Son of Perdition

[Nibowaka]

I finished reading 3 Nephi tonight, on my way to reading the entire Book of Mormon by year's end. This scripture struck me as never before: 3 Nephi 6-7. In part this passage reads, "Yea, wo unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord...." / "Yea, and wo unto him that shall say...there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become like unto the son of perdition...." [emphasis mine]

I had always been taught that to become a "son of perdition" you had to have a direct knowledge of Jesus as the Christ, give by the Holy Ghost, and then you deny the Holy Ghost and the divinity of Jesus. 3 Nephi 6-7 seems to say that just denying the revelations and saying there can be no more miracles is enough to make one a "son of perdition".

Please clarify.

[Guest tomk]

The Sons of Perdition ... and those who inherit Celestial Glory -- BOTH come from the same potentiality.

Meaning...you cannot become a Son of Perdition unless you have been priviledged to experience the other end of the spectrum. Having received the Second Comforter. Having seen Christ face to face and THEN choosing to turn therefrom. And make no mistake ... we CAN choose to turn from Him .... even then. That is why the testing and proving process is so rigorous before we receive the Second Comforter...so that we are less likely to fall from that priviledge. But we always have choice.

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES

Sons of Perdition

See also Damnation; Death, Spiritual; Devil; Hell; Unpardonable Sin

The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Sons of perdition include1 those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality, and2 those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88: 32, 35).

None of them is lost but the son of perdition, John 17: 12. It is impossible to renew them again unto repentance, Heb. 6: 4-6 (Heb. 10: 26-29). Mercy hath no claim on that man and his final doom is never-ending torment, Mosiah 2: 36-39. He is as though there was no redemption made, Mosiah 16: 5. Those who deny Christ’s miracles to get gain shall become like the son of perdition, 3 Ne. 29: 7. They will receive no forgiveness in this world or the next, D&C 76: 30-34 (D&C 84: 41; 132: 27). They are the only ones who will not be redeemed from the second death, D&C 76: 34-48. Sons of perdition deny the Holy Spirit after receiving it, D&C 76: 35. Sons of perdition deny the Son after the Father has revealed him, D&C 76: 43. Cain shall be called Perdition, Moses 5: 22-26.

References

• <LI class=searchitem>John 17: 12

  12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

  <LI class=searchitem>Heb. 6: 4-6

  4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

  5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

  6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

  <LI class=searchitem>Heb. 10: 26-29

  26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

  27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

  28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

  29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

  <LI class=searchitem>Mosiah 2: 36-39

  36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—

  37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.

  38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

  39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.

  <LI class=searchitem>Mosiah 16: 5

  5 But remember that he that persists in his own carnal nature, and goes on in the ways of sin and rebellion against God, remaineth in his fallen state and the devil hath all power over him. Therefore he is as though there was no redemption made, being an enemy to God; and also is the devil an enemy to God.

  <LI class=searchitem>3 Ne. 29: 7

  7 Yea, and wo unto him that shall say at that day, to get gain, that there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become like unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy, according to the word of Christ!

  <LI class=searchitem>D&C 76: 30-48

  30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:

  31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—

  32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

  33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

  34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—

  35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

  36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—

  37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

  38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

  39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

  40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

  41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

  42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

  43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

  44 Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment—

  45 And the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows;

  46 Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;

  47 Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again;

  48 Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation.

  <LI class=searchitem>D&C 84: 41

  41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

  <LI class=searchitem>D&C 88: 32, 35

  32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

  • • •

  35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.

  <LI class=searchitem>D&C 132: 27

  27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

• Moses 5: 22-26

  22 And the Lord said unto Cain: Why art thou wroth? Why is thy countenance fallen?

  23 If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him;

  24 For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world.

  25 And it shall be said in time to come—That these abominations were had from Cain; for he rejected the greater counsel which was had from God; and this is a cursing which I will put upon thee, except thou repent.

  26 And Cain was wroth, and listened not any more to the voice of the Lord, neither to Abel, his brother, who walked in holiness before the Lord.

[Guest tomk]

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

We must see the Savior, face to face BEFORE we have the potential to become Sons of Perdition.

[BenRaines]

Like unto. Does not say that they will be Sons of Perdition.

Ben Raines

[Justice]

The "more sure word of prophecy" or revelation is this:

2 Pet. 1:

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

D&C 131:

5 (May 17th, 1843.) The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

What Peter is trying to say is clarified by Joseph Smith.

So, as Tom suggests, the light of Christ must shine as noon day on your soul, and you must know that He is, and then turn altogether away. I have heard some interpret it to mean you must literally see Him, and others say "knowing is seeing." Either way, you must know that He is the Son of God and all that it implies, and reject what He offers. He will not force Himself and His gifts on anyone.

Once one has reached this point, and then turns away, they become "like unto" the son of perdition.

And, as Ben suggests, the "like unto" is important.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Justice

[bert10]

Hi Nibowaka.

What I know is that forgiveness of sin is based on the gospel of repentance.

Here are the two conditions that will consign a person to the outer darkness (which is the final place of the sons of perdition)

1. Being unable to be renewed unto Repentance. [see hebrews chapter 6]

2. Refusing to repent in this world and in the world to come.

Luke 14:34 - Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

There is no power greater than the Holy Ghost [salt by which to season men] to bring men into repentance. And if men have offended it so that the Holy Ghost can do nothing more for them, or refuse to have any part of it...then they become as sons of perditions who rebelled against the Spirit of Truth and swore an oath to never repent.

Peace be unto you

bert10

I finished reading 3 Nephi tonight, on my way to reading the entire Book of Mormon by year's end. This scripture struck me as never before: 3 Nephi 6-7. In part this passage reads, "Yea, wo unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord...." / "Yea, and wo unto him that shall say...there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become like unto the son of perdition...." [emphasis mine]

I had always been taught that to become a "son of perdition" you had to have a direct knowledge of Jesus as the Christ, give by the Holy Ghost, and then you deny the Holy Ghost and the divinity of Jesus. 3 Nephi 6-7 seems to say that just denying the revelations and saying there can be no more miracles is enough to make one a "son of perdition".

Please clarify.

[deseretgov]

Yeah I noticed the"like unto" part. Not saying they will be one. But like unto one.

[CatchTheRedeye]

I don't believe in any god or in Jesus Christ. Does that make me a son of perdition in your eyes? I don't consider that I am fighting against either or those who believe in them. I just don't believe for or against their existence. I know when I have run across this concept in Mormon writings it has been a little confusing to me. Do you think it would it be better for sons of perdition to have never come to earth at all or are they still better off than the ones who never came to mortality?

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Don't worry red eye, to become a Son of Perdition you pretty much have to see Christ himself, have his love, and know that he is the Son of God, and then reject him. You have to become so evil that you would have crucified him yourself.

It's as if you've seen the sun and then deny it exists.

[rameumptom]

Someone who is like a son of perdition, would be a telestial being. These are people who have rejected most of Christ's atonement and commandments, denying revelation and the gifts God offers to those who accept him.

These are those who will be barely saved from outer darkness, after having suffered for their unrepented sins in spirit prison. These are those who will suffer even as Christ did, for they chose not to repent (D&C 19).

But they will finally be redeemed in the end, during the Second Resurrection and just ahead of the sons of perdition.

Hope this helps?

[Hemidakota]

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

We must see the Savior, face to face BEFORE we have the potential to become Sons of Perdition.

Yes! Only few who achieve this pinnacle of truth will become the Son of Perdition. Now, Saints who do receive the 'Fullness of the Godhead' and not repent, will have to suffer their own sins. This is outside of the reach of the Savior's Atonement. They will come forth after all others have been resurrected. Receiving such reward has it momentous downfall.

[JohnBirchSociety]

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

We must see the Savior, face to face BEFORE we have the potential to become Sons of Perdition.

That is part of the equation. But it is not all. There are those who have seen the Lord and deny his authority and are not Sons of Perdition.

In this dispensation, the following must occur for someone to be a Son of Perdition (as described to the MTC in 1988 by Elder Maxwell):

1) Calling and election made sure by Temple Ordinance.

2) Manifestation of Christ with the personal manifestation of the Holy Ghost, in person.

3) Deny these truths.

Elder Maxwell said that only a handful of people in all of human history would qualify to become Sons of Perdition.

[Justice]

Yes, the whole statement is that we must see the Lord face to face and know that He is, then...

[Hemidakota]

That is part of the equation. But it is not all. There are those who have seen the Lord and deny his authority and are not Sons of Perdition.

In this dispensation, the following must occur for someone to be a Son of Perdition (as described to the MTC in 1988 by Elder Maxwell):

1) Calling and election made sure by Temple Ordinance.

2) Manifestation of Christ with the personal manifestation of the Holy Ghost, in person.

3) Deny these truths.

Elder Maxwell said that only a handful of people in all of human history would qualify to become Sons of Perdition.

How many of those individuals can describe the Holy Ghost in person?

[Hemidakota]

Yes, the whole statement is that we must see the Lord face to face and know that He is, then...

Also, they will know Lucifer personally. This allowed visitation is a must to know the difference between those of the divine heritage and those who are not. See what happened to Moses and Joseph Smith.

[Freddie]

Someone who is like a son of perdition, would be a telestial being. These are people who have rejected most of Christ's atonement and commandments, denying revelation and the gifts God offers to those who accept him.

These are those who will be barely saved from outer darkness, after having suffered for their unrepented sins in spirit prison. These are those who will suffer even as Christ did, for they chose not to repent (D&C 19).

But they will finally be redeemed in the end, during the Second Resurrection and just ahead of the sons of perdition.

Hope this helps?

How can sons of perdition be redeemed when 2 Nephi 9:16 says "their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone; whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever, and has no end"? Edited June 3, 2011 by Freddie

[slamjet]

3... 2... 1... Locked!

[Vort]

Hey, wait! What...why...how...?!?!

[Freddie]

My question to rameumptom wasn't meant to be argumentative.

It was meant as a question (and if there's an answer, I'm interested.)

[Torch]

How can one determine at what point they "know?" Many members claim unequivocally that they KNOW the church is true when in fact it is simply a belief, regardless of how strong the belief may be.

[pam]

Hi Torch. What you say does make sense. However, sometimes I think we get into a version of simple semantics. I've been a member all of my life and I can say that I believe with all my being. I could say that having such strong feelings that I just know that what I believe is true.

Yet you could argue to know is to have proof. I don't have proof in many of the things that I believe in. Yet through prayer and study and personal revelation..I've come to "know" that it's true. That's where my faith comes in.

Yet if it came down to answering do I know or do I believe in a technical sense. It would have to be belief since I don't have absolute proof in all things.

Not arguing with your point of view..just stating mine. :)

[rameumptom]

Telestial beings are people who have been very wicked, but choose to repent finally upon facing the hell of Spirit Prison. Sons of Perdition absolutely refuse to accept Christ. They stare Christ in the face, and reject him.

I've pondered the possibility that each of us has to make such a decision between accepting and rejecting through knowledge. When we stand before the judgment bar of God, we will all have a perfect knowledge of God and our sins. At that point, if not before, each of us will have to decide whether to receive Christ's atonement or become his eternal enemy. For those who are telestial, they merit the pains and pangs of Outer Darkness. Yet, they will repent at the last, escaping eternal night. Often this will not occur until they have suffered, even as Alma or Christ suffered (Alma 36, D&C 19) to the point that they are compelled to be humbled and repent.

Those who become Sons of Perdition are those who absolutely refuse Christ's atonement, even when standing in His presence. They loath him, and pride themselves in being his enemy. They will endure anything and everything in order to crucify Christ anew. They will go into Outer Darkness.

[slamjet]

Hey, wait! What...why...how...?!?!

It has been the MO of the mods to lock threads that are brought to life, like this one, that are old. Like, three years old. Guess I'm wrong about this one.

[Vort]

How can one determine at what point they "know?" Many members claim unequivocally that they KNOW the church is true when in fact it is simply a belief, regardless of how strong the belief may be.

This is a matter of definition. What does it mean to "know"?

For most of my adult life, I was of the school of thought that Latter-day Saints ought to say "I believe" more than "I know". In the last few years, I have had a change of mind and heart on this topic. I think it is more truthful and meaningful in many instances to say "I know", even if your experience did not involve a divine visitation.

[estradling75]

It has been the MO of the mods to lock threads that are brought to life, like this one, that are old. Like, three years old. Guess I'm wrong about this one.

I totally missed how old the thread was...

Then rameumptom replied after being called out on a post he made several years ago with no problem.

Sons of Perdition aren't all that common of a subject. So yeah this one got a pass.