When, and Why?? Ward Boundaries

[rockwoodchev]

Wow... This is one that I'm sure all of us have experienced.

I have lived this for the past 5 years. For the 1st year, I was YM Pres and the bishop and I argued about policy things all the time. He wanted me to only ask men to drive on campouts that would not turn in a gas receipt. He gave the majority of the ward funding to the activities committee and the YM got about $200 for the year. The YM got $50 for the year and this did not settle well. Finally when he had a birthday party for his 16 year old son, he had all the Teachers and Priests over and they watched the R rated Excorcist movie with the Bishop making the popcorn.

He "fired" me from my calling. He just showed up at my house and demanded my files. Told me not to come to mutual the following night and then held a meeting with the rest of the leadership telling them I had been released.

I was in for a TR interview a few weeks later with the Stake President and was asked about how my calling was going. They had heard about the Excorcist experience and said something that blew me away. This is almost word for word: "We don't know why he was called to be Bishop either. But, there is nothing we can do till his 5 years are up. Hopefully, he will learn to be a better Bishop"

When he was called to be Bishop his wife was speaking and said "I don't know why he was called to be Bishop. He has very little compassion for others".

When he was released a few months ago she said: "This has been an aweful experience"

He never did learn.

[goofball]

Wow that is a crazy story. Unfortunately for him he will be accountable for what he did not do and should have done.

[john doe]

I have a hard time believing that a stake president can't do anything about a bad bishop until their 'time' is up. There are lots of things they can do about a bad bishop. First off, they can release him at any time, for any or no reason given. If your stake president really said and thinks that, he is sadly mistaken.

[pam]

I also have a hard time with that story as well. A Stake President has a stewardship over all the wards in his stake including the callings of Bishops. If there are issues that a Bishop is not wisely using his stewardship...a Stake President can for sure do something about it. Not wait the 5 years.

I seriously have a problem believing this story.

[rockwoodchev]

Not sure how to convince you of the truth. Do you need names and e-mails of people you can ask about it?

Lets do this one. A friend of mine in the high council saw to it that after I was fired from the ward calling was able to use some direction and had me called as an early morning seminary teacher.

If I give you the username and password to the CES Teacher web site, would you be convinced? I can put them in the next post if you need them. The website is: https://www.ldsces.org/emplogin/LoginLdsAccount.aspx Otherwise, I suppose I could show you my Temple Recommend which might validate my honesty.

I'm not offended that you hard time believing me. You don't know who I am.

Edited October 1, 2008 by rockwoodchev

[pam]

For one thing..you aren't "fired" from a calling...You are "released."

[pam]

Another thing...having a temple recommend doesn't show proof of honesty. I've known many people over my lifetime that I know got a temple recommend dishonestly. Not saying that applies to you...just not a good example in all cases.

[rockwoodchev]

Bishop will normally show up for a release and say "Brother so and so, thank you for your service, we are extending a release to you as (some calling) as we need you to accept a calling from the Lord to serve as a nursery leader"

That is how it is meant to happen.

In this case, the Bishop showed up at my house, demanded my manuals and then told me not to show up at mutual, that I wasn't wanted there, and to cease any contact with any of the other leaders in the YM at the time. No.. that wasn't a release. I've been called and released many times. This was getting "fired". I was there, my wife was listening in disbelief.

[Palerider]

I wonder where the 5yrs for time of service came from.....Elder Oaks told me once there was no max amount of time a Bishop could serve....:).....trust me there are alot of things a Stake President can do with a "bad" Bishop.

[Palerider]

Another thing...having a temple recommend doesn't show proof of honesty. I've known many people over my lifetime that I know got a temple recommend dishonestly. Not saying that applies to you...just not a good example in all cases.

Ditto to that.....I could go on about this....but I won't.

[Hemidakota]

Stake President has the authority removing any Bishop from his stewardship. Before he will do that, he will confide with the ward HC and his own councilors with an amicable answer in seeking guidance from the Godhead. I do suspect that the Savior allowed this Bishop to continue for a wise purpose.

[Misshalfway]

When my H was in the bishopric, we were told that the 5 or 6 year term started because bishops were getting burned out from longer terms. But I remember hearing from the Stake that the church would like to extend the terms of bishops to 10 years, IF some of the responsibility can be absorbed by the EQP and HPGL.

[Hemidakota]

Church guidance is still five-years for Bishops. Stake Presidents is eight years. 2nd thru 8th Quorum of the Seventies is still five-years.

[Canuck Mormon]

Church guidance is still five-years for Bishops. Stake Presidents is eight years. 2nd thru 8th Quorum of the Seventies is still five-years.

I would like to think that those are guidelines. If a bishop is not manifesting his calling correctly or using unrighteous dominion over his congregation, then I would hope that he would be released sooner.

The story does seem quite far fetched, but whatever.

[john doe]

Exactly, they are guidelines. I've known of bishops who have been released after 6 months, I've known of bishops who have served for 7-8 years. There are no 'terms'. If a stake president actually thinks that he can't do anything about a bad bishop after he has been called, he is wrong and is in need of training himself. Now, back to the topic, which is how ward boundaries are determined.

[Canuck Mormon]

IIRC ~ It has to do with the number of High Preists in a geographic area. I could be wrong on this, but I seem to remember my father telling me this.

[Hemidakota]

The only position in the church where is there no timetable is a Prophet, Quorum of Twelve, and the First Quorum of Seventies. All othe rest are timetabled for a reason.

I have seen a Bishop who served his last calling for ten-years and previously served that same calling throughout his life four times.

[mnn727]

You don't get 'fired' from a calling, you get 'released' And a Bishop may be counseld and or released at any time, 5 years is the guideline, but its not set in stone. My opinion is, if true, then the Stake President was in serious need of training as was the Bishop.

Edited October 1, 2008 by mnn727

[rameumptom]

Most of the people I know that when they decide to pick a church family, they stick with it, even if the church changes locations. A pentecostal church I used to attend when my kids were very young, eventually built themselves a new, bigger building and for many members it was a longer drive, but they still attend, to this very day. Non-LDS church members are not as different as you might think to LDS church members.

But it is very different. You are missing the point.

Had all the members of the Pentecostal church had to relocate 20 miles away from the church building for some reason (flooding, etc), they could still attend it, no problem.

You move 20 miles away from your ward, and you will probably be in another ward's boundaries and expected to attend there.

If a pentecostal church changes its pastor, and the member do not like the pastor, they can either change out the pastor or attend another church of their choice. Completely different from LDS geographical requirements for a unit.

[Maya]

As a ward in Finland was delt in two the boundaries were taken so that my best friend ended up in the other ward and I in the other. It tok me 3-5 minutes to walk to her, but her husband was the bishop in the ward, so they had to deal it that way. For me it had been closer to go to the same with her.

[Palerider]

The first time I served as a Bishop it was only for 3yrs...was released due to a boundary change.....the second time I served it was for a little over 7 and a half years. Just 3 yrs ago our Stake Pres was released. Elder Oaks from the 12 was the Presiding authority. When I was interviewed by him he asked me how long I have been serving. At that time it was over 5 yrs. He laughed and said ...do you know there is no max amount of time a Bishop serves. He also laughed and told me there is a min amount of time and thats 5yrs. He also told me if one gets released before 5 they would like to know why. I enjoyed serving the second time more that the first. I also know I could get called a third time. I hope not because I think more need to be called so they can have the expierence of that calling....getting all complaints, any problem has to be resolved right now, its all your fault why my kids don't attend church or my spouse or why the whole family doesn't attend. I could go on but I will stop.

[Maureen]

If a pentecostal church changes its pastor, and the member do not like the pastor, they can either change out the pastor or attend another church of their choice. Completely different from LDS geographical requirements for a unit.

I'm not absolutely sure but I believe some congregations have input into who they want as their pastor before one is chosen. PC would probably know better how it works.

M.

[Palerider]

I'm not absolutely sure but I believe some congregations have input into who they want as their pastor before one is chosen. PC would probably know better how it works.

M.

a friend of mine told me there is a comm and they go thru applications and do have some input...

[rameumptom]

Most Protestant churches do a committee and have input on selecting a pastor. This is very different from the LDS process.

The Stake Presidency will call in several of the high priests and some elders from a ward to interview them. They will determine their worthiness, and question them concerning the role of bishop. They may ask them who they feel would make a good bishop, etc.

Then the presidency prays about it, selecting the individual the Spirit confirms to them. The name for the new bishop is sent to the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric for final consideration. This is almost always approved. When the stake presidency receive the response back, they call the person in and call them as bishop. He is asked to prayerfully select his counselors, with their approval.

On the Sunday the change over occurs, the stake presidency will go to the ward, release the former bishopric, and then provide the names of the new bishopric for a sustaining vote. Afterward, the bishopric is ordained to their calling.

[mnn727]

The Protestant Church I grew up in changed Pastors when I was a teen. The Church Elders (different than our Elders) interviewed a number of candidates and chose 4 applicants and invited them to speak 1 Sunday each. After that each adult member got a ballot and voted for who they wanted as the new Pastor.