I think I might be becoming a lost saint

[j_jmorton]

Hi,

Well I guess i should probably start explaining myself. I was brought up in the church kinda. My family were always on and off. Half the time me and my brothers went to church alone. We moved to australia when i was ten and things only got worse. Dad said the church was different and started to drink allot. He became a abusive dad and father. So i used to pray for god to stop dad from drinking and hitting us. Pray for him to just come sit next to me at church. I never got any signs or answers so I gave up and decided god prayed favorites. I stopped going to church when i was 16.

I started to come back to church 2 years ago I was 21. I had the m ost spirtual expierences at first and even though I went trough a bishops counsil (for breaking the law of chasity) I just loved the church and my scriptures so much. However almost straight after my bishops council probation was over I met my husband. Return missionary all the right things. We were married 3 monthes later. It was so hard people telling me bits and pieces not knowing what was going to happed in the temple. I hated my wedding day. The endowment ceramony felt fake and the sealing just as bad. I feel bad, was i not ready?

A few monthes later still struggling with my faith. My brother came out of the closet. My brother is gay. I belive him when he says it wasnt a choice. He has to deal with commiting sins for the way he feels. This made my faith sunk a little more.

My husband is great just tries to explain and understand. but he dosent. I feel like im going through this all alone. I cant even speak to my bishop about my problems because hes awful.

I wanted my wedding to be spritual. I wanted all the lovely tingles. I dont understand. Every day I feel like my faith is getting smaller and smaller Im afraid it will disapear for good.

I think I need some advice

[a-train]

My mother was raised in a family that was baptized by the missionaries while she was in grade school. Her step-father (her real father left the family in my mother's toddler years) only pretended a conversion and was a cross-dressing child abuser. Dark family secrets were kept as atrocities went on in the home. Her brother (my uncle) at one time confronted his step-father by burning his women's clothing and make up. He ultimately escaped the household and served a mission and married in the temple. My mother escaped at the age of 16 as she was taken in by the Relief Society President in her ward.

My mother's younger sister went straight into drugs, alcohol, and some of the most dangerous partying the 80's could offer. She was raped several times, abused by men, she worked in strip clubs, she suffered mental, physical, social, chemical, and spiritual anguish.

My mother and her siblings sought therapy from time to time. Her younger sister never started a family, but is married today (she is now in her late forties) and still has great social anxiety and takes medication. Her brother has struggled with his masculinity because of the abuses he suffered as a child and has always struggled with his relations with men. He ultimately decided that these trials and those of his marriage perhaps meant he was "gay".

My mother may have suffered WORSE than her siblings! After her short escape to the Relief Society President's home and her subsequent graduation from high school, she married a recent convert to the Church who was upstanding and stable. They were married and nurtured a new family. While things seemed to be improving for her greatly, her mental anguish resulted in intense therapy and some in-patient care. In the midst of this care, while in the depths of postpartum depression, and while caring for my youngest sister who was but 5 months old, the man my mother married, (my father) was murdered by thieves in his business leaving my mother a widow with three children at the age of just 25. The main suspect was a member of the Church who ultimately was convicted of several murders and is still in a Texas prison today.

Over the next decade, my mother took sleeping pills and slept through the childhood of myself and my sisters as we in many ways raised ourselves. Our widowed mother was only able to keep us out of total poverty with help from the Church and my grandfather (my father's dad).

I had my first job at the age of nine. In our teens, my siblings and I paid for most, if not all, our clothing. As we approached the age to leave home, my mother became increasingly desperate to re-marry. At a church dance, it seemed her walls caved in as she felt a social rejection among the people there. In tears, she drove from the social and went to the local bar strip in search of people she could identify with. The "gay" scene in that particular bar strip is very large.

My mother ultimately decided that all her troubles and anguish over the years was due to her being "born gay". Her brother cheated on his wife with another man and was excommunicated. My mother, after many years of bad relationships with women now lives out of state with a woman she found while traveling the country. She is probably the happiest I've known her since my teens. Most of her happiness comes from the support she gets from her partner. My mother now drinks heavily and smokes cigars. Her physical health shows the signs.

Let me tell you that all of this strengthens my testimony of the LORD, of the Restoration, and of the modern Church. My mother and her brother did NOT pass the abuses they received on to their children as did the generations before them. They were chosen spirits who did a service that was monumental in its scope, whereby it broke a chain of abuses that may have gone back centuries.

I went to the temple my first time in 1995. My uncle (yes, the one who left his wife and is now "gay") went with me the first time to the temple and to the MTC as I left for my mission. It was while I was on my mission that he left his wife.

My first experience in the temple gave me more questions than answers. But I must say that this was not frustrating nor overwhelming to me, but exciting and motivating. Like the first time one opens an encyclopedia, the sheer volume of information may seem too cumbersome. As we read the entries, the vocabulary may necessitate the use of a dictionary. We can either put it down because of all the seemingly overwhelming task of digestion, or rejoice that such a fantastic gift is at our fingertips!

Many times we consider our own testimonies as measured by that encyclopedia and feel our faith shrinking. As we randomly consider the things we see flipping threw those pages we suddenly wonder if we can believe in what is there. We start to see how much blind faith we placed in it as we see things we've never before seen. We start to realize that the whole time we were placing our faith in an iceberg of which we only knew a tiny point sticking out of the surface of the water.

Many different voices stand above the water on various pieces of ice and tell us the features of the icebergs beneath. They stand on one and claim the foundation below them is the strongest. They say the one we believe in is nothing but a small piece of ice that will ultimately sink under our weight. The prophets stand on this piece of ice and proclaim its sure foundation and the dangers of the false icebergs.

We must choose whether to fear the iceberg or dive in and discover what really lies beneath the surface. We cannot believe anyone as they all disagree. We are faced with the choice of either finding out for ourselves or blind trust. We, like the young Joseph Smith, will never know of ourselves without individual, personal, witness.

I can promise you that you will find many things that are not as you perceive them now as will I. But this process is not to be feared, but to be enjoyed. It is the process of unlocking the mysteries of God and returning to His presence.

What is the purpose of revelation if man already perceives the LORD properly? We are now enduring the great test to be placed in the darkness to discover the light. Like the burning coals of a campfire that only visibly glow in the dark, the shimmers of truth are more visible in darkness, but give way to insignificance in the light of day, just as the small piece of the iceberg standing out of the water becomes but a tiny indication of what lies beneath.

A study of the scriptures and a daily communication with God is simply imperative. Write down the things you know, the things you can say you have a testimony of. Also write down those things of which you are unsure. Take these things to the LORD and build on what you know. You will be surprised and will rejoice by what you find.

As confusing and ridiculous as the world may seem, I can tell you, the LORD is with us and doing mighty works. The concerns you have about your family, about homosexuality, and about the temple can either be used by you to take charge and to discover for yourself the truth which brings you liberty, or by those who wish to control you with misinformation to lead you into their power, into captivity.

The prophets do not encourage us to trust them, but to know the truth for ourselves.

-a-train

Edited November 3, 2008 by a-train

[KelleyMc]

I'm sorry to hear that your going through such a rough time right now. I know it may seem clitche but God doesn't pick and choose who he helps, it just takes time or it's already happened and we don't see it (or it wasn't meant to happen at all). I agree with a-train. Search for yourself the truth. I know it'll be hard, believe me I know. But isn't that what makes it all the more important?

[Guest tomk]

Welcome to the forums.

I don't have much by way of advice, except to stay close to your Bishop during all of this. Stay close to the Lord. Lean upon their protection and guidance.

Tom

[countrygirl66]

hi jj

Wanted to say hang in there. I will say there have been so many times in my life expecially as a young person/young adult that I have had to follow the gospel principles by faith. I have been blessed richly because of it. I have in no way been perfect at it but just kept trying. I have between a bio family, step family, and adopted family 15 brothers and sisters. We run a huge range of beleif and problems. Some have chosen g/l as a solution to their problems. Some have chosen drugs/alcahol. Some have chosen ???. I guess what I wanted to share most with you is that on the day I married my h was the scariest day of my life. I knew I was doing what the lord has counciled (marry a righteous man in the temple) but my fear made it a hard step to make. After we were married I kind of freaked out (afraid the marriage would fail, afraid he would leave me, afraid he would turn bad). He hung in there with me. My fear of the temple I overcame by continually going. (a lot by myself) I learned a lot by being there and just enjoying the spirit. It took time. I overcame my fears with time, patience with my h and myself. He couldn't really understand but I wanted to be the first in my bio family and step family to have only 1 h. I didn't want to put my kids through what I went through. The great thing is that we have been married 23 years. I think my h was picked especially for me because he has the ability to keep trying with me. The three that saved us kids so 7 of 8 made it to adulthood in my bio family was my grandparents and great grandma. They gave up all they had in life to feed us and provide us a place to live. When we were left they came and found us. A few years ago I was baptised for my grandma and my great grandma. As I came out of the water I felt that I had fulfilled a commitment I had made to them in the preexistence. (they would save us in mortal life and I would do their temple work.) They were never members in this life. I do feel though that they fulfilled the mission assigned to them. Take care of yourself and be patient with yourself. For me marriage was a scary step to take but so worth it.

[StrawberryFields]

Beautiful testimony a-train. :)

j jmorton,

It sounds to me like you will have a few trails ahead of you. Trials are sometime necessary so that we can see what really matters to us. Stick around here, you do have friends now you can talk with. Be patient with your self and those around you. Do as a-train suggested write down the things you know. Welcome to LDS.Net. :)

Hugs, SF

[Maya]

Hi JJ. You sure have had your share. I am sure the sun will sihne after a while, if you dont give up. Give the Temple an other try. Dont listen to people who know nothing. I am sorry the marriage was not that good an experience. I have lived a period of some 15 myears in the church by mere stubbornity telling myself it is true as I knew it was. Now I see some light in the tunell.

You can make it. Try good toughts... begin to make the bad toughts go away...

[Elgama]

The advice given in the UK to Sisters is to attend the temple several weeks or months before they get married, rather than on the same day, not to try and take it in first time let it was over you as it will feel strange and weird. And to keep going back as much as you can intially.

I think its sound advice I struggle physically with the temple because of an illness makes it very tiring and difficult to follow - I took the advice and went through several times in the one week which helped me with my testimony. I have had an up and down ride with the temple... things have happened concerning other people that interfered with it. But really if it feels weird keep going.

I did find the temple sealing ceremony beautiful but very short, we arrived early, and were out by the time we should have arrived.

Can you go and spend a week at a temple at all?

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

Hi,

Well I guess i should probably start explaining myself. I was brought up in the church kinda. My family were always on and off. Half the time me and my brothers went to church alone. We moved to australia when i was ten and things only got worse. Dad said the church was different and started to drink allot. He became a abusive dad and father. So i used to pray for god to stop dad from drinking and hitting us. Pray for him to just come sit next to me at church. I never got any signs or answers so I gave up and decided god prayed favorites. I stopped going to church when i was 16.

I started to come back to church 2 years ago I was 21. I had the m ost spirtual expierences at first and even though I went trough a bishops counsil (for breaking the law of chasity) I just loved the church and my scriptures so much. However almost straight after my bishops council probation was over I met my husband. Return missionary all the right things. We were married 3 monthes later. It was so hard people telling me bits and pieces not knowing what was going to happed in the temple. I hated my wedding day. The endowment ceramony felt fake and the sealing just as bad. I feel bad, was i not ready?

A few monthes later still struggling with my faith. My brother came out of the closet. My brother is gay. I belive him when he says it wasnt a choice. He has to deal with commiting sins for the way he feels. This made my faith sunk a little more.

My husband is great just tries to explain and understand. but he dosent. I feel like im going through this all alone. I cant even speak to my bishop about my problems because hes awful.

I wanted my wedding to be spritual. I wanted all the lovely tingles. I dont understand. Every day I feel like my faith is getting smaller and smaller Im afraid it will disapear for good.

I think I need some advice

When I hear, he was born like that, I just smile and remark, "listening to those over a given period of time and allowing it to fester, always leads to action when we choose to give in." We all have thoughts of evil from different sources, it doesn't make me a thief, a murderer, a sexual predator, or shall I blame others for my action? You need to tell him, we can only blame ourselves in giving in to those festering feelings or thoughts. No! We are not born into sin. We choose to live it.

Being an example is always the first and foremost, we can do for others around us. We still show love to them who have fallen. Even I, still love my older brother Lucifer but condone him for his choices.

Having those marriage tingles in the beginning? I don't recall it except being told she was the one after picking her up. From there, 27-years later, I have those tingle when I look at her across the room, knowing we shall be together forever.

I hope everything works out for you...GOD bless.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Hemidakota

[rockwoodchev]

Hi,

Not sure if you are still around reading these tidbits of advice. I have several pieces of advice for you.

1. Stay away from your Bishop for advice and counsel. He has not been professionally trained. He has not been a newly married person for many many years. He has never been a woman, if you ask his wife, he probably doesn't understand them very well. If you are looking for help, get with other young married women for support. Lean on them. Not your Bishop. He just has no experience other than just pray, pay, obey.

2. Stay away from the temple. It seems to me that there are two types of people in the world. One group that the temple doesn't bother, and the other group are really bothered by it. I attend the temple about every 4-5 years as it really bothers me. I never do initiatory and I'll probably never do it again. My wife never attends except for weddings and sealings. Do not let people make you feel guilty about this. There is nothing in doctrine that says you are not a good person if you don't take all the time to go to the temple. This is not the season for you. Don't push it, don't worry about it.

3. Give your brother a big hug and let him know you love him. When he brings friends around, treat them with respect. Get to know him and develop a strong relationship.

4. Love hubby. Have fun. Be a good person.

Good luck to you.

[ZionWoman]

Wow JJ. I admire your perseverance. Life can throw some pretty rough curve balls and it seems that you have had more than a few.

You said you decided that God played favorites. Have you resolved this feeling? I don't believe that is true. God loves all his children and does everything for a reason. Sometimes what we pray for cannot be answered when we think it should be. I don't think I can explain everything I feel about this here but a great talk about this is given by S. Micheal Wilcox called "When My Prayers Seem Unanswered" and you can find on byutv.org. It Helped me to understand a little more and gave some resources to check out on my own.

You also said that the temple ceramony felt fake. I can understand how that can happen. For some people, the temple seems strange and allien. They have a hard time connecting with it and understanding what is being said underneath the actual words. The symbols are difficult to understand. I think that if you do some more studying with the scriptures and other sources, some of these things might become more clear. I'm not going to say you weren't ready. Maybe, it wasn't what you thought it would be, maybe you were distracted by the nerves of the wedding day. My first few years of temple attendance were filled with self doubt and confussion but it got better and now, with my kids and life being what it is for me, I can;t get there enough. Take some time but don't be affraid to go back. I don't know of a better place on earth and I would hate to think that someone would deny themselves the priviliges of the temple because of a bad experience. The Lord doesn't hand things to you on a silver platter. You have to want them and you have to work for them. I can assure you, it IS WORTH IT!

Homosexuality is hard to deal with. It's a tough one. I have close friends who are gay and I struggled with my feelings on the matter. I still do in some ways. Don't turn your back on your brother. I don't know why some people are gay and others don't seem to have any problems at all. I do know that God loves us all and that he tries us all in different ways. So I guess all I can say is like Nephi “I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.” 1 Nephi 11:17.

Try to have faith. Lean on those you can trust. Search, ponder, pray and find out for yourself. You have done well so far, just keep doing what has brought you back and don't stop moving forward.

[john doe]

This is thrown out to no one in particular or to point fingers. Why is it that when some one decides that they are gay, that it automatically means they are now free to break the law of chastity?

[skippy740]

However almost straight after my bishops council probation was over I met my husband. Return missionary all the right things. We were married 3 monthes later. It was so hard people telling me bits and pieces not knowing what was going to happed in the temple. I hated my wedding day. The endowment ceramony felt fake and the sealing just as bad. I feel bad, was i not ready?

I think I need some advice

First, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. That's what we're here for.

Might I suggest that you weren't ready?

People who are baptized into the church have to wait a whole year before entering the temple. When you've been away from the church for some time (and had a rocky childhood), you should've been given more time before going to the temple for the first time.

Some advice? Not sure exactly what I can offer you. I would start back and read the Children's Hymnbook. If you went to primary at all during your childhood, these songs will sound familiar to you and help you feel the spirit. It is through the Holy Spirit that we are taught.

From there, I would search The Book of Mormon. Go to the index and look up Temple and read all the verses about the Temples and the stories about them (yes, even King Noah).

Here are some more verses to look up:

1 Kings 7:10-29

1 Corinthians 15:29

D&C 124: 29-36

D&C 88:138-140

John 13:4-7

D&C 130: 10-11

Rev 2:17

Just a few versus from some scripture chains I had as a missionary.

[jadams_4040]

Hi,

Well I guess i should probably start explaining myself. I was brought up in the church kinda. My family were always on and off. Half the time me and my brothers went to church alone. We moved to australia when i was ten and things only got worse. Dad said the church was different and started to drink allot. He became a abusive dad and father. So i used to pray for god to stop dad from drinking and hitting us. Pray for him to just come sit next to me at church. I never got any signs or answers so I gave up and decided god prayed favorites. I stopped going to church when i was 16.

I started to come back to church 2 years ago I was 21. I had the m ost spirtual expierences at first and even though I went trough a bishops counsil (for breaking the law of chasity) I just loved the church and my scriptures so much. However almost straight after my bishops council probation was over I met my husband. Return missionary all the right things. We were married 3 monthes later. It was so hard people telling me bits and pieces not knowing what was going to happed in the temple. I hated my wedding day. The endowment ceramony felt fake and the sealing just as bad. I feel bad, was i not ready?

A few monthes later still struggling with my faith. My brother came out of the closet. My brother is gay. I belive him when he says it wasnt a choice. He has to deal with commiting sins for the way he feels. This made my faith sunk a little more.

My husband is great just tries to explain and understand. but he dosent. I feel like im going through this all alone. I cant even speak to my bishop about my problems because hes awful.

I wanted my wedding to be spritual. I wanted all the lovely tingles. I dont understand. Every day I feel like my faith is getting smaller and smaller Im afraid it will disapear for good.

I think I need some advice

You absolutely need to go back to the temple again and again and again! You do not understand how or what everything means,stands for, e;t;c.... please go back again and do sealings and endowments. this will help you with spiritual confirmations and great and wonderfull blessings of knowledge that will help you with all things. this i can "promise to you"! :)

[j_jmorton]

yeah i used to think god played favorites when i was younger. Now I dont know what to believe. Im not trying to complain and say that everythings so hard. I just dont understand why the temple was so difficult for me. Maybe I wasnt ready...

I want to believe but im just struggling.

[maria1981]

Hi,

Well I guess i should probably start explaining myself. I was brought up in the church kinda. My family were always on and off. Half the time me and my brothers went to church alone. We moved to australia when i was ten and things only got worse. Dad said the church was different and started to drink allot. He became a abusive dad and father. So i used to pray for god to stop dad from drinking and hitting us. Pray for him to just come sit next to me at church. I never got any signs or answers so I gave up and decided god prayed favorites. I stopped going to church when i was 16.

I started to come back to church 2 years ago I was 21. I had the m ost spirtual expierences at first and even though I went trough a bishops counsil (for breaking the law of chasity) I just loved the church and my scriptures so much. However almost straight after my bishops council probation was over I met my husband. Return missionary all the right things. We were married 3 monthes later. It was so hard people telling me bits and pieces not knowing what was going to happed in the temple. I hated my wedding day. The endowment ceramony felt fake and the sealing just as bad. I feel bad, was i not ready?

A few monthes later still struggling with my faith. My brother came out of the closet. My brother is gay. I belive him when he says it wasnt a choice. He has to deal with commiting sins for the way he feels. This made my faith sunk a little more.

My husband is great just tries to explain and understand. but he dosent. I feel like im going through this all alone. I cant even speak to my bishop about my problems because hes awful.

I wanted my wedding to be spritual. I wanted all the lovely tingles. I dont understand. Every day I feel like my faith is getting smaller and smaller Im afraid it will disapear for good.

I think I need some advice

aah bless u huni,

god loves us all no matter whot ,

u seem like a very loving person god will shine his love in ur home always,

ur brother is gay and yes u should belive him when he says this cant be helped at all its been proven as a sincentific FACT its a part of the brain which is different from normal he was infact born this way,

i did see a documentry about this and they proved this if his only thing is liking men then who cares realy, he is still gods son and god will love him if he is a good person and gives love and so on then whos to judge this

after all god cerates all an he made this to

shame on people for saying this is sin and god will send him to the fires as god will NOT do this

As a good christain i say no matter whot god is LOVE an god loves u and everyone he is mercyful an gracious with his love

he will shine his love on everyone even if u dont see it its thier

dont give up on faith as its a good thing after all we will all one day meet god and he will be waiting for u with open arms

as for ur dad god will be his judge and thats only right as this is a bad thing an a sin treating people badly is not love is it

my family life was similler to this drink drugs and abouse but this is not god nore love an god an faith have no part to play in that faith helps u get through this and helps people move on from this he cant stop bad things from happening after all he gave us free will and whot others chose to do with that is down to them

i left the church because of my family life too because i couldnt understand why that god could let this carry on but its part of learning and understanding

if u do give up just keep god in ur heart and love him in ur own way until ur ready as he will wait for u

hope u find ur peace and ur confussion becomes clear in ur heart

[countrygirl66]

This is thrown out to no one in particular or to point fingers. Why is it that when some one decides that they are gay, that it automatically means they are now free to break the law of chastity?

Some feel they are gay and keep the law of chastity so they are members in good standing. (you never really hear much from them) They are keeping the lords commandments. I think the ones that kick and scream are just like anyone else breaking commandments. They want to justify and convince not take responsibility. I can say this, because that is what I do when I am not doing what I should.

[Hemidakota]

yeah i used to think god played favorites when i was younger. Now I dont know what to believe. Im not trying to complain and say that everythings so hard. I just dont understand why the temple was so difficult for me. Maybe I wasnt ready...

I want to believe but im just struggling.

JJ, those who seek for the eternal glory suffer the same on a daily basis. No one in this probation is exempted from this eternal reward. Nor was the Son the GOD.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Maya]

The one who has been given more will more be required.

Does God love more those, who have little trials? I dont think so.

Gods work is mans eternal life. He wants me back, so he gives me those trials that wqill mold me so I one day can stand before him, if I stand the trials. (Boy was I stupid in the before life as I need to be given so much and so hard trils.)

Edited November 5, 2008 by Maya

[Hemidakota]

I agree...as I looked out into the valley below, I am amazed how HF has given us chance to prove ourselve, again and again, with patients and loving heart for HIS children. Now I pray for my enemies, my friends, and those who reject the truth that they may have the opporunity and a softening of the spirit to accept the truth.