Temple vs. Non-Temple Wedding

[justme78]

Ok, I know that by the title, there's an obvious answer that everyone is going to spew out. Before you do...I need to clarify something. I'm not asking which one I should do. I need help in dealing with the decision.

My fiance and I have prayed about it, and know that we should not get married in the temple right away. I know that's difficult for a LOT of people to understand, because many people cannot fathom that God would tell us NOT to do what we're supposed to. To make a long story short, he and I have both been through the temple before yet we both have a few things to work through before we can go back. I'm not talking issues with morality or anything that will take a year to work through...but we both need to get back to regular attendance and paying tithing in order to get to where we can go through. He went to talk with his bishop about it all and had a HORRIBLE experience. Rather than getting help and advice, he was told how dysfunctional his family is and that he needs to get them to come to church. He finally got to his questions, and the bishop told him to work on everything and come back at the end of the year and "we'll see" then. Now..."We'll see" isn't very definitive. This means that we don't really know what would happen then, and we can't really set a date until after they talk then.

Time can be a worry. He's 33 and has been married twice, and I'm 30 and have never been married but have had issues with morality in the past. We both know that we need to just get married and start our lives together. We know that together we have a better chance of working through what we need, as we both have the same goals. We know what we want and nothing will get in our way. We are planning on getting sealed on our 1st anniversary, and I don't even remotely worry about that not happening.

The problem with this, is that I grew up in an *extremely* strict LDS household. I brought up even the possibility of a non-temple wedding with my mom, and the discussion ended with us both in tears and with my fiance coming to get me so that I could get out of the house. How do I face this? About half of my family will accept that this is the answer that I received when I prayed about it, and the other half will tell me that it's not possible for God to tell us to go against what we should do. I tried explaining to my mom just the moral struggles alone, and how I would rather have it be my choice than to try to wait, have a wedding end up being 6 months down the road then something happening to make it so that we can't get married in the temple anyway. Her answer to that? "Just don't allow yourself to be put in that position."

How do I get her to see that it IS possible to receive an answer like this, and that it isn't always about "Just don't allow yourself to be put in that position"? Never in my life did I think that I would have to face a situation like this. She kept trying to to tell me about how she and my dad were engaged for 10 months, and they did it. She doesn't see the difference between the 2 situations (she did the typical LDS "married at 20" after deciding that she would marry the next worthy person to propose to her, I'm 30 and dated my fiance 4 years ago until we stopped for a while because he wasn't ready for a relationship. We've been friends since, and are beyond completely in love). She also brought up the fact that I have 22 nieces and nephews who all look up to me, and what kind of example would I be setting. *sigh* Like I wasn't worried enough about that on my own.

Sorry for the rambling. I discussed the possibility with her earlier this week...and it was today that he and I discussed it after we had individually prayed about it and knew what we should do. I can't stand the thought of disappointing my family, but at the same time, I've never felt happier and a decision has never felt so right. Some of my brothers and sisters are SO supportive, and others are having a difficult enough time letting me go...I can't imagine how much worse it will be when I "break the news".

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

1 Nephi 3: 7

Do what the Spirit is telling you. If you're recieving revelation that tells you that perhaps right now is not the best time to be married in the temple. If it's true, which you say it is, and I believe you are right, then Heavenly Father will prepare the way for the right path.

In another post I said that a temple marriage isn't necessarily a celestial one. The first is immediate, and opens a doorway of possibilities. The second is a continuing process, it is the one that truly binds one spouse to another?

My sugesstion? While waiting for the temple marriage you can start working on the celestial one right away.

I hope this advice has been useful. I'm not sure if it is considering the fact that I only recently turned 18 and am as of this moment, not married.

[FunkyTown]

I think most of this lies in how you approached your mother. "I prayed and was told not to have a temple wedding" in an extremely LDS household is probably not the best way of going about it.

This would result in her getting defensive, you getting defensive and none of you working together. Your best bet, when you had spoken, would have been to approach her humbly and say "I intend to do everything I can to be sealed in the temple to (insert fiance's name here). I have approached the Bishop and, while there are things I must do before we can be sealed, I intend to do them. In the meantime, I am going to be married. I love her and will do everything so we can be together forever, and I'm sorry for my past. Can I have your blessing?"

Now, what you want to do is phone her up and apologize, to prepare to hear her pain from what has happened in your past. Yes, it will be painful - That's okay. She needs to get things off her chest. Sometimes, we have to let people vent. Do not vent back at her - She needs to say this. Be prepared to hug her and tell her it will be all right and you are doing your best to repent. If you get defensive, she will not hear "I am repentant." and, instead, will hear "Lalalala I don't want to hear what you have to say"

[justme78]

The moral issues were dealt with years ago, so thankfully they have nothing to do with my worthiness now. The issues we're dealing with now are simply church attendance and tithing. In her mind...this means we should be able to be married within 6 months, so it shouldn't be an issue as that's a "reasonable engagement time."

I'm worried because once moral issues have been a factor (and especially with him having the experiences while married) it would only take 1 moment of weakness for things to get messed up. I discussed this with her already, and it came back to "Just don't put yourself in that situation." Moments of weakness are called that for a reason. In that moment, you will LOOK for the situation. I wish I could say that we are both strong enough to "be good" for that long...but I can't guarantee that. I don't even know if that is the reason we're being told to get married now. It has more to do with getting started on our life together.

Either way, I hadn't told my mom anything definite yet. I basically made a comment about the way his bishop went off about his family, and mentioned that if that's what he's going to have to deal with...maybe we'll just get married civilly first. I said it half jokingly even, and it turned into this big emotional issue. It was bad enough that when he and I went to St. George this weekend for him to meet my brother's family, my mom called my brother and told him that he was responsible to make sure that we didn't run off to Vegas to get married *laugh*. She knows that a temple sealing is the plan. She just thinks that temple wedding first is THE ONLY way, and she cares too much about appearances. I mean...what will her brothers and sisters and all of the neighbors think?!?

Letting my mom in on anything that happened years ago would be a bad bad bad move.

[Maya]

Hi just me... yes you do have a problem... hard fact:

1. You wait and marry in the Temple after wome 6 months and feel SOOOO proud of yourselves! And you sure have reason to! The question to ask one an other is: Can you respect the other so much, that you can allow this to happen?? THINK how happy you would be. This would also give you time to BE SURE! You neeses would look even more up to you, your mother would be soooo proud and happy aso...

2. You marry but not in Temple first. Some of your family feels sad, if not hurt. You may meet with the possibility that someone dont even want to be present (cant handle it, that persone problem really)... There may be someone whos "bobole" is going to break. Maybe you get new issues and dont get married in the Temple ay all or you do get married in the Temple a few years later. But there will be some sad faces in a happy party. You need to understand the consiquenses.

3. You elope... . Might be a good idea, save the party to Temple marriage.

What ever you do, decide today that you will never devorce, no matter what. Was not that what marriage is about: good times as well as the bad ones!

A year of your life is not a long time.... but the feelings can last forever and if you do wrong the consiquences can last for ever.

Good luck with the decition.

[Jbs2763]

I read something differnt into this....he's 33 with 2 failed marriages, you said you have been dating him for 4 years, that means he'd had 2 strikes by 29, and yadda yadda yadda....

i would be more concerned why this dude sucks at marriage, what were the root causes of his divorces, was there infididelity? too many fights about ______, etc etc etc

as another LDS never married around 30..i understand the social pressure in the church...but there ain't no need to just be a statistic

maybe you should fast and pray about OTHER things, and accept what might not be the happy answer

sorry to be the silly goose to tinkle in your lucky charms.... but i read between the lines

[SundaeSarah]

you said that your issues now are going to church and paying tithing. What is stopping you from those? That is surely an issue now. As a long time single before I got married (38) let me say that after you get married there are many more things that will come up that will make it harder to go to church every Sunday 'just this once we'll do this instead of going to church...' Paying a tithe is easier to do too when it's just your income. Being married seems to have many more places for the money to go. I would say you both need to establish your basic habits of going to your meetings and tithing before you get married. And you mentioned that his moral issues happened when he was married.........boy oh boy, would I be leary of that. It seems that anyone that can rationalize cheating on his spouse has more to work on that just an oops moment. I agree with those that said that waiting 6 months and doing those things that will make you Temple worthy will be a very worthy goal and well worth the challenge of being sure and marrying in His holy temple.

JMO

[NeuroTypical]

About half of my family will accept that this is the answer that I received when I prayed about it, and the other half will tell me that it's not possible for God to tell us to go against what we should do.

Part of being a grown up, mature adult, is making your own choices about your life. That is true even in the face of criticism - even from your parents.

So, IF God's plan for you really is to get married now, and sealed later, IF you truly are following His path (instead of a path directed by hormones or desperation or desire to rebel or whatever), then you should follow His path.

How do I get [my mom] to see that it IS possible to receive an answer like this

You may never get her to see that. Again, part of being all grown up, is living your life based on the principles you hold dear, even in the face of criticism.

In other words, assuming you are right, if you can't accept your mom's position and move on with your plans, you're not ready to be married.

LM

[Wingnut]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here by people responding to the OP.

• He's 33 and has been married twice already -- this should be a red flag and an area of serious reflection on your part
• He's already broken up with you at least once because he's "not ready for a relationship"
• You can't ever satisfy everyone, and you need to live your own life and do it for YOU, not for your parents (or siblings, or nieces and nephews)

I also agree with the OP in many areas. Yes, I think it is certainly possible for you to get an answer to prayer that goes against the norm. As a scriptural example, look at when the Lord delivered Laban into Nephi's hands. You said "Never in my life did I think that I would have to face a situation like this." Nephi said "Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him." Because the Lord had a specific purpose to accomplish, he gave a commandment to the contrary of what Nephi had been taught. Throughout the scriptures there are examples of seemingly-conflicting teachings occasionally being given because of different circumstances. And surely the Lord's plan for me is not the same as it is for you.

Someone suggested that maybe you should just elope. If you have considered each of the above items (and any other red flags you may have), and still feel you and he should marry, then eloping might be the best way to do it. Tell the family later and do it in a spirit of working toward temple marriage. I have family members who have done this (although it wasn't because they thought that our family wouldn't approve...they just did it), and they were sealed last month, 17 months to the day after their civil marriage. Each had been married once previously, each had at least one child from the previous marriage, and both are very happy (and they have a child together now).

One final note: someone mentioned that it is easier to be lazy (with church attendance and tithing, etc.) after you are married and have someone to feed the laziness. I do agree with that, but I know that the opposite is also true. It can be easier to achieve goals when you are working specifically and closely with another person. Newlyweds tend to gain more weight together, but studies have also shown that weight loss is more successful when you work out with another person instead of by yourself.

[justme78]

I was trying to not write a novel before, so I summarized a lot :-)

The red flags have all been addressed. He is just as "afraid" of divorce as I am. Divorce for us is *not* an option. In both situations, his wives left him. The first was because he wanted to start going to church, and wanted her to stop dating other people (they got married really young...she was 15...and she blamed him for dragging her into a marriage so young, so she started dating). Even with the cheating, he wouldn't leave her. She ended up leaving him because of the church thing.

His second marriage, he decided he wanted the exact opposite of his first wife. He set out looking for the MOST Molly girl he could find. He found her. She turned over magazines in the grocery store line so that he wouldn't look at the "immodest girls", she elbowed him hard if he didn't turn his head *immediately* when someone dressed immodestly came on tv, and he was only "allowed" to watch the BYU education channel and KBYU along with 1 or 2 other "pre-approved" shows. Even with all of this, he planned to stay with her forever. She used his history with his first wife against him (allowing his wife to date, among other things). She knew about it all before they got married, yet after they got married she realized she couldn't handle those things. She left him after only being married for 6 months, and did not even tell him when their daughter was born (that's a whole different issue).

When we dated 4 years ago...his 2nd divorce was pretty fresh. He knew he loved me, but he was SO afraid because of how he jumped into the 2nd marriage. He refused to do that again because he wanted things to last. He does NOT believe in divorce, and he was dealing with the pain that his 2 prior wives did. That is why we stopped dating, but remained friends. He's been trying to heal himself and get to where he felt ready for a relationship. As soon as he realized he was ready, he was trying to get me to go out with him again. I wouldn't because of what happened before. I finally gave in, and I knew immediately that things were different, and we haven't looked back. I could go into more detail about the difference, but it's not important and it would make this story even longer :-)

I'm definitely not getting married for the sake of getting married and not being single anymore. If I were going to do that, I would have gotten married a long time ago (I've been asked a few times, and it has *never* been right until now). We're not being ruled by hormones, that stuff is all definitely under control. With the possibility of having a weak moment I was presenting just 1 of the possibilities I have come up with for why we would get the answer that we did.

Again...this was NOT a question of whether or not to get married in the temple first. We've prayed about it and there's no question that we're supposed to start our life together now. I was more looking for advice on how to present that to my family who will not understand.

We discussed the eloping thing. He can't do that to his family (that's what he did with his 2nd wife). Luckily, I'm not worried about his family. They are so open and caring and supportive that they'll support whatever we decide. They all love me and welcome me completely. It's my family that is more judgmental and less accepting. Again, half of them will be accepting. They're so happy to see how happy I am that they'll accept anything.

The issues with going to church and paying tithing really have gone hand in hand for a while. I forgot that I mentioned it in my introduction post but not here. It wasn't a matter of laziness, it was a matter of my self worth being called into question every week. I've had issues going to church by myself for a while. I feel *so* out of place alone because everything is all about families. I left church every week feeling like there was something wrong with me. Tithing goes along with that, because I would pay tithing while I was at church. Since I wasn't there, I wasn't paying. It was about the same for him, but more to do with being offended by his bishop. Now, he knows that the gospel being true and that the people in the church are not perfect...but he's not perfect either (and I don't expect him to be, as I'm not either).

So anyway, to make a long story longer...red flags have been addressed. This was all about how to deal with my family and hopefully help them to not be as judgmental. We both prayed on our own

and got the same answer.

(What's interesting is that I came up with the same reference to Nephi slaying Laban when I was first trying to come up with how to tell my family about getting the answer that I did).

Oh, and we've decided already that we are setting a date and moving forward. We both know we're supposed to get things going now, and we can't deny that. I was just hoping for any advice that might alleviate the contention that I know is coming. I've already been praying for hearts to soften, and for the Lord to help them feel what we already have.

Edited October 6, 2008 by justme78

[Canuck Mormon]

Here's my advice, and it might seem a bit harsh.

You're 30 years old, an adult. You can make your own decisions. Get married civilly if that's what you feel you must. Your family will get over it. If they don't like it, they don't have to be there, although I'm sure you would want them to be. It's not your families decision to marry it's yours.

I apologize for the harshness, but I will not withdraw the advise.

[Wingnut]

I tend to agree with Canuck Mormon on the "how" issue.

[justme78]

Not harsh at all :-) That's exactly how we came to the decision to just follow through and get it done. I have always been SO close with my family, that they know exactly how to get to me. I know I need to just be an adult and push through...and I know that time heals all wounds. I'm grateful that his family is so supportive and excited for us either way, so we won't be alone by any means. I've just always been the kind of person where disappointing people is a worse punishment for anything I ever did wrong than any of the other consequences. It's silly.

Thank you guys for the advice, though. I'm planning on allowing my mom to be a part of the planning and everything as much as possible before telling her. I don't want her to regret not being a part of the planning process.

[Wingnut]

I might recommend that you and your fiance tell your family together, that he be there with you. It may be helpful to work out a "signal" beforehand...if you are getting too worked up, or abotu to burst or something like that, have him put his hand on your shoulder to signal you to stop and take a deep breath. Something like that. Good luck.

[Britentj]

The two marriages could be an issue until you realize why they ended. The family being non supportive is a huge issue. Take this little piece of advise for what it is worth,, Someone said that an eternal marriage does not make a celestial marriage! and I agree, I grew up knowing a ton of people who got married in the temple right away, and a ton who got married civilly first... let me tell ya,, Satan sure likes to destroy what he can't have. And while I realize how important it is to your parents that you get sealed, I really am not reading that you are getting married civially first because you can't control yourselves.. I am reading that you want to get married civially because you are worthy to go to the temple now, and dont want to "blow it" As long as you keep your eyes on the goal and work together, you will make it to the temple at your 1st anniversary. You need to respect that she probably wont respect your decision, and move on.. Tell her what you need to and respect her disappointment, and pray she respects your decision! I don't envy you,, I do offer you strength.,, I am here for you any time..

[Britentj]

Oh and I whole heartedly agree with Canuck Mormon!!! Now send me an invite already! GEESH! *wink*

[NeuroTypical]

I'm planning on allowing my mom to be a part of the planning and everything as much as possible before telling her. I don't want her to regret not being a part of the planning process.

Before telling her what?

[justme78]

Before telling her what?

Before telling her that we plan on getting married civilly first (and hopefully next month if we can get the ball rolling quickly enough). She knows that it's a possibility because we talked about it last week (which caused a big fight of course *sigh*). Like I mentioned...we've already made the decision that we know is right for us. I know that she will make things as miserable as possible with the hopes of changing my mind. So...I want to allow her to be a part of it before she pushes me out. Then again...it's already started. A few weeks ago I had family in town and she was talking about how much fun it would have been for us all to go dress shopping. I brought it up today, and she rolled her eyes at me.

Yeah. I was planning on living at their house while I tried to sell my condo (I'm currently staying with them anyway, as I have been recovering from 2 operations). Now...I think I'll need to live at my condo until the wedding just to simply keep the peace and to allow myself to be happy and excited about this absolutely wonderful event even though she can't be happy for me.

[NeuroTypical]

I know that she will make things as miserable as possible with the hopes of changing my mind. So...I want to allow her to be a part of it before she pushes me out.

So, I just want to make sure that I really understand what you're saying. You are going "buy" some good times with your mother by lying to her. Do I understand that right? You'll be pretending to be getting married in the temple so your mom will be a part of it, and at some future time (preferably before she's standing there at the temple alone on your wedding day), you'll let her know you were lying to her?

If I've got something wrong, please correct me.

LM

[Maureen]

In other words, assuming you are right, if you can't accept your mom's position and move on with your plans, you're not ready to be married.

I just have to say this - great advice Loudmouth!

M.

[justme78]

Nope, I don't plan on lying to her at all. I plan on not bringing that part up yet. She knows it's a possibility as we discussed it already. I just don't plan on telling her one way or the other quite yet. Turns out it doesn't matter, because she's already upset enough that it was brought up in the first place. I can accept that she's upset enough that she doesn't want anything to do with my wedding. It doesn't mean that I have to start the tension immediately. Again, turns out that bringing it up was bad enough.

Edited October 7, 2008 by justme78

[checkerboy]

Ok I have to say I love how we as an LDS community love to stick our noses in other peoples business. I have seen this repeatedly done where someone comes in asking for advice on a specific topic and we then proceed to give them an earful about things that we have no clue about.

Obviously this woman has made her decisions about who she will marry. I find it ridiculous to hear others telling her to be careful-his other situations are red flags. That isn't what she came her asking about. She also doesn't need our judgement when it comes to not telling her mom that she isn't gonna be married in the temple. All she wanted to know was how to get her mom to understand that this was her choice and that she felt good about it. My only advice on that subject would be to tell your mom that the only way that you feel right about not putting yourself in the position where something immoral would occur would be to get married now. It may hurt her but life hurts. Time for her to get over it. I think this is one of those things that only time will tell. She will see your desire and eventually get to go with you to the temple. But it will be in your time not hers.

[Britentj]

spoken like typical molly mormons, sorry but you obviously did not read the entire post nor have you had someone so judgemental in your lives,, Kudos to you

[Britentj]

my last post was for loud mouth mormon, and a BIG thank you to Checker boy, spoken like someone who lives their life more Christ like and non Judgemental,, more of that this world needs..

Wow, that was pretty judgemental of me and I know this, before you all jump down my throat and call me a hypocrite. A spade is still a spade, no matter how you manipulate it.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Well technically if you melt a spade down you can make it into something else?

I believe the Lord was talking about spades or something concerning the second coming?

"And their swords shall be beaten into spades?"

I know it's something to do with spades....