Answers please?

[deblldo]

Hi all,

ok so i have only posted a few times here. I have been a member of a baptist church for almost 14 years, but recentley after speaking to lds missionaries i have a big intrest in your faith. I am reading the book of mormon and other books however do not feel ready to make the commitment to join your church as i love my church dearly.

Just when i think i have reached a descion somthing happens that makes me think twice again. i was given a dvd to watch by my pastor called "dna and the book of mormon" i dont know if any of you have watched it so i wont bore you with the details just yet, but i just wondered how you would answer the claims in that dvd?

As i dont know a whole lot about about your faith yet i do not have any answers of my own to make a descion.

thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

deb

[utcowboy]

Deb,

I would find out more about DNA if I were you and make your own decision. Most of the videos floating around now have a bias to them that cloud the actual facts. So do yourself a favor and find the actual truth for yourself. Best wishes and welcome to the site.

[goofball]

I would look at this website. Might be of some help

FAIR Topical Guide: DNA and the Book of Mormon

[guitarwizard]

Just as an aside: They have actually found some DNA in early Western Hemisphere inhabitants that is linked back to the western hemisphere.

Haplogroup X (mtDNA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

That doesn't prove the Book of Mormon, but it does negate alot of the "DNA proves the BoM false" claims. We believe people have been in the western hemisphere way before the Book of Mormon stories. So to trace something from 600 BC using DNA is like shooting a target in the dark. It is a guessing game and the information can be manipulated to favor anyone.

But, it is my testimony that spiritual things cannot be understood by the natural man. If it were so, our agency would be null and void. We can know for ourselves all things by the power of prayer and the witness of the holy spirit. Ask and it shall be given you.

[BenRaines]

No where in the Book of Mormon does it state that Lehi and his family were the first to arrive in the Americas. No where does it say that the Jaredites were the first either. I believe that Lehi and his family and those that followed after them were small in numbers among the people found in the Americas. It is no suprise that after a short while those who were righteous were called Nephites and those who were unrighteous were called Lamanites. They were no longer all decendants of just Lehi and his family.

My two cents worth.

Let the spirit testify to you. Following Jesus Christ is not an intellectual pursuit but a spiritual one.

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

You said it exactly right, Ben. The "proof" of the BofM happens in the private moments between the person, the page, and God. It is a beautiful thing that all the science in the world can't touch.

[NeuroTypical]

i was given a dvd to watch by my pastor called "dna and the book of mormon" i dont know if any of you have watched it so i wont bore you with the details just yet, but i just wondered how you would answer the claims in that dvd?

Hi Deb,

I think it's important to check out the truth claims of any faith. We Mormons spin an incredible yarn about Christ visiting the Americas, an entire civilization of Jews appearing and dissapearing. Kudos to you for doing some research into the area first.

As far as that DVD, and all associated DNA-based criticisms, yes indeed we do have very good and complete responses to all the attacks. Goofball's FAIR link is a major source of our responses, here is another:

Neal A. Maxwell Institute - DNA Criticism Responses

You will find very good articles here. I'd especially recommend "The Problematic Role of DNA Testing in Unraveling Human History" by John L. Sorenson

LM

[Islander]

Hi all,

ok so i have only posted a few times here. I have been a member of a baptist church for almost 14 years, but recentley after speaking to lds missionaries i have a big intrest in your faith. I am reading the book of mormon and other books however do not feel ready to make the commitment to join your church as i love my church dearly.

Just when i think i have reached a descion somthing happens that makes me think twice again. i was given a dvd to watch by my pastor called "dna and the book of mormon" i dont know if any of you have watched it so i wont bore you with the details just yet, but i just wondered how you would answer the claims in that dvd?

As i dont know a whole lot about about your faith yet i do not have any answers of my own to make a descion.

thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

deb

Hello there and welcome to the forum

I think you should continue to read the BoM and inquire of the Lord in regards to its truthfulness. After all, you likely did not spend that much time research the origins of the Baptist church or its claims to authority either. What I am trying to say is that you must obtain a witness from the Lord thru the Spirit and that is completely based on faith in Him.

I spend very little time on the "archaeological" band wagon. At the end if our testimony of the Savior raises or fall with evidence it is no testimony at all.

Keep the faith.

[deblldo]

Hi,

thankyou all for your respones i will take a close look at the links you provided. But you are right i didnt look into the baptist church and its origins before joining i guess its just because this is a relly big descion for me and my family (not as if my husband agrees).

so thanks again its nice to know what im talking about in defence to these claims.

deb.

[rameumptom]

The gist of DNA is that it does not display all of your ancestors, only one line of them. Given the Nephites were just one small group within a larger group of peoples already here, it wouldn't surprise any of us if their DNA does not show up now.

At the same time, the Nephites were not worried about DNA. They were concerned about their cultural group continuing. The Nephites adopted into their group many others, including the Mulekites, Lamanites, Ishmaelites, Zeezrom's children, etc. The Mulekites were from the tribe of Judah, and perhaps other cultures (some suggest they crossed the ocean with Phoenicians - experts at sea travel). None of these would have had Nephite DNA. But they became Nephite through cultural adaptation and adoption.

In this sense, the Lamanites ARE among the cultural ancestors of today's American Indians.

[Guest bren1975]

Hi all,

Just when i think i have reached a descion somthing happens that makes me think twice again. i was given a dvd to watch by my pastor called "dna and the book of mormon"

I've never seen this type of behavior ever in the LDS Church. Meaning--giving any credibility to "anti" literature, be it anti-Baptist, anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon, etc.

I find promoting this type of information, offensive. If an LDS was investigating another religion, I'd give him/her literature, DVD's, etc. on the Gospel as taught in the LDS Church. I'd keep urging him/her back to the truth, and never deliberately try to discredit another religion's reputation or beliefs, in the process.

I'm sure your pastor means well, but it just bothers me.

Edited August 11, 2008 by bren1975

[rameumptom]

Have you had questions about your own religion? has your pastor been able to answer those questions sufficiently for you?

The issue isn't DNA and the Book of Mormon. The issue is: did God bring forth the Book of Mormon in our day? Did God restore His ancient Church through Joseph Smith? Those are answers that can only be adequately answered by the Holy Ghost through prayer. Your pastor doesn't have that answer, partially because he has never sought that answer. I would imagine he's never read the Book of Mormon, so he doesn't even really know what is in it. Then again, if he had, he might realize what a crock the DNA attacks are.

[deblldo]

Hi,

thanks again, yes i know what you mean about not respecting another person's belief but my pastor or church doesnt see it that way, in fact we have had lesson,s about different relgions and why they dont have the "truth". Which is why this is somthing i want to be absolutley sure about before going against what my friends ,family and church tell me.

There are some things that as a baptist i do not understand or do not agree with and the answer i mostly get is "well we wont know that until we get to heaven" which is fine if they really dont know. This is one of the things i like about your faith you have so many answer's to my questions that i honestly had never thought or heard of before, it all kinda fits together like one big puzzle.

There is just somthing about your faith that i am being drawn to even though i am very happy at my church and would have a hard time leaving.

thanks again,

deb.

[guitarwizard]

Hate to jump in this late in the game, but maybe i can help.

I remember being baptist, it wasn't that terribly long ago. I was at a youth class on Wednesday night and we were having "Why This Religion Is Going To Hell" night focusing on: Mormons. I knew a fair bit about the church at that point so i was just sitting through it and somebody looked at me and said "TJ, are you ok?" and all i could think was "No, i am not okay! Everything that is being said is a blatant lie." I wanted to get up and walk out. I wanted to tell them how everything they said was false, but i didn't have the nerve. I realized at that point that my whole church experience had been "why they are wrong" and not "why we are right." There was no answers to questions, there was no focus on what we believe, just what we didn't believe. It was very confusing. After joining the church, i am so grateful to have answers to my questions, but what is better is that i can help answer others questions. I now can go to funerals and be happy, because i know without a doubt of what comes after this life, and it isn't eternal damnation for those that don't believe in my beliefs. I will no longer be told by a preacher that a friend is going to hell unless he is baptized as a baptist. I know God is a fair judge, and I know that He wants us in heaven as much as we want to be there. And i know these things because the prophets and scriptures testify of them.

I would like to suggest some reading for you. Ezekiel 37:16-19 in the Old Testament, Matt 3:17 and John 10:16 in the New Testament, & 3 Nephi 11:1-17 and Moroni 10:4-5 in the Book of Mormon. Pray about these things, and let the spirit guide you. That little push you feel, that thing that has compelled you to study out these things, that could very well be the spirit of the Lord leading you to what is right.

[Islander]

Hi,

thanks again, yes i know what you mean about not respecting another person's belief but my pastor or church doesnt see it that way, in fact we have had lesson,s about different relgions and why they dont have the "truth". Which is why this is somthing i want to be absolutley sure about before going against what my friends ,family and church tell me.

There are some things that as a baptist i do not understand or do not agree with and the answer i mostly get is "well we wont know that until we get to heaven" which is fine if they really dont know. This is one of the things i like about your faith you have so many answer's to my questions that i honestly had never thought or heard of before, it all kinda fits together like one big puzzle.

There is just somthing about your faith that i am being drawn to even though i am very happy at my church and would have a hard time leaving.

thanks again,

deb.

Deb

The Gospel of Christ just plain and simple makes sense!!! It always has and it always will. It was men with their preconceived ideas and notions about who Gos is and what the Savior did, say, meant or not that changed everything and made it confusing for the rest of us poor people. That is one thing the Savior threw on the faces of the Pharisees and Sadducee. They did not enter by the gate and the way but shut it up as well that nobody else could with their rules and laws and empty worship.

I gather you are like the rest of us. People looking for answers and found them in the restored Gospel!!! You do not need an advanced degree in theology to realize that there are fundamental questions and until just a few days or weeks you could not find the answers. Here they are!!. Believe that God has placed these things before you and He expect you to seek confirmation from HIM thru the Holy Ghost if they are true or not.

I hope that you sincerely pray to your Heavenly Father for guidance and clarity as you seek the truth.

[bytor2112]

You said it exactly right, Ben. The "proof" of the BofM happens in the private moments between the person, the page, and God. It is a beautiful thing that all the science in the world can't touch.

Your new avatar cracks me up....I imagine your voice as Marge Simpson when I read your posts:lol:

[Misshalfway]

Your new avatar cracks me up....I imagine your voice as Marge Simpson when I read your posts:lol:

Marge Simpson???? Too funny!!! :lol:

You like the new avitar, eh?? My husband says its an amazing likeness! He is sitting alone with an ice pack. Hahahahahahaha!

[mnn727]

You know, I was checking out the LDS Church about 16 years ago, I had been reading everything I could, meeting with the missionaries and going to CHurch, yet was still not ready to commit, and I read some material that was against the LDS Church -- My thought after reading it was "thats not what WE believe" notice I said 'we' before I was ever a member. I did join and have been a member over 15 years now.

People can "prove" anything if they try hard enough, but as for the DNA "evidence" -- Where did they get Lehi and companies (the group that came with Lehi) DNA to compare? The Jews of today are only 1 tribe of Israel and in the time of Lehi and Nephi there were 12 tribes - so where are they getting the comparison samples from?

The links others gave you are great, but to me it all boils down to where are the samples of 'Lehi and companies' DNA to run a comparison?

Frankly I have always wondered why people don't preach about what they have rather than trying to tear down what others have.

Edited August 12, 2008 by mnn727

[Islander]

Some, in order to feel they are the tallest trees in the forest resort to try and cut down all the trees around them rather than growing themselves to their desire heights.

Currently we have in Israel a residue of Judah and Benjamin. Many eastern european historical converts came back to Israel in the 40's and 50's. Many of these late comers had no genetic link to Israel at all. To complicate matters, Lehi was not from Judah but Manasseh of which there is NO genetic trace anywhere in the planet to compare to. I find it of very little profit to argue these points. Most people do not understand what an acrocentric element is within a DNA branch. They forget that we know where David's temple was but we have not been able to find one single artifact from the Temple in 100 years of digging. For a place that has been populated continually for 10,000 years there is very little to show for.

So, I just decided to conserve my energy for more worthwhile tasks rather than debate the so-called DNA research.

[FernRL]

I have not seen the video you mention, but from what I understand about the DNA controversy they have determined basically four haplogroups common among today's Native Americans (using mitochondrial DNA which follows the female genealogical lines) three of which are common in Siberia, indicating a probable relationship there. Therefore tending to support the theory that the Native Americans came across the land bridge from Asia to the Americas. Really, they can't say which direction people may have traveled on the land bridge but that it was open for a few hundred years--about 13,000 years ago. That might tend to disagree with both the Bible and The Book of Mormon.

Also, I guess they compare the haplogroups with people in the Middle East today, and they don't match. That should not be really surprising, since Lehi (and Mulek) left just before the Babylonian captivity. And how many migrations of people have taken place since then?

There is also another element to consider when looking at mitochondrial DNA, being based on the mother's lineage, it is quite possible that Lehi's group alone had several haplogroups in it. What was Sariah's lineage? And we don't know if all of Ishmael's daughters were from one wife or two. What about his two married son's? What was the nationality of their wives? We simply do not know. In a patriarchal society though, the women tend to have had a more diverse heritage--captured, brought back to the husband's family from a more remote place, etc.

Anyway, I could have vastly different mitochondrial DNA than my cousins through my mother's brother, depending on who he married.

[Vort]

Really, they can't say which direction people may have traveled on the land bridge but that it was open for a few hundred years--about 13,000 years ago. That might tend to disagree with both the Bible and The Book of Mormon.

How so?

[prisonchaplain]

Deb,

It's great that you are approaching this matter with an open heart and mind, and with appropriate respect for your family and our current church family. It is true that some evangelicals (including Baptists) refuse to dialogue with LDS on this matter--preferring to just oppose. However, some have taken a different approach, and attempted to engage in friendly, but uncompromising discussions. The link below is for a book co-authored by an LDS professor and an evangelical one. I found both the tone and the information refreshing--and very approachable.

Amazon.com: How Wide the Divide?: A Mormon & an Evangelical in Conversation: Craig L. Blomberg, Stephen E. Robinson: Books

This book sticks to the basis, gives you the LDS view, the evangelical view, and then where it is that the two see agreement. It may help you as you prayerfully seek God's direction.

[kishtakaye]

Thanks PC! You are amazing. And a very good example to me. I appreciate how you have answered Deb's question without saying you should be this way or that way. I feel that it really shouldn't matter what religion you are. We should all just be nice to everyone no matter what. I'm sure that is what Our Father in heaven really wants from us. As does any parent.

Oh And Deb the best way to figure out what is true is to pray and listen for the Lord to answer. He always knows whats best. And welcome to the forum.

[Guest bren1975]

Hi,

thanks again, yes i know what you mean about not respecting another person's belief but my pastor or church doesnt see it that way, in fact we have had lesson,s about different relgions and why they dont have the "truth". Which is why this is somthing i want to be absolutley sure about before going against what my friends ,family and church tell me.

There is just somthing about your faith that i am being drawn to even though i am very happy at my church and would have a hard time leaving.

thanks again,

deb.

Hi again,

I've had numerous discussions online with Christians of various churches and I've questioned the practice of criticizing another religion to prove the validity on ones' own. Churches who produce and promote anti-(fill in the name of any church) literature and films completely baffle me. I've never seen the LDS Church do this.

If you walk into an LDS bookstore, you would not find anything negative about any other religion. You would not find a book about why the Baptists, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholics, etc., are wrong or false. You would only find books about OUR church. Books about what WE believe.

Yet when I bring this up to members of other faiths, they never seem to get it. They say we do the same thing because we claim to be the only true religion. That one statement is a HUGE insult to them. So that one statement seems to justify producing all the "anti" material. Yet, don't ALL religions believe they have the truth?

Anyway, I'd love to understand it better. Having never belonged to a church that does this (promote material that discredits another specific church), I'd not be able to put up with it now. It just seems wrong.

BTW, I appreciate your sincere posts. Thanks.

Edited August 13, 2008 by bren1975

[HiJolly]

I have not seen the video you mention, but from what I understand about the DNA controversy they have determined basically four haplogroups common among today's Native Americans (using mitochondrial DNA which follows the female genealogical lines) three of which are common in Siberia, indicating a probable relationship there. Therefore tending to support the theory that the Native Americans came across the land bridge from Asia to the Americas. Really, they can't say which direction people may have traveled on the land bridge but that it was open for a few hundred years--about 13,000 years ago. That might tend to disagree with both the Bible and The Book of Mormon.

I agree with vort on this. I don't think it disagrees with scripture, but it does certainly not match up with some beliefs of some Mormons over the past 175 years. We find a lot of that sort of thing, unfortunately.

The trouble ain’t that people are ignorant; it’s that they know

so much that ain’t so.

-- Josh Billings

HiJolly