Gender-specific sin?

[Listener]

First, a comment to Moksha--I cannot believe anyone else knows The Music Man.

The general message seems to be that confession is meant to be healing rather than traumatizing. It opens a door into your spiritual life, and lets the Spirit do some house-cleaning...and helps us become more like the people we were designed to be. My very best wishes to you--may you be pleasantly surprised by your experience!

Then a brief aside...I have always been troubled by the human habit of ranking the seriousness of sin. All sin is serious, but why sexual sin has come to be treated with more fear than greed, or pride, or lack of compassion, or hard-heartedness escapes me.

Bless you.

[spade]

Then a brief aside...I have always been troubled by the human habit of ranking the seriousness of sin. All sin is serious, but why sexual sin has come to be treated with more fear than greed, or pride, or lack of compassion, or hard-heartedness escapes me.

I agree that all sin is serious. I think perhaps sexual sin is treated with such careful attention because it messes with one of the most profound gifts of God, the ability to create. While pride and lack of compassion can damage a life in terrible ways the ramifications of sexual sin are vast and far-reaching. I'm desperately trying to avoid these pitfalls.

For those of us who enjoy the metaphores: We can draw a line in the sand that we say we won't cross. We can draw fifty such lines, but at the end of the day we are still standing in the sandbox. It's only a matter of time before we cross one of them and usually it's only as we try to climb out that we realize we are knee deep in quicksand. Thank heaven for the occasional rope thrown to us. :)

[pam]

Gender specific, eh? Is that like when the men cruise the streets singing, Good Night Ladies and the women buzz about doing Peck-a-Little, Pick-a-lot... ?

"Oh we got trouble..right here in River City"

[ruthiechan]

First, a comment to Moksha--I cannot believe anyone else knows The Music Man.

The general message seems to be that confession is meant to be healing rather than traumatizing. It opens a door into your spiritual life, and lets the Spirit do some house-cleaning...and helps us become more like the people we were designed to be. My very best wishes to you--may you be pleasantly surprised by your experience!

Then a brief aside...I have always been troubled by the human habit of ranking the seriousness of sin. All sin is serious, but why sexual sin has come to be treated with more fear than greed, or pride, or lack of compassion, or hard-heartedness escapes me.

Bless you.

It was explained to me that most sins do not directly effect other people, but sexual sin outside of masturbation does, which is why it is so akin to murder, especially nonconsensual sexual sin.

[Calypso]

Ruthie, that may have been explained to you, but Jesus Christ did say in various scriptures that a gossipping, lying , judgemental, angry and unkind tongue may not be murder of the flesh but akin to murder of the another's soul and therefore just as serious a sin. Pride, Greed, Hatred and Selfishness affect other people very negatively and directly too. The only sin that is greater than all other is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Calypso

[Calypso]

Ruthie, that may have been explained to you, but Jesus Christ did say in various scriptures a gossipping, lying, judgemental tongue does a lot of grievous harm to people and is akin to murder not of the flesh, but to the murder of a soul. Pride, Greed and selfishness affect other people very negatively too.

[Calypso]

Apologies for repetative posts, seem to have a network connection gremlin

[WANDERER]

It would seem that more women are undergoing more temptation in this area for a variety of reasons...and that women are being targetted more in terms of such things. This is difficult to cope with because of the belief that other women are somehow not affected by such things. While men may talk about this with their friends, because of the expectations that we have of ourselves and other women there is such a strong sense of isolation. Women generally talk about most topics openly..but this is one that really doesn't get talked about much and it's a hidden statistic. You are not alone. You've taken the first step of courage in posting to this forum *yay : ) *. I am sure that your Bishop will be very happy that you have been brave enough to speak with him about it and understand how difficult that is to do.

Edited August 9, 2008 by WANDERER

[Liesl]

I think you've been given fabulous advice here, and if you read again, you'll notice a repetitive pattern on certain things..... Your bishop loves you and won't judge you, take that first step and everyone falls victim somewhere or another.....

I know you'll do the right thing, no matter how hard.... I'll keep you in my prayers.

[Moksha]

After reading about so much trouble regarding confessing to the Bishop over the years on the net, I think it is unfortunate that we do not handle confession much like Catholics. People want to repent and get right with God. However, they do not want to suffer earthly shame and punishment. Too bad it cannot be totally anonymous (I have read too many reports of the details inadvertently leaked) as well as having any corrections being geared to get one more in touch will God (such as saying X number of sincere prayers of repentance) than as a prolonged punishment during which a sizable number leave the Church. Can't help but think that is the opposite of what they really need to reconcile with God.

Anyway, just a thought.... :)

[Fiannan]

Ruthie, that may have been explained to you, but Jesus Christ did say in various scriptures a gossipping, lying, judgemental tongue does a lot of grievous harm to people and is akin to murder not of the flesh, but to the murder of a soul. Pride, Greed and selfishness affect other people very negatively too.

True, I'd say gossip is a far worse sin for a man or woman to engage in than some of the stuff people keep bringing up in internet discussions.

[Obi_Jahn]

First, I apologize in advance if anything I post here comes off as the least bit light-minded.

That said, I can't seem to shake this image of your Bishop, sitting there giving you The Goldfish Look and saying "You're worried about that?". You'd be surprised how many people get all wrapped around the axle about "lesser" sins that they thought were The Worst Thing Ever.

Second, you don't know what sins others are guilty of. Don't try to "rack and stack 'em" and beat yourself up in the process.

Third, you'd be amazed at how many women -- in the Church! -- are guilty of very serious transgressions.

Fourth, men are not really more aggressive. Passive aggression is also a form of aggression.

Lastly, there is a terrible double standard within the Church in these matters. Men do tend to be judged far more harshly, many times for things that a female instigated passive-aggressively.

Keep on keeping on.

[rameumptom]

After reading about so much trouble regarding confessing to the Bishop over the years on the net, I think it is unfortunate that we do not handle confession much like Catholics. People want to repent and get right with God. However, they do not want to suffer earthly shame and punishment. Too bad it cannot be totally anonymous (I have read too many reports of the details inadvertently leaked) as well as having any corrections being geared to get one more in touch will God (such as saying X number of sincere prayers of repentance) than as a prolonged punishment during which a sizable number leave the Church. Can't help but think that is the opposite of what they really need to reconcile with God.

Anyway, just a thought.... :)

The difference being that Catholic priests are believed to be the stand in/vicar for Christ, and forgive the person of sin, and so can do so anonymously.

In the LDS Church, repentance is a process, and confession is just one part of it. And only the Lord can forgive on his own behalf, though he can reveal to a bishop through the Spirit when that forgiveness has occurred. An LDS bishop's role is to assist the person in repenting, which just cannot happen in an anonymous, behind the curtain way.

[Over43]

I don't think there are "gender" specific sins. I was sitting with a class of high school seniors once, during a study hall pretending not to be paying attention, which I for the most part wasn't (and they weren't whispering or anything). They started telling each other the secret little things that they do and I was surprised I guess to hear the young ladies, just as frequently as the young men admit they had masturbated on a regular basis. I think we're conditioned to believe that that is a male only response to puberty and young adulthood, but from where I was sitting that afternoon it sounded to be a pretty general activity for both sides. But I guess what was a bigger surprise was how open they all were about it.

O43

[tomxsumm]

I think going "topless" may be considered a gender specific sin. Err.... at least in the US areas of the church. So yes, there are gender specific sins.

[Fiannan]

I think going "topless" may be considered a gender specific sin. Err.... at least in the US areas of the church. So yes, there are gender specific sins.

Would going topless actually be a sin?

[WANDERER]

Not in the context of breast feeding, mamograms, cultural dance troupes...

Hate to say it, but even righteous women have to change clothing and shower. Good try though : )

I guess in the context of immorality...but that sin crosses both genders.

Um, yes, I find that too Over43.

Edited August 11, 2008 by WANDERER

[Fiannan]

Not in the context of breast feeding, mamograms, cultural dance troupes...

Hate to say it, but even righteous women have to change clothing and shower. Good try though : )

I guess in the context of immorality...but that sin crosses both genders.

Um, yes, I find that too Over43.

I read somewhere recently that in places like New York in the 1930s men were fined for going topless on public beaches.

As for cultural dance troupes, is that in reference to African tribal dances or things you might see in shows at the big hotels in Vegas?

[WANDERER]

Actually it's a reference to an experience where this Fijiian dance troupe found that parts of their tour were cancelled due to wearing traditional attire...sad huh. They were pretty offended.

LOL at how male bathing costumes have changed far more rapidly than female ones. Bathing machines ...oh my.

On the science front

Genes May Make Some People More Prone To Anxiety

Genetics determine responses to viewing things and attention given.

Edited August 11, 2008 by WANDERER

[Fiannan]

I don't think there are "gender" specific sins. I was sitting with a class of high school seniors once, during a study hall pretending not to be paying attention, which I for the most part wasn't (and they weren't whispering or anything). They started telling each other the secret little things that they do and I was surprised I guess to hear the young ladies, just as frequently as the young men admit they had masturbated on a regular basis. I think we're conditioned to believe that that is a male only response to puberty and young adulthood, but from where I was sitting that afternoon it sounded to be a pretty general activity for both sides. But I guess what was a bigger surprise was how open they all were about it.

O43

Yeah, people are a lot more open about this sort of thing nowadays -- including women. A female friend of mine recently admited to me she is into Japanese porn (believe me, this gal you'd never expect). Another gal I know was reading an article on porn and business (she'd picked up a magazine as we were waiting for a train) and then commented to me it was interesting but why would someone pay when there was so much amateur stuff. Just for fun I asked what she meant and she started giving examples and then turned deep red (pretty hard for most Turkish women but she is fair complected) and tried to change the subject.

Research as well as anctedotal evidence indicates the old wives tale that women are into emotional stuff and guys are into visual stuff is just not true. In times past women merely were more expected to repress such interest. Nowadays, with the internet, that isn't the case -- but don't totally blame the computer since articles about VCRs making porn mainstream started appearing in the mid 1980s.

[rameumptom]

The key is, there are sins. Some people or gender are more predisposed towards certain sins than others, as the statistics I sent last week show.

I also noted that the rate of crime being committed by women is on the rise. It is no coincidence that the rate of immorality among women is also on the rise. With the "openness" of our amoral society, it is only a matter of time before sexual sin is rampant in both genders.

This is on the same view as fashion trends and crimes used to start in the big cities, and slowly find their way into country areas. Well, with 500 channels and Internet, everyone now lives in a big world city. There is no more 20 year lag between the fashions and music of New York City and Podunk, Alabama. It is instantaneous.

It reminds me of the story in the Book of Moses, where Lamech brags to his wives about slaying a man for the sake of the secret combination. The wives spread the secret and oath abroad, which then causes the whole earth to be filled with violence.

Don't we have that now occurring, as technology spews forth so much evil?

Note that along with the Earth being filled with violence and evil, it was also the time when Enoch built his city. Seems like things are happening all over again the same way.

[Over43]

Which makes me wonder, in this discussion, what are all of these 18-30 year olds going to do in 10/20/30 years when they realize there are inappropriate pictures and VIDEOS of themselves on the internet that they are never going to be able to get rid of? A tattoo is one thing...

Best Life Magazine ran an article about how companies are doing extensive web searches on all their new applicants. Imagine having something like that show up?

I've done dumb stuff, but...

O43

[jack-a-roo]

There are no gender-specific sins. But there are some sins where one gender is more disposed to offending.

Most violent criminals in prison today are male. By a very large margin. Most child abusers are male. By a very large margin. Most sexual assaults are caused by men. Once again, by a very large margin.

Men tend toward a series of physical relationships, while most women tend toward intimate relationships. Locker room talk shows that men discuss their "conquests." And date rape is a very common thing today.

More men tend toward masturbation than women. More men are involved in pornography. It isn't a new thing, either. Just read Jacob in the BoM to see how the men were destroying the trust of their wives and children.

As it is, all those involved in sexual sin, men and women, need to repent. Bishops are not seeking to punish anyone. They are seeking to heal the person, and have the person come back into communion with the Lord and His Church.

I understand that...

Especially in today's society men tend to get blamed for crimes like that more than women.

If a women slaps a man on the face, it's usually assumed the man did something wrong to the women to diserve it..but if a man slaps a women on the face, it's still assumed he did something wrong and the women was innocent.

It really isn't fair.

[Islander]

I wrote a paper long ago about the evolution of organizational/social systems and the impact of the law/religion across them. I know I have the research somewhere with stats.

In many cultures, the law originate and codified by historical religious mores and values. thus a woman can be severely "punished" physically and even killed (honor defense) by her husband or father for an offense (adultery for example) without such (the injury) constituting a punishable offense for the male. Now, males do not suffer the same application of the law if they transgress the same law. We tend to inherit that kind of "flexible" application of the law here in the US. Depending on the cultural milieu, society tends to treat men and women differently for the same offense. In the research I cite stats for

1. Sexual offenses

2. Drug use/possession.

3, Prostitution

4. Assault and battery

5. White color crimes

There is gender-based bias within the social environment that is translated into the legal system.

[Vort]

5. White color crimes

Racism as well as sexism!!!