Over: Church Disciplinary Councils and the Restoration of Blessings

Search key: LDS.org - Search

Edited June 19, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

President Spencer W. Kimball wrote;

Transsexual operations are travesty. Then we're appalled to find an ever-increasing number of women who want to be sexually men and many young men who wish to be sexually women. What a travesty! I tell you that, as surely as they live, such people will regret having made overtures toward the changing of their sex. Do they know better than God what is right and best for them? (74-27)

Some people are ignorant or vicious and apparently attempting to destroy the concept of masculinity and femininity. More and more girls dress, groom, and act like men. More and more men dress, groom, and act like women. The high purposes of life are damaged and destroyed by the growing unisex theory. God made man in his own image, male and female made he them. With relatively few accidents of nature, we are born male or female. The Lord knew best. Certainly, men and women who would change their sex status will answer to their Maker. [Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball] (74-30)

[phantom_heart]

I'm going to discuss this with him....but what about my standing with god. I cant control my husband if he wants to do this he's going to do it. Where does that leave me?

I want to come back to the chruch but i'm scared, scared because he's suposed to be a member but doesnt want to be one and i do. I've never been to the temple and i'd love to go. But would what he's doing hold me back? I'm willing to pay tithing and follow the Wow....all it comes down to is how does his sin affect me now that i'm his wife. (We are not sealed in the temple as i just said i've never been befor)

[Hemidakota]

Dear sister, if you only knew how much He loves you. You have made the first step...that is good enough for Him to carry you the rest of the way.

Do not worry about your husband but allow the Spirit manifest in you to shine to him what is your main desire - living the Gospel and be worthy of His blessings.

At this point, I would not speculate what the Bishop will say but listen careful to his council. I would pray and ask prior to that meeting that the Spirit will be there with you both. Don't fear on what may be given, it will be your best interest. Have faith in Him, as I will be praying for you both.

[PapilioMemnon]

I dont know what to do! I am caught between commandments arnt i? If i leave my marrage thats looks bad in God's eyes if i stay than i'm...a lesbian? (i'm not by the way) I dont know what to do. I've prayed about this and its not like there is a wide viraity of info on this. The bible is clear with homosexuality i know that but he still loves me. Wants to be with me. He just wants to be a woman because he feels like he is one on the inside.

Could this be a trail that god has given him? Some advise would be great. The betrayal of the online relationship was bad enough but this i just dont know how to handle it.

I know that gender is an essential characterist the Lord has given us; if there's confusion, that has to do with the "natural" man/woman, wants, desires; it's the same with any inclination &/or dispositionwe have in this mortal life. Those are trials; we can either choose to do what we want or submit to the Lord and accept His ways, His will, and take our cross & follow Him! Each circumstance is different; we must pray, seek priesthood leaders blessings, and counsels, and seek the Lord in the scriptures and use the word of God to help your husband, not in hate/disgust/frustration, but love, and show him the ways of the Lord.... and be long-suffering/patient with his understanding of the word and ability to follow.

As far as being caught between commandments, it depends. Were you married in the Temple?

I'm going to be brief, but I hope it helps you in some way:

Depending on the other's choice and behavior, you also will need to make a choice because in marriage it'll ultimately affect you, your standing, your ability to live your beliefs and faith.

I had to make a choice of either staying in a relationship where the person could not see how his behavior/attitude was affecting me, and ultimately surrenderring to him my choices, or leave and suffer the consequences of it, but also have my freedom to choose, especially live my faith! I made a choice, a choice that was far better than the alternative since I was reaching a point that would have been a point of NO return! (And I don't mean making the choice to stay with him because that would probably lead me to make the choice that I would reach the point of NO return!) Unfortunately, I didn't chose the best ways to do things,... and be able to leave the situation the Lord's way, but as my Bishop told me: "You made a better choice even if the ways done wasn't not the best ones!"

With this said, please pray, pray, pray some more! Stop to ponder, and have "conversations" with the Lord... Ask Him these questions, read His words... and let them rest upon your mind.... and give some time to sink in and receive the answers.

Just make sure that you're doing ALL you can to qualify to receive His answers and not be deceived. When you think you got an answer, talk to your Bishop, check against the Lord's standards, ask for confirmations; He will give you and make it clear!!!

'

You're in my prayers, and so is your husband! Pray for him, especially to gain understanding and be humble.

[Hemidakota]

She pointed out she was not married in the temple....

[ruthiechan]

I would talk to your Bishop. If you do not know who he is, you can find out using the meeting house locator on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Could it be that he has family issues? Was he treated badly as a child by the women? Does he have an inferiority complex because he's male? Did the women in his family get special treatment? Were sisters given more love and attention by parents or other family members?

Could he simply be confused? Does he like doing girly things? Sewing, crafts, decorating, cutesy stuff, you know things that normally girls or gay men like? He says he's a transgender, but still likes females? Could it be that he's really a metrosexual, a guy who likes to do things that are typically girl hobbies, and wants to be able to do those things without people thinking he's gay?

Are there children involved?

You do not necessarily have to answer these questions to us on the forums, but these are things to think about.

PS: also, do follow PapilioMemnon's advice on prayer. I testify that it will help you find your direction.

[phantom_heart]

No he surprisingly doesnt like cutzy stuff. Its just not who he is but emotionally he's very female. Everyone thought he was gay when they first met him

I've asked him many times if he is confused he said no i know what i want. Its very upsetting.

No i dont have kids, no we were not sealed in the temple i have never gone thought i would love to.

Yes his mother didnt treat him the best, and yes when his sister was born she was treated better but he's the older one so i dont know.

I just moved to a new city and have never been to the church here. I dont know how it works. When i was in the church (in my home town) i relied heavily on the missionary's for guidance and help. They always came over once or twise a week to be with me (the sister missionary's) but because of my past when the last sister missionary's left and i herd elders were coming i closed myself off.

[john doe]

I hate to say it, but if he is determined to be a woman, you need a divorce. Let him go do his thing, and you can get on with your life. If you choose to stay on, this will not end well for you.

[phantom_heart]

IF it comes to that where does it leave me? Arnt I not alowed to get married again? This is what i mean I dont want his sin to affect me and my standing with god. I also wish i could help him he's just so resistant. He will NOT go see ANYONE not a counceller and certanlly not through the church i can see an argument there.

I'm just so scared for him and for myself. I'm not happy in my marriage and i'm shamed to admit that. I'm trying. Its just not something i know how to handel.

[Misshalfway]

My heart goes out to you! What a burden to shoulder so early in your marriage! But perhaps it will be a blessing that it has come out so soon.

I can't say I have any expert answers on the subject of transgender. But I would say that someone who is participating is such activities is putting their own salvation on the line. And would also be breaking covenants. I think sometimes people stay in very unhealthy and painful and even dangerous marriages because they are afraid to break covenants or vows. But if one party is participating in a life altering sinful lifestyle, isn't the covenant already broken? What covenant would you be breaking then if you left in such a circumstance? (Can't remember if you are sealed or not. Sorry.) How could his actions impact your standing with God? You are both individuals and will be judged as such. Remember God doesn't expect you to be perfect on your own. God knows and understands imperfections and unmet expectations and when situations fall short. Tender Mercies! Tender Mercies!

I qualify all my statements by saying that the counsel of your personal priesthood leaders and the Spirit of the HG should trump any of this.

And just from a very human and female stand point, I would feel lied to if I were in your shoes. Understanding this about your H would have been nice to know before you made vows to each other! I think there is some betrayal there that I think your H should own.

I think getting professional support could be very helpful here too. LDSSS may have some therapist with expertise and who can help you understand the depth of what you need to know in order to proceed with inevitable decisions.

And if your marriage ends, then your marriage ends. God will bless such a circumstance. I am confident. Don't you let that shame in!! Shame NEVER comes from God. Instead be gentle with yourself. You will do fine.

Stay strong and centered. Remember that Father in Heaven loves you and your H and understands the depths of this situation and He also knows what is best for you. He will listen to your heart and help guide you according to your needs and wants!

Edited June 19, 2008 by Misshalfway

[phantom_heart]

Thank you thats very uplifitng. Your right it would have been nice to know. As i've said no we are no sealed....but isnt there something in the bible stop me if i'm wrong but that says a woman may only divorce her husband AND remarry in the eyes of the lord if he commits abuse or adultry...witch he did online but i dont know if that counts >.< darn it i'm so confused.

I'm wondering how to get in contact with the local branch here. Its just that i'm living with my in laws and they kindly asked that we do NOT give out there address to the church. (its a rule for living here) so gah this is complicated. Once i have my own place again this would be simple.

[SmilingRedhead]

IF it comes to that where does it leave me? Arnt I not alowed to get married again? This is what i mean I dont want his sin to affect me and my standing with god. I also wish i could help him he's just so resistant. He will NOT go see ANYONE not a counceller and certanlly not through the church i can see an argument there.

I'm just so scared for him and for myself. I'm not happy in my marriage and i'm shamed to admit that. I'm trying. Its just not something i know how to handel.

Of course you can get married again if you were divorced. Lots and lots of divorced people in the church get married again. And because you haven't been sealed in the Temple to your current husband, you can be sealed to any future new husband who is worthy to take you to the Temple.

If you're not happy in your marriage you really need to have a good think about what the future holds for you and your husband if he chooses to go through with his gender change...

If you're not happy now then it probably won't get any better unless you really work things out in your mind, with your husband and with the Lord.

[Moksha]

A friend of mine on Beliefnet has a husband who has gone the entire transgender route, yet they stayed together. They have been living happily together up in Wisconsin for years. I guess that says about any relationship can work if you are committed to it.

[SmilingRedhead]

A friend of mine on Beliefnet has a husband who has gone the entire transgender route, yet they stayed together. They have been living happily together up in Wisconsin for years. I guess that says about any relationship can work if you are committed to it.

Yup, I totally agree. If you're completely committed and happy and the feelings are equally reciprocated then that certainly is a good basis for a strong relationship.

[PapilioMemnon]

A friend of mine on Beliefnet has a husband who has gone the entire transgender route, yet they stayed together. They have been living happily together up in Wisconsin for years. I guess that says about any relationship can work if you are committed to it.

Considering the impact of what we do here has on eternity and our standing before the Lord, it is not a simple matter of commitment to a mortal relationship that lasts for this time only; it's more important my commitment to the Lord and my covenants with Him, that I make the right choices when faced with difficult ones, and that I do wha is right before Him.

[Misshalfway]

Yes. Doing what is right before God....absolutely. But it this case is there condemnation if she stays? Is there condemnation if she leaves? I can't see any on either side. It is about choices. And God works within our agency and in support of our agency to lead us, not only to eternal happiness, but to temporal happiness as well.

It is a choice for this woman as to whether or not she will support her H and under what conditions she feels comfortable to do so. There are so many scenerios that are indeed loving that don't cause her to compromise her sexuality or morality or happiness. I think divorce could facilitate such things. I am sorry but something like this is a huge deal breaker. Perhaps some in the world find the ability to live with such circumstances. I applaud them for their love and commitment. But, I know that for myself, that would only be martyrdom. I couldn't do it. I could love and support and be a best friend. I could talk for long hours and understand and go shopping together. But share my bed? That isn't something that I could offer. Nor do I think God would expect something like that from me or any other woman. Women are queens over their bodies. We are not sacrificial lambs because our partners struggle with deep emotional disturbance and temptation.

I am not sure how such behavior makes one available for a meaningful, two-sided, equitable relationship. It seems to be that instead, the energy would all be sucked to the needs of the one as he indulges his fantasies and fails in his partnership.

Just a humble opinion and perhaps very flawed opinion.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Canuck Mormon]

Hi all, I already posted in the intro thred but i'll just say my name is Erica and i'm canadian ...I do however have some BIG questions and i ask that no one discriminate but answer honestly because i'm just looking for help. I have just moved and haven't started going back to church yet but i plan to.

*takes a deep breath*

First of all my husband had an online affair. We are a young couple. I am 21 (soon to be 22 on july 12th) and he is 20. He didnt tell me i found out. They never met in person but there were the "i love you's and things like that" So that was bad enough. but THAN i relised he is pretending to be a woman...so this makes this online relationship a lesbian one.

We had our fights about it yelling me crying things like that. He dropped the bomb "Erica I'm trans gender" Than he left for a few hours and told me to look it up. I did.

Basicly for those who dont know what it means its not a cross dresser. He feels that he should have been born a woman. He has felt this way since he was just a little boy. His dream is to wake up and be a woman. He wants to save up 150 000 for sexual reassignment surgery. >.<

I dont know what to do! I am caught between commandments arnt i? If i leave my marrage thats looks bad in God's eyes if i stay than i'm...a lesbian? (i'm not by the way) I dont know what to do. I've prayed about this and its not like there is a wide viraity of info on this. The bible is clear with homosexuality i know that but he still loves me. Wants to be with me. He just wants to be a woman because he feels like he is one on the inside.

Could this be a trail that god has given him? Some advise would be great. The betrayal of the online relationship was bad enough but this i just dont know how to handle it.

I went through a similar experience, but not exactly the same. After 7 years of marriage, and a total of 15 together, my wife came home from a "Self Improvement Weekend" course and told me that she was gay. I wasn't really that surprised as I noticed some signs earlier, but it was still a shock. She then went on to suggest that we have an open marriage due to the fact that there was a child involved. She is not a member of the church and I was inactive at the time, but I still could not live that way. We divorced and I have since returned to full activity in the church and was sealed to a wonderful woman last July. You need to do what's right for you and your beliefs. If that means leaving your husband because you do not want that kind of relationship, then that's what you must do. It's sad, but you must be responsible for your salvation.

Just my 2 cents, from a fellow Canuck.

[Flyonthewall]

Considering the impact of what we do here has on eternity and our standing before the Lord, it is not a simple matter of commitment to a mortal relationship that lasts for this time only; it's more important my commitment to the Lord and my covenants with Him, that I make the right choices when faced with difficult ones, and that I do wha is right before Him.

Thanks for pointing that out....While it is true that we can make any relationship "work" if we are committed to it, but you need to ask yourself where this relationship will take you if you stay in it. Will it lead you where you want to be?

This is not one of the "normal" issues that a young married couple goes through. This is much larger than that.

I don't mean to be judgmental about him or his decisions, but it sounds like he has his mind made up and will eventually go down that path. You know him better than anyone on this board, so go with your insight.

In a way, it is good that you have not gone through the temple with him yet, and that you have no kids. Those things tend to add a different degree of complexity to working out a solution for this issue.

My kneejerk reaction would be to end things now, so that the both of you can pursue the path in life that you want to go down(this is going on the assumption that you do not agree with transgender-ism, and could not live with its effects).

I have always felt that divorcing for "irreconcilable differences" was just another way to say "I didin't want to put the effort out to make it work", but if ever there was a case for irreconcilable differences, this would be it, IMHO.

I am not saying this is what you "should" do, but whatever you decide, keep the Lord in the loop.

[Flyonthewall]

Thank you thats very uplifitng. Your right it would have been nice to know. As i've said no we are no sealed....but isnt there something in the bible stop me if i'm wrong but that says a woman may only divorce her husband AND remarry in the eyes of the lord if he commits abuse or adultry...witch he did online but i dont know if that counts >.< darn it i'm so confused.

The Bible has many things in it that pertain to the time and place it was written. It also says that women should keep their heads covered, and be silent in church, but I would never think to enforce that here and now.

I would interpret that particular item to be "divorce only for reasons of unrighteousness like abuse or adultery", which, IMO, the issue set before you would definately fall into that category.

[phantom_heart]

Thanks everyone for this advise i feel a bit better.

Let me clerifiy something. If this was a frined of mine or anyone else i would be supportive i would be a friend..you know what i mean. Because as someone has said i dont share my bed with my friends. To me to each his own. If your gay thats between you and god, if your transgender thats between you and god. I'm certainty not going to stop you.

As for my situation emotionally i dont know how to handle it. Do i want to be divorced at 21? No. How would i tell my family? They are not in the church and there very old fassoned anyway. How do i get over the shame of being divorced. I'll be used meat and who wants that?

To be honest since this has happened its been about 3 months. I feel like my life has stopped and i only a shell.

BTW can anyone help me find who the bishop is in my city? As i said before my husbands family has asked that i NOT give out this address so i cant log onto the LDS website. Please let me know as i think i should meet with him about this so that i cant start living for me again.

[Canuck Mormon]

Thanks everyone for this advise i feel a bit better.

Let me clerifiy something. If this was a frined of mine or anyone else i would be supportive i would be a friend..you know what i mean. Because as someone has said i dont share my bed with my friends. To me to each his own. If your gay thats between you and god, if your transgender thats between you and god. I'm certainty not going to stop you.

As for my situation emotionally i dont know how to handle it. Do i want to be divorced at 21? No. How would i tell my family? They are not in the church and there very old fassoned anyway. How do i get over the shame of being divorced. I'll be used meat and who wants that?

To be honest since this has happened its been about 3 months. I feel like my life has stopped and i only a shell.

BTW can anyone help me find who the bishop is in my city? As i said before my husbands family has asked that i NOT give out this address so i cant log onto the LDS website. Please let me know as i think i should meet with him about this so that i cant start living for me again.

If you log onto Mormon.org and type in your address, or you could use a close address, (not kept on file, so don't worry about that), it will tell you which ward you are in and give you the phone numbers.

[phantom_heart]

If you log onto Mormon.org and type in your address, or you could use a close address, (not kept on file, so don't worry about that), it will tell you which ward you are in and give you the phone numbers.

Thanks I found where it is. Now to see if i can walk there (i havent lived in this big city very long) lets hope i find it.:)