We can become gods?

[rameumptom]

Tyto,

I think the issue would be something to be angry with IF we worshiped a litany of gods. We do not. No one has ever asked you to worship anyone but God the Father through Christ. They are the only Gods we have to worry about. Ever.

The concept of there being various gods in the heavens, is an ancient teaching. But as mentioned before, we take milk before meat.

The issue isn't whether there are many gods, of whom you do not have to worry yourself about, but whether Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of God. If that is the case, then the later teachings, though shocking in some ways, should be a continuation of your learning. We baptized people because they wish to follow Christ and worship the Father, not because they have received a PhD in doctrine.

When I joined at 16 years of age, I didn't know this, either. I joined because the Spirit witnessed to me of the truth of the gospel. Later, when new concepts were taught to me, I learned to accept them, because the foundation was established firmly by personal revelation.

No one "lied" to you. They taught you the principle important issues. We do not worship but one God, the Father, and his Son, Jesus Christ. It is therefore immaterial about other gods that may or may not dwell in the heavens with them.

[KristofferUmfrey]

Tyto,

I think the issue would be something to be angry with IF we worshiped a litany of gods. We do not. No one has ever asked you to worship anyone but God the Father through Christ. They are the only Gods we have to worry about. Ever.

The concept of there being various gods in the heavens, is an ancient teaching. But as mentioned before, we take milk before meat.

The issue isn't whether there are many gods, of whom you do not have to worry yourself about, but whether Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of God. If that is the case, then the later teachings, though shocking in some ways, should be a continuation of your learning. We baptized people because they wish to follow Christ and worship the Father, not because they have received a PhD in doctrine.

When I joined at 16 years of age, I didn't know this, either. I joined because the Spirit witnessed to me of the truth of the gospel. Later, when new concepts were taught to me, I learned to accept them, because the foundation was established firmly by personal revelation.

No one "lied" to you. They taught you the principle important issues. We do not worship but one God, the Father, and his Son, Jesus Christ. It is therefore immaterial about other gods that may or may not dwell in the heavens with them.

Apparently the teaching came up during his discussions and the missionaries denied it. That is a lie, no matter how you look at it.

[Hemidakota]

Kris. I would not venture and call it a lie when many of our children do not have this knowledge but teach what is given and there own testimony on what they do know. I would call it ignorance.

Even with Judaism, when you compare some of the writings of Abraham visiting the temple in 9th AB, it talks about Abraham taking GOD's hand. This is no different than Joseph Smith's king follett sermon of explaining the cororeality of God. Would you call the local Rabbi a liar when he declares that God has no human form? Ignorance would be a better term here.

"The holy one blessed be he took him by the hands and walked him back and forth." Lamentations Rabbah 35:1:1

Edited December 24, 2008 by Hemidakota

[KristofferUmfrey]

Kris. I would not venture and call it a lie when many of our children do not have this knowledge but teach what is given and there own testimony on what they do know. I would call it ignorance.

Even with Judaism, when you compare some of the writings of Abraham visiting the temple in 9th AB, it talks about Abraham taking GOD's hand. This is no different than Joseph Smith's king follett sermon of explaining the cororeality of God. Would you the local Rabbi he was liar when he declares that God has no human form? Ignorance would be a better term here.

When you are an adult and making such an important decision like changing churches, and you specifically ask a question and are given a misleading answer... it is a lie. Do you not have enough faith in the investigators to give them all the information when they ask?

[Hemidakota]

"Do you know what GOD looks like? Well? Tell me....I am investigating here."

See my point?

[KristofferUmfrey]

"Do you know what GOD looks like? Well? Tell me....I am investigating here."

See my point?

That is completely different, and you know it.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation. Unreal.

[Hemidakota]

It is the same logical thinking as was given earlier. Not to forget, what was also stated by members here, a child sucks milk first before attempting real food. The line of questioning would be given as it is stated to all those who are investigating the church. Later, through your own research, study, trials of refiner’s fire, I hope the Holy Ghost would impart that information but that is not always the case, even with General Authorities.

Then ask the missionaries and see what answer is given to my line of question. Or perhaps, members on this forum here....you find that less than one percent can answer it truthfully. Even though, one may know with surety, most cannot answer this question. Nor do I expect they should answer it.

As I do not expect missionaries even to fathom what is beyond our Godhead from church teaching materials and even their own testimonies are able to answer this question.

[john doe]

I don't think Tytto was lied to. I believe he's straining at a gnat. We worship one God (large "G"), and He is the only one we are to concern ourselves with. The fact that we may believe in eternal progression and that it may be possible for His children to become gods (small "G"), is a completely different concept.

[KristofferUmfrey]

I don't think Tytto was lied to. I believe he's straining at a gnat. We worship one God (large "G"), and He is the only one we are to concern ourselves with. The fact that we may believe in eternal progression and that it may be possible for His children to become gods (small "G"), is a completely different concept.

He was told you believe there are no other Gods, when the topic came up. That is not true. Though you only worship one God, you very definitely believe there are other Gods out there.

[bmy-]

When you are an adult and making such an important decision like changing churches, and you specifically ask a question and are given a misleading answer... it is a lie. Do you not have enough faith in the investigators to give them all the information when they ask?

I'm a recent convert.. and a few missionaries that I was introduced to were not learned very well. They didn't have the answers to the tough questions.. they did excel at the plan of salvation though

Let's not judge all missionaries due to ones ignorance or mistake.

[MrNirom]

Even missionaries are not perfect. If one did lie... that does not in anyway mean that all lie

and that the Church did anything wrong. If it did happen.. the missionary in question has the

right to defend himself and tell his side of the story.

[Traveler]

He was told you believe there are no other Gods, when the topic came up. That is not true. Though you only worship one God, you very definitely believe there are other Gods out there.

If you believe the Bible then you know that there are g-ds, some of which oppose and fight against G-d. (See 2Cor 4:4)

It is also interesting to me that the reason Jesus was considered to be worthy of death was because he believed that a man could become a g-d.

(See John 10:33-35)

But there is no reason for much concern - No one will be forced to become a g-d in the Kingdom of heaven.

The Traveler

[john doe]

He was told you believe there are no other Gods, when the topic came up. That is not true. Though you only worship one God, you very definitely believe there are other Gods out there.

That's his side of the story. We don't know for sure what went on. When people become disenchanted with the church, they typically twist things to make it look like they were lied to when in fact they misunderstood the answer or were misunderstood in the question. You don't know for a fact that he was lied to, all you know is Tytto's side of the story. That may not be the way things really happened.

[FinGirl87]

I'm not talking about worshipping multiple gods, I'm talking about the belief that there are multiple gods, even if you worship only one.

And when I joined, I was told that paid tiths will not be returned. (This is for the one who said I can ask them to be returned.)

I think there is only one god, that's why it is so hard for me to believe that there are others too, even if not worshipped. And I say it again, feelings should not be trusted, think of all the people who belong to cults and think they are true, and are happier than ever. Note: I'm not saying that LDS is a cult.

And for the one who said I can ask my name to be removed, I have already done that. It's been removed and I reassigned, I'm not part of the LDS church anymore.

However I still believe that otherwise the church was awesome. All the people were wonderful and caring, it felt to me like we were just a one big family. That's why this makes me so sad. Part of me wishes that I wouldn't have found out about this doctrine. I was only a member for like 3-4 months, but it still feels that I lost something very dear. Almost as if someone close to me died.

[rameumptom]

Tytto,

Perhaps the day will come when you will do an actual study of the ancient belief that we can become as God is. Both the Bible and early Christian authors all taught it. Even the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches believe in a form of divinization, although different.

Yes, it isn't an easy doctrine to accept sometimes. But it is true. We are God's children, and he wants us to grow up to be like him. How strange is that?

[Traveler]

I'm not talking about worshipping multiple gods, I'm talking about the belief that there are multiple gods, even if you worship only one.

......

I think there is only one god, that's why it is so hard for me to believe that there are others too, even if not worshipped. And I say it again, feelings should not be trusted, think of all the people who belong to cults and think they are true, and are happier than ever. Note: I'm not saying that LDS is a cult.

.......

Are you aware that the Bible indicates there are multiple g-ds? Prior to the fall of Adam all references to G-d are plural. After the fall of Adam all references to G-d use the ancient Hebrew word "ehad". The translation into English as a singular G-d is incorrect - The ancient Hebrew for a single individual is "yhead" which is never, never used in reference to G-d.

Ehad is used to speak of "oneness" or unity for plural individuals; for example ehad is used for plural individuals involved in covenants such as marriage.

The Traveler

[Interested]

Elohim... yes.

The plural name for God. But that can still be a Trinatarian teaching. One Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient God can be Elohim, and be the plural meaning for the word and still be one God.

Omnipresent REALLY being an important word

[Traveler]

Elohim... yes.

The plural name for God. But that can still be a Trinatarian teaching. One Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient God can be Elohim, and be the plural meaning for the word and still be one God.

Omnipresent REALLY being an important word

Interesting that not one word you have used to describe G-d was ever used by an ancient prophet called by G-d to teach the covenant followers of G-d. I assume that you believe the Bible scriptures are woefully inadequate for teaching mankind about such things as G-d?

The Traveler

[Interested]

"If I descend into the depths of Hell you are there." Is written in the Old Testament. The same passage mentions that God is everywhere, in so many words.

[Traveler]

"If I descend into the depths of Hell you are there." Is written in the Old Testament. The same passage mentions that God is everywhere, in so many words.

Dear Friend: It is easy to interpret scripture to what we want to understand - in the days of Jesus the Christ this was done by the Pharisees and Scribes. If you wish to rely on scripture why not quote the scripture? But there is even more – for example can you give me one example of anyone involved in the ancient scriptures that would spell out completely any term that referenced G-d?

I am interested in why some will add their thoughts to scripture “in so many words”. Does this mean that you disagree with the modern translations of biblical scripture?

I would also point out that being able to go anywhere anytime and being able to influence anyone anywhere is different than actually being everywhere at once. Following the resurrection of Jesus he came and left his apostles and others that testified of the truth of his resurrection. We are also told that someday he will return. He cannot return if he is always still here.

The Traveler

[Interested]

If

you wish to rely on scripture why not quote the scripture? But there is even

more – for example can you give me one example of anyone involved in the ancient

scriptures that would spell out completely any term that referenced G-d?

Simple. I can see from my repetitive lack of action in reading the scriptures that you have a point to where it would seem that I am being lazy and just putting my own spin on things. But I have to rhetorically respond Socratically.

Why do you think that just because I may not be using the proper method of debate that I am necessarily incorrect?

He cannot return if he is always still here.

Yes, he can. As contradictory as it sounds there is an Earthly explanation for his return. And it is, that Jesus'es ressurected body is in Heaven, and his physical body, known as Joshua, will return to the planet's stratosphere.(Or so I have come to understand it.) His spirit, has always been God.

[Traveler]

Simple. I can see from my repetitive lack of action in reading the scriptures that you have a point to where it would seem that I am being lazy and just putting my own spin on things. But I have to rhetorically respond Socratically.

Why do you think that just because I may not be using the proper method of debate that I am necessarily incorrect?

Yes, he can. As contradictory as it sounds there is an Earthly explanation for his return. And it is, that Jesus'es ressurected body is in Heaven, and his physical body, known as Joshua, will return to the planet's stratosphere.(Or so I have come to understand it.) His spirit, has always been God.

Thanks for your response - we may not differ as much as it sometimes appears. Often in religious discussions I find I do not differ as much thinking as that viewpoints and definitions may vary.

When trying to find common ground I personally prefer to focus on terms, attitudes and phrases used in ancient scripture.

So to clarify – do you consider someone to be in the presents of G-d while they are conversing with an angel sent by him? Also do you consider someone to be in the presents of their spouse while they may be physically apart but remembering their love for each other?

The Traveler

[Interested]

So to clarify – do you consider someone to be in the presents of G-d while they are conversing with an angel sent by him? Also do you consider someone to be in the presents of their spouse while they may be physically apart but remembering their love for each other?

Only in specific cases. Michael the Archangel, the Angel of the Lord is always in the presence of the Lord, so where he is, God is. And yes, spiritually, I believe that a man is with his wife while they are seperated, but that is just an opinion of mine.

[rameumptom]

Yes, he can. As contradictory as it sounds there is an Earthly explanation for his return. And it is, that Jesus'es ressurected body is in Heaven, and his physical body, known as Joshua, will return to the planet's stratosphere.(Or so I have come to understand it.) His spirit, has always been God.

Wow, you are going to use Gnostic teachings to support your concept? Incredible!

How does this contradict the Trinity? In all ways, as there is only one God with three personas. The Council of Chalcedon would totally be shocked at this concept of yours!

Addendum: This also contradicts the apostle John's epistles. Didn't he say that those who claim Jesus was not resurrected with a physical body are anti-Christ? How do you tie a separate Joshua/physical body and a Christ/Trinity with being one resurrected being as John requires?

Edited December 29, 2008 by rameumptom

[Interested]

This is not Gnostic Teachings. This is the truth. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, what do you think happened to his body? Do you think it burned in the atmosphere?

Edit- Joshua = Yeshua

They aren't seperate beings.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Interested