Elgama Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Whoa there, dont get me wrong. I'm all for the environment being maintained and people living environmentally friendly lives. What I am not for is the blame being placed squarely on humans, and becoming a political issue when there is plenty of solid scientific evidence out there that goes contrary to what is being spouted by politicians.Yes do what you can to limit your impact on the environment, and do what you can to get both, full sides of the story.A very brief but interesting vid on this issue is 'the great global warming swindle' just a start point to get into alternate scientific views.My own academic background on the subject isn't too shabby - I have an odd background with it including science as well as history which trains me to look for biasI've seen enough with my own eyes to be convinced it is happening and that it has increased since the Industrial Revolution (well everyone else's lol ours was a bit earlier), and the past 50-60 years have been the most dramatic, I've seen the results from the bore holes and I know the difference in archaeology and geology over the time.Even if it was only a possibility I still believe, that we should be doing what we can to prevent it - did you ever see the film garbage warrior? I remember him saying at the beginning that he just felt like he was in a herd of buffalo stampeding to the edge but he felt the urge to turn and start shouting at everyone to keep away from the edge. I agree whilst the Earth will be fine thats no excuse for everyone rationalising away the need to do something about greed, etc - sure global warming may not be caused by us there is evidence it maybe and there is evidence it might not be - I usually find the truth is in the middle so we are probably not causing it but we are contributing and making it worse than its ever been, We are polluting ourselves and our cities - that is fact, its fact it causes illness and buildings to decay.So for me I am not taking the chance with this one that one side may be wrong or another maybe wrong its too serious and both sides have their point-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBirchSociety Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Is that ground or air temperature? The archaeology does not bare your arguement out - bore holes taken near the poles or even here in Scotland show that ground that has been frozen for many thousands of years is now melting. The ground temperature here in the North is clearly warmer than it has been for an awful long time and its no coincidence that its since the late 1800s that this has been happening, even more so in the last 50 years.I know that there are patterns with El Nino and La Nina that are similar - its easier to measure the long term damage and when it has increased from in areas which have been frozen for millenia than it is walking out your door.-CharleyThere are regional changes. These are cyclical in nature. For example, the Saraha wasn't always a desert. What we are talking about are global changes upwards in temperature, caused by the pollution of man. There is no such thing occurring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 NASA - Satellite Thermometers Show Earth Has a Feverlook at the data from the NASA satellites from a different angle and it shows a different story - as far as global warming science is concerned the ground temperature is more important than the air - its this that is causing ice caps to melt - The other important one is sea surface temperature - which effects ecosystems - for example Puffins on St Kilda (the most Northerly bit of British Isles) the sea is warming and killing off the sand eels which the Puffins thrive on and because the weather is warmer Skua's are invading the island.The St Kildan's are the example of how with ignorance of science us humans can screw up an ecosystem - they poisoned their own soil.-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 There are regional changes. These are cyclical in nature. For example, the Saraha wasn't always a desert. What we are talking about are global changes upwards in temperature, caused by the pollution of man. There is no such thing occurring.the reason you are not finding the evidence is you are not looking in the right places, you are relying on others to do your research which is fine but that doesn't really tell you which side is more valid merely which side you like the arguement of the best -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 the reason you are not finding the evidence is you are not looking in the right places, you are relying on others to do your research which is fine but that doesn't really tell you which side is more valid merely which side you like the arguement of the best -Charley There are really two questions: One question: Are the majority of the climates of earth changing in the same similar pattern? Second question: The climates of earth that are changing – how much of the change is caused by human pollution. Our friend JBS does not want to admit that there is any climate change or that man contributes. I have attempted to open discussion about what is changing and why but for the most part that does not seem to interest anyone. There is a possibility that air pollution is lower now than at any time since man learned to use fire. Another thought is that solar power converted to electrical power is the least polluting source of energy. But such thinking is short sided. Solar panels are silicon or polymer based manufacturing that is highly reliant on chemicals that are not environmentally friendly. There are trade offs – one point that many environmentalist miss is that there is a possibility that we can intelligently manage even our wild resources. Mother Nature left to herself is seldom as beneficial as some advertise. We need to be honest (politically and publicly) with what we are attempting to accomplish and not have hidden agendas. I would try harder to agree with our friend JBS but I believe they have a hidden agenda. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnie G Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I was warm and busy sanding my back porch getting it ready for staining today.I should be plugging my car in and buying a new snow shovel but I'm in short sleeves and staining the porch.I do my best not to warm the earth like all the cattle around here. You hear me you cows don't fart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBirchSociety Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 the reason you are not finding the evidence is you are not looking in the right places, you are relying on others to do your research which is fine but that doesn't really tell you which side is more valid merely which side you like the arguement of the best -CharleyNonsense. I personally know people who work in Antartica. People in my family work there. The side that is more valid is the one with the more valid argument. If one side demands global governance of man because we are causing global climate damage, then that side must prove beyond reasonable doubt that man contributes to global climate activity in anything other than a minute manner. Surface temperatures globally are not increasing. Air temperatures are not increasing, globally, either. The two go hand in hand. The overwhelming, massive, totally enveloping force that changes our climate on a global scale is the SUN and our changing orbit around it. It is cyclical. When man wasn't on the scene there were periods of temperature greater, by far, than today. Man had nothing to do with it then, and we have nothing, in other than a very, very (I can't say very enough here) minute way. We minutely contribute to total CO2 / C2O in the atmosphere. We minutely contribute to the total Sulfur Dioxide in the air. It's like dropping a 100Billion pound weight from 1,000 feet up, and as it is falling, adding 1OUNCE (I'm not exaggerating the scale on this), and then saying "Watch out, look what you've done!"....The SUN warms the atmosphere of the Earth at the rate of 1366Watts per Square meter of exposure, per second, everyday, since long before we were on the scene. That equates to about 1000Watts of energy per square meter of exposed land, per second, everyday, since long before we were here. The SUN puts out 386 Billion, Billion, Megawatts of power PER SECOND. Thank the Lord that only a tiny fraction of that reaches us each second. The point of this that no man-made force in history even equates to that energy, even the detonation of over 700 nuclear bombs hasn't done it. In fact, not even NATURAL Earth disasters of historical magnitude have been able to do it.We just are not a factor, globally, in cooling (as we are now), or warming (as was the case from 1979-1999). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Regardless of man's effect on global warming, global conquest will be futile in its attempt to preserve the environment. How effective has government been with respect to limiting drug traffic? -a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 we only have 7yrs left according to Al Gore before we all burn up and die.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygirl66 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think it must be true. I was running errands today and most of the women and girls I saw had very skimpy clothing on it must be because of the heat. As matter of fact I saw some boys that were so hot they couldn't even keep their pants up. (sorry this should have probably gone in the irony area) Just kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 i think it must be true. I was running errands today and most of the women and girls i saw had very skimpy clothing on it must be because of the heat. As matter of fact i saw some boys that were so hot they couldn't even keep their pants up. (sorry this should have probably gone in the irony area) just kidding. lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 we only have 7yrs left according to Al Gore before we all burn up and die....And NAFTA was going to bring about a trade surplus.-a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 And NAFTA was going to bring about a trade surplus.-a-trainbecause of NAFTA....lost my job in 1996.....job went to another country.....:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Are you dressed as Indiana Jones? Or just a cowboy? Close. Indiana Moksha in The Thread of Warming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I wonder if they had global warming back in Joseph Smith's day....Probably not. They didn't have people driving cars that pollute nor did they have all these coal burning power plants.According to NASA the global average temperature has cooled in the last eight years.You actually TRUST a government statistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Actually, NASA was correct. They have a large weather database that keeps tab on temps and other weather related items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Funny thing is that you believ them. The government lies to people all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Perhaps, I have friends in NASA that I can trust when it comes data research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona0197 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Doubtful. They are probably telling you what you want to hear because congress told them to hush up about the real facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 · Hidden Hidden NEWS FLASH: PHOTO TAKEN OF THE CULPRIT RESPONSIBLE FOR "GLOBAL WARMING"http://science.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Science/Images/Content/glowing Link to comment
Hemidakota Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 LOL...and what facts is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 · Hidden Hidden NEWS ALERT!!! NEW SCIENTIFIC PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF THE CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING HYSTERIA:IMG]http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Al-Gore-ait02.jpg Link to comment
bytor2112 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 The real cause of Global Warming........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-train Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 If his predictions about global warming are as good as his predictions on NAFTA, we should have no fear. -a-train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 I heard some guy on am radio read a report about there being more ice in one of the poles (I don't remember which one) than there has been in a decade. Then the guys says,"Good job, Al! You did it!!" HAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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