Need for Mormon Confessional?

[Moksha]

After reading about so much trouble regarding confessing to the Bishop over the years on the net, I think it is unfortunate that we do not handle confession much like Catholics. People want to repent and get right with God. However, they do not want to suffer earthly shame and punishment. Too bad it cannot be totally anonymous (I have read too many reports of the details inadvertently leaked) as well as having any corrections being geared to get one more in touch will God (such as saying X number of sincere prayers of repentance) than as a prolonged punishment during which a sizable number leave the Church. Can't help but think that is the opposite of what they really need to reconcile with God.

Anyway, just a thought.... :)

What do you think?

[funkymonkey]

This reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Flanders is calling his pastor 5 times a day confessing everything as it comes.

I think the adversary has a little to do with this... just like he tells Adam and Eve to hide in their nakedness, he wants us to hide in our sins...because then how can we be forgiven?

[Palerider]

After reading about so much trouble regarding confessing to the Bishop over the years on the net, I think it is unfortunate that we do not handle confession much like Catholics. People want to repent and get right with God. However, they do not want to suffer earthly shame and punishment. Too bad it cannot be totally anonymous (I have read too many reports of the details inadvertently leaked) as well as having any corrections being geared to get one more in touch will God (such as saying X number of sincere prayers of repentance) than as a prolonged punishment during which a sizable number leave the Church. Can't help but think that is the opposite of what they really need to reconcile with God.

Anyway, just a thought.... :)

What do you think?

the other side of this is....those who break a confidence could be subject to a church court as well.....you don't hear much about this but it can happen....

[Moksha]

This reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Flanders is calling his pastor 5 times a day confessing everything as it comes.

Many protestants think that confession is something directly between the Penitent and God. I think Flanders felt that telling a middle man helped in the process. The Reverend Lovejoy could not have been happy about Flanders going overboard with confessing.

[funkymonkey]

haha! From what I remember, the whole point of that episode was that because Flanders was so overboard with his confessions, Lovejoy just stopped caring.

[thejason]

After reading about so much trouble regarding confessing to the Bishop over the years on the net, I think it is unfortunate that we do not handle confession much like Catholics. People want to repent and get right with God. However, they do not want to suffer earthly shame and punishment. Too bad it cannot be totally anonymous (I have read too many reports of the details inadvertently leaked) as well as having any corrections being geared to get one more in touch will God (such as saying X number of sincere prayers of repentance) than as a prolonged punishment during which a sizable number leave the Church. Can't help but think that is the opposite of what they really need to reconcile with God.

Anyway, just a thought.... :)

What do you think?

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Repentance involves a change of heart and sincere remorse. Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability.

Confession to a bishop is not about shame. Any shame felt is brought about only by the sinner. A bishop is a priesthood leader and a common judge. He is there to guide and give counsel, and in very few cases proclaim someone worthy if the sin was great. Repentance is ultimately between the sinner and the Lord.

[StrawberryFields]

This is an interesting concept.

I have never been a catholic and so I have only seen things from movies about this. I think that it may be nice to have it like that. I think we may confess to sins that don't ever require a "Bishops Confession"

[Superbaldguy]

There are a few sins that are grievous enough that confession is needed in the Church to the appropriate leadership, namely the bishop, and such situations may require a ward or even stake-level court. Sadly, I have been on High Council courts and have seen some very serious cases that involved criminal activity.

We surely don't need a Catholic-style confessional.........

Most sins are to be confessed to the Lord, but He knows your wrongdoings - He still wants you to acknowledge your mistakes and that your conscious is pricked to the point where you need to repent and effect changes in your life.

[Islander]

I think it is a matter of perspective. The Savior was stripped to his undergarments, flailed brutally and publicly, nailed to the cross like a common criminal until he suffocated in his own fluids. All of it very public and he bore that without shame for ALL of us.

I do not desire pain and anguish on anyone. But perhaps some shame is a small price to pay for a sin against God and the heartache it causes to loved ones. If we are not willing to endure it I doubt very much the repentance in genuine. The Bishop has been appointed by the Lord as a judge but primarily as a counselor. He is there to instruct and guide the "recovery process" to ensure that the person is doing what needs to be done to repair and repent, but also to comfort and support in this very trying experience. Most Bishops love and hurt as well for the trials of all involved. I have seen my Bishop cry (he is also my friend of many years) overwhelmed with the task of helping a family shaken by sin. Even more sad, he is unable to share his own burden and feelings on account of this situation with any one.

Just my thoughts.

[pam]

Anyone also includes his wife. My dad was in several Bishoprics and my dad would never discuss anything that went on with the ward and members with my mom even though they shared everything else.

[WANDERER]

As far as I know confessional booths are outdated...I believe that they now do it in the same was as LDS..face to face. I'm not sure if this is worldwide or localised. The only real problem you may have is when a priest is defrocked or leaves the calling...otherwise confidentiality is pretty much part of keeping your job. As with LDS some confessions cannot be kept confidential I believe...but not sure of the protocols involving that or how correct I am.

Ummmm...I think the Catholics stress about their confessions as much as anyone else does...Everyone stresses about being worthless in the same way.... and it isn't that unlikely that reparation may be given as an instruction as well as some pretty solid prayer. I spent some time in a catholic school as a kid and was catholic (until my mother packed us up to become pentecostal). I remember going to the confessional booth with a few friends (we were all extremely stressed about it) and expecting a quick prayer or two...I misunderstood...I was told to make reparations as well as given a pretty hefty prayer penance...it took a fair amount of time to complete..I always laugh at the idea that it's easy cause perhaps I just got the wrong priest...I don't know. Some sins mean you can't take communion or be involved in church ordinances: altar girls/boys; communion sponsors and so on.

Edited August 10, 2008 by WANDERER

[StrawberryFields]

When I have seen the movies they seem to confess of much smaller sins than we actually do, that is what I meant.

I thought that it might be good for us to think of the little things more often. :)

[WANDERER]

That I think may be true S.F...you're supposed to confess everything...or what you can remember LOL (not to be irreverent, just funny how we would sit there and try to remember what things we had done ..kid's memories can be pretty short term..in a panic I once rattled off a list of things that I hadn't done...just in case LOL) ...this is as far as I know, and from a very limited understanding at that. Perhaps the movies shorten things...it would make a long and dull list for most. There probably isn't a huge level of questioning and counselling involved in rattling off a list, limited input was given.... so I wonder how the face-to-face confessionals are different. To be honest...I would not find that appealing at all because I probably would do very little talking in a situation like that and the benefit is only there inasmuch as you can contribute.

I think counselling groups and help groups have replaced to some degree the whole confessional idea...confess or work through them.

Edited August 10, 2008 by WANDERER

[Brenton]

Why cant people just repent themselves, on their knees, in prayer to Heavenly Father?

[Moksha]

I think counseling groups and help groups have replaced to some degree the whole confessional idea...confess or work through them.

That is an excellent suggestion for counseling when one can't seem to work through the problem otherwise.

[MorningStar]

If you're worried about it not being kept confidential, I'm sure bishops would still know our voices if they know us well enough. I would rather talk to the bishop face to face instead of wondering, "Did he know it was me?" And to have him look me in the eyes and see that he cares for me is nice. :)

[Traveler]

After reading about so much trouble regarding confessing to the Bishop over the years on the net, I think it is unfortunate that we do not handle confession much like Catholics. People want to repent and get right with God. However, they do not want to suffer earthly shame and punishment. Too bad it cannot be totally anonymous (I have read too many reports of the details inadvertently leaked) as well as having any corrections being geared to get one more in touch will God (such as saying X number of sincere prayers of repentance) than as a prolonged punishment during which a sizable number leave the Church. Can't help but think that is the opposite of what they really need to reconcile with God.

Anyway, just a thought.... :)

What do you think?

Perhaps we should consider confessing a sin before we do it (say all the sincere repentance prayers and take the punishments etc. before) - that way we can just skip all the guilty feelings or concerns about who knows. If someone should catch us or asks even while committing our favorite sins we could just say with a bright happy smile , "Not to worry, it’s already taken care of."

The Traveler

[Guest ceeboo]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Repentance involves a change of heart and sincere remorse. Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability.

Hi thejason,

I fully realize I am on an LDS forum and I am a guest here BUT the statement you offer as " fact " is rooted in obvious enormous ignorance.

I would strongly suggest that if you wish to learn ( and not state your very shallow opinions) you may want to take a similar journey as I have.:)

God bless,

Ceeboo

[StrawberryFields]

Perhaps we should consider confessing a sin before we do it (say all the sincere repentance prayers and take the punishments etc. before) - that way we can just skip all the guilty feelings or concerns about who knows. If someone should catch us or asks even while committing our favorite sins we could just say with a bright happy smile , "Not to worry, it’s already taken care of."

The Traveler

Hello Traveler,

Are you making fun repentance?

[Vort]

Hello Traveler,

Are you making fun repentance?

What Traveler was doing seemed obvious to me. He was referencing the practice of purchased indulgences to counter Moksha's rather, er, interesting suggestion about adopting Catholic practices of confession.

Point well taken, Traveler.

[StrawberryFields]

What Traveler was doing seemed obvious to me. He was referencing the practice of purchased indulgences to counter Moksha's rather, er, interesting suggestion about adopting Catholic practices of confession.

I am still not comfortable with the mocking tone...

[Guest ceeboo]

Perhaps we should consider confessing a sin before we do it (say all the sincere repentance prayers and take the punishments etc. before) - that way we can just skip all the guilty feelings or concerns about who knows. If someone should catch us or asks even while committing our favorite sins we could just say with a bright happy smile , "Not to worry, it’s already taken care of."

The Traveler

Hi Traveler,

Hmmmmmm, not one of your more usefull posts ( IMHO ):)

God bless,

Carl

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability. . . .

I suspect that most Catholics approach confession with the same sincerity that LDS take sins to the Bishop. Genuine remorse and accountability TO GOD might even be enhanced with the anonymity of the confessional. How character building to do the right thing (confess) when no one is looking.

~~Just a thought!

[Over43]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Repentance involves a change of heart and sincere remorse. Catholic confession is set up so that all you have to do is confess to a guy behind a curtain and magically you're forgiven. No remorse, no accountability.

Confession to a bishop is not about shame. Any shame felt is brought about only by the sinner. A bishop is a priesthood leader and a common judge. He is there to guide and give counsel, and in very few cases proclaim someone worthy if the sin was great. Repentance is ultimately between the sinner and the Lord.

It's unfortunate that for some reason we believe that Catholics are not sincere in their desires to become better people. I doubt that any of us can make the call that a penitent Catholic who attends confessional does not mean to change their heart. As far as "being ridiculous" is concerned, that is your opinion. No remorse or accountability? For most attending Catholics I doubt that.

It is also unfortunate that some do attend a meeting with their bishop and sooner or later the cat is out of the bag. It is not necessarily the bishop himself who makes this err, but there are counselors, stake high priets, wives (not directed at Pam) etc. who often get involved. They are human, people talk. I know several people it has happened to, it's what it is.

The current system is set up to be a loving/learning experience. Shame is sometimes part of that process and part of the growing steps.

I would imagine that well over (pick a percentage) of bishops make every effort to see that the process is done appropriately.

We also need to remember that sometimes people who do the trangressing, also do their own talking. Then the info leaks, people chat, and the person who transgressed wonders "how do they know"? You talked.

O43

Edited August 10, 2008 by Over43

[Moksha]

What Traveler was doing seemed obvious to me. He was referencing the practice of purchased indulgences to counter Moksha's rather, er, interesting suggestion about adopting Catholic practices of confession.

Point well taken, Traveler.

The sale of indulgences went out of practice sometime after the Medici Popes.

Some have focused on the confessional booth rather than the practice of saying prayers of contrition and performing good deeds as a way of repenting and getting right with God. I still think this method had more to offer than a prolonged punishment, were there is a chance the penitent person will leave the Church if disfellowshipped or especially excommunicated. That seems like it would defeat the purpose of the Church being the Sheppard which cares for the flock and see each sheep as worth saving.