Need for Mormon Confessional?

[Misshalfway]

What do I think????

Well, since you asked, Moksha (wink), personally I respect the Catholic practice of confession. Confession is good for the soul, as they say.

I know that their are problems when average and flawed individuals lead other average and flawed individuals. But I think that there is something healthy about having to confess to another eye to eye and face to face. There is no hiding when it comes to God. And as the scriptures describe, sin makes us feel like we should hide our faces. But, Christ wants us to look at him into his face and feel the marks on his hands and feet perhaps symbolically by meeting with the bishop in that open and honest way. Christ takes away all shame and all need to hide but he also requires all humility and all willingness to face our mistakes and give them away openly. I think that meeting directly with someone is more of a deterrent as well as being an experience that works directly with the individual to convert them so that sins don't repeat themselves.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Misshalfway

[WANDERER]

An unwed mother I asked to be my sponsor for first communion was unable to take on that responsibility. She was unable to take communion. It comes under the category of a mortal sin/grave sin or venial sin...according to context. I'm not sure what the terms are for lifting this or whether they still apply and under what conditions and whether they are self-imposed...I assume it's up to the priest to advise not taking communion (eucharist) and when you can and up to local bishops (who may be informed, but are under the code of silence). I'm not sure if this is still in practice..

By the way, missing mass is considered a mortal sin by some. You also should not receive communion if you had a civil marriage rather than a Catholic marriage etc. Taking the eucharist without confession is also considered very serious.

People may do it anyway...I think repercussions are applied in cases.

Gossip happens I suspect....people have a habit of making up what they don't know. Confidentiality doesn't mean you won't be on the receiving end... your selection for church roles may perhaps be limited as well. You may not be reading out verses during mass or part of the prayers or heading the welfare committee....so there are other ways to tell how serious things are.

One of my friends went into sheer panic when a priest she made confessions to left the priesthood. That also happens. Consider your confidentiality clause on shakey ground if that happens.

But yes, priests don't tell.

Edited August 11, 2008 by WANDERER

[StrawberryFields]

Thank you Wanderer for that. :)

[Vort]

Some have focused on the confessional booth rather than the practice of saying prayers of contrition and performing good deeds as a way of repenting and getting right with God.

How fortunate we are in knowing that "saying prayers of contrition and performing good deeds" are not sufficient "as a way of repenting and getting right with God."

I still think this method had more to offer than a prolonged punishment

Of course, the Church does not punish. God punishes. I doubt you, or anyone else, has the authority to instruct God in how or whether to punish a sinner.

were there is a chance the penitent person will leave the Church if disfellowshipped or especially excommunicated.

If excommunicated, the person no longer has to worry about leaving the Church, only about getting back in. And if a "penitent person" would leave the kingdom of God over being disfellowshipped, that is prima facie evidence that he isn't penitent.

That seems like it would defeat the purpose of the Church being the Sheppard which cares for the flock and see each sheep as worth saving.

Christ will save all those who wish to be saved. One who would abandon God's kingdom over issues of pride and ego is demonstrating a lack of desire for salvation.

[NeuroTypical]

Repentence, according to the Gospel Principles Manual, involves the following:

We Must Recognize Our Sins

We Must Feel Sorrow for Our Sins

We Must Forsake Our Sins

We Must Confess Our Sins

Confessing our sins is very important. The Lord has commanded us to confess our sins. Confession relieves a heavy burden from the sinner. The Lord has promised, “I, the Lord, forgive sins, and am merciful unto those who confess their sins with humble hearts” (D&C 61:2).

We must confess all our sins to the Lord. In addition, we must confess serious sins, such as adultery, fornication, and robbery, which might affect our standing in the Church, to the proper priesthood authority. If we have sinned against another person, we should confess to the person we have injured. Some less serious sins involve no one but ourselves and the Lord. These may be confessed privately to the Lord.

We Must Make Restitution

We Must Forgive Others

“Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin” (D&C 64:9).

We Must Keep the Commandments of God

[Misshalfway]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Repentance involves a change of heart and sincere remorse. Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability.

Hi thejason,

I fully realize I am on an LDS forum and I am a guest here BUT the statement you offer as " fact " is rooted in obvious enormous ignorance.

I would strongly suggest that if you wish to learn ( and not state your very shallow opinions) you may want to take a similar journey as I have.:)

God bless,

Ceeboo

Could it be that some of these misconceptions come from Hollywood?

LM just posted a very clear explanation of the LDS confession.

Would you mind telling us about the Catholic practice of confession? How does it work? Is every sin confessed to a priest in a formal way or is there repentance that can be done at home?

And for me and my vast ignorance....what is a 'hail mary'? And what is the purpose of rosery beads and do they relate to confession at all? My catholic boyfriend gave them to me long ago. Said they would keep me safe. But he never really explained any more than that.

[bytor2112]

And for me and my vast ignorance....what is a 'hail mary'?

It is a last-second pass to score a touchdown and win the football game.......:lol:

Edited August 11, 2008 by bytor2112

[bytor2112]

Why cant people just repent themselves, on their knees, in prayer to Heavenly Father?

Ultimately, that is what you must do......confession of a serious transgression to your Bishop ultimately determines your standing in the church. It also allows the Bishop to help you through your struggle. In the end, the church doesn't forgive sins...only Heavenly Father does that.

[Truegrits]

It is a last-second pass to score a touchdown and win the football game.......

:lol:

[Truegrits]

I think a Hail Mary is a prayer???

I always thought that when a person was told, after confessing, to do ten Hail Marys, that they were to say ten prayers, as part of their repentance.

[Vort]

And for me and my vast ignorance....what is a 'hail mary'? And what is the purpose of rosery beads and do they relate to confession at all?

Disclaimer: I am not a Catholic, nor do I play one on the interwebs.

The Catholic religion has a large number of set prayers that believers recite in order to gain favor with God or with his intermediates, called "saints". The greatest of these saints is Mary, the mother of Christ; as one faithful Catholic explained to me, "She is the mother of God, and therefore the mother of us all."

The primary prayer to Mary is based on the angel Gabriel's words to her about being the mother of the Savior. The original Latin prayer goes (this is from memory, and I've never been Catholic, so it may not quite be right):

"Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tuii Iesus. Sancta Maria, mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen."

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the time of our death. Amen."

When a Catholic confesses to a priest, the priest usually assigns a "penitence" that the person must complete to be forgiven. This typically consists of saying various prayers, as well as other things. So the priest might tell the confessor, "Say three "Hail Mary"s and three "Our Father"s*", referencing the prayers by name that they are to repeat.

*The "Our Father", or "Pater noster", is another set Catholic prayer, this one based on Jesus' exemplary prayer that begins "Our Father which art in heaven..."

Rosary beads are a mnemonic device that allows a Catholic who is praying to keep track of which prayers he has said and how many are left. When you "pray the rosary", you recite each prayer represented by each bead of the rosary. As far as I know, they don't directly relate to confession, unless perhaps the priest tells the penitent to "pray the rosary".

Edited August 12, 2008 by Vort
Forgot about rosary beads

[thejason]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Repentance involves a change of heart and sincere remorse. Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability.

Hi thejason,

I fully realize I am on an LDS forum and I am a guest here BUT the statement you offer as " fact " is rooted in obvious enormous ignorance.

I would strongly suggest that if you wish to learn ( and not state your very shallow opinions) you may want to take a similar journey as I have.:)

God bless,

Ceeboo

Actually I never stated my post as fact. I posted my own personal opinion, which is solid and unchangeable. I do not wish to learn other teachings as I believe the Lord's teachings through living prophets are sufficient.

[Guest ceeboo]

Could it be that some of these misconceptions come from Hollywood?

LM just posted a very clear explanation of the LDS confession.

Would you mind telling us about the Catholic practice of confession? How does it work? Is every sin confessed to a priest in a formal way or is there repentance that can be done at home?

And for me and my vast ignorance....what is a 'hail mary'? And what is the purpose of rosery beads and do they relate to confession at all? My catholic boyfriend gave them to me long ago. Said they would keep me safe. But he never really explained any more than that.

Hi again Misshalfway, ( AKA thejason ) :)

Hollywood ?? ( Catholics have no change of heart or remorse and we confess to some guy behind a curtain and magically we are forgiven ) hmmm that doesn't sound like hollywood, sounds more like an ignorant statement made with a real lack of kindness by a bitter non Catholic. ( of course in my humble opinion )

Catholic practice of confession ( I speak for me and not for the Church )

We have the opportunity to go see an ordained priest ( priest= someone who goes to seminary takes the oath and is educated to the teachings, practices, and tools offered by the Church so as to help all of us broken sinners be obsolved of our sin ) Notice that this is not " some guy " rather a devoted priest of the Church. The actuall confessions are held atleast once a week and when you confess you can sit face to face or you can have a screen seperating you ( this option is offered to all ). I should add ( from my personal perspective) that these confessions many times lead to a " back and forth " with the Priest that helps us sort through difficult things we deal with in our lives and usually branches out from the original topic of the sin. This " back and forth " also lends itself to spiritual guidance that is desperatly needed in today's world.

Repentance done at home?? ( Not sure what you mean ) For me, just a broken sinning Catholic, I always ask God for his forgiveness wether I am at home, in a car, or on the left side of the 16th fairway. I also try and thank him for all I have too.:)

" hail mary " The short answer is a prayer. For the long answer I would suggest Cathoc answers.com:)

Lastly, your Catholic boyfriend, is he still your boyfriend ??:):):)

God bless,

Carl

[Moksha]

How fortunate we are in knowing that "saying prayers of contrition and performing good deeds" are not sufficient "as a way of repenting and getting right with God."

Are you sure we know that?

If excommunicated, the person no longer has to worry about leaving the Church, only about getting back in. And if a "penitent person" would leave the kingdom of God over being disfellowshipped, that is prima facie evidence that he isn't penitent.

Prima Facie, eh? I would think that desiring the confessional process in the first place was evidence of penitence.

[Misshalfway]

Woah! You think I am "the Jason"????? Wow!!!!

[HiJolly]

Actually I never stated my post as fact. I posted my own personal opinion, which is solid and unchangeable.

Yikes! How sad.

I do not wish to learn other teachings as I believe the Lord's teachings through living prophets are sufficient.

That's only true, from the LDS standpoint, if YOU are the "living prophet" in question.

HiJolly

[Moksha]

...what is a 'hail mary'? And what is the purpose of rosery beads and do they relate to confession at all?

From the Wikipedia

• The Hail Mary or Ave Maria (Latin) is a traditional Christian prayer asking for the intercession of the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus. The Hail Mary is used within Roman Catholicism, and it forms the basis of the Rosary. The prayer is also used by the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox as well as by many other groups within the Catholic tradition of Christianity including Anglicans, Independent Catholics, and Old Catholics. Some Protestant denominations also make use of the prayer. Most of the text of the Hail Mary can be found within the Gospel of Luke: "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women" (Luke 1:28) and "Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" (Luke 1:42).

The prayer goes: "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

The mumble beads serve as an abacas to keep track of the number of prayers.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Moksha

[Guest ceeboo]

Actually I never stated my post as fact. I posted my own personal opinion, which is solid and unchangeable. I do not wish to learn other teachings as I believe the Lord's teachings through living prophets are sufficient.

Hi again thejason,

Then i will offer you this " your personal opinion that is solid and unchangeable is indeed a very ignorant opinion.:)

" You don't wish to learn other teachings " ( obviously )

God bless,

Carl:

[Misshalfway]

Hi again Misshalfway, ( AKA thejason ) :)

Hollywood ?? ( Catholics have no change of heart or remorse and we confess to some guy behind a curtain and magically we are forgiven ) hmmm that doesn't sound like hollywood, sounds more like an ignorant statement made with a real lack of kindness by a bitter non Catholic. ( of course in my humble opinion )

Carl

Ok. This is really bothering me because frankly I don't agree with this other poster in any degree nor would I say such unfeeling comments. And I am not a bitter non-catholic. AND, I have tried so hard to be respectful to you and generate a balanced conversation not to mention extending you my friendship. So, I gotta say, this one kinda hurts.

[thejason]

Yikes! How sad.

It's sad that I have a firm belief in something?

That's only true, from the LDS standpoint, if YOU are the "living prophet" in question.

HiJolly

I'm not sure that makes any sense. I can only believe a prophet's words if I'm the prophet myself?

[thejason]

Then i will offer you this " your personal opinion that is solid and unchangeable is indeed a very ignorant opinion.:)

In your mind, maybe. But that's the beauty of an opinion. I can express a belief whether or not anyone else agrees.

[bytor2112]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Repentance involves a change of heart and sincere remorse. Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability.

Confession to a bishop is not about shame. Any shame felt is brought about only by the sinner. A bishop is a priesthood leader and a common judge. He is there to guide and give counsel, and in very few cases proclaim someone worthy if the sin was great. Repentance is ultimately between the sinner and the Lord.

I know lots of Catholics who would disagree with your assertions. It is my understanding that Catholics believe in Jesus Christ just as strongly as we (LDS) do and are prone to feeling just as remorseful for sinning as we do. Ever heard the phrase "Catholic guilt"? I think that they can confess face to face as well and are subject to Ecclesiastical discipline just as we are. I am sure that their Priest is their to give guidance and counsel as well. You are correct though, in the end repentance is between the sinner and God and requires a mighty change of heart.

[thejason]

I know lots of Catholics who would disagree with your assertions. It is my understanding that Catholics believe in Jesus Christ just as strongly as we (LDS) do and are prone to feeling just as remorseful for sinning as we do. Ever heard the phrase "Catholic guilt"? I think that they can confess face to face as well and are subject to Ecclesiastical discipline just as we are. I am sure that their Priest is their to give guidance and counsel as well. You are correct though, in the end repentance is between the sinner and God and requires a mighty change of heart.

The original post was about a Catholic-style confession in the LDS church. The Catholics can confess any way they choose to, but the Lord has revealed to our modern-day prophets the proper way to confess. Of course the Catholics would disagree with me. If they agreed with our methods they'd probably be members of our church. I'm not discounting anything Catholics believe. They can choose to believe how they want, and I would never take away that right. Our church, however, is not the Catholic church.

[Misshalfway]

You ever have those moments in your day when you realize that you just stepped in poop?????

Well I am afraid I have here. Ceeboo, I just reread your post and saw the comma in between my name and the aka in quotes. Now I understand. And I apologize for getting completely bent out of shape.

My humblest apologies ..... as I clean the lenses on my glasses!

[Guest ceeboo]

Ok. This is really bothering me because frankly I don't agree with this other poster in any degree nor would I say such unfeeling comments. And I am not a bitter non-catholic. AND, I have tried so hard to be respectful to you and generate a balanced conversation not to mention extending you my friendship. So, I gotta say, this one kinda hurts.

Misshalfway,

The AKA thejason was a humor attempt ( because you responded to my post to him)

Hidsight being 20/20, I would take it back:)

I never said you were any of those things, far from it, you have been a blessing to me:)

Serious confusion, Sorry

God bless,

Carl