Priorities

[bytor2112]

I think a lot of the perspectives that have been shared throughout this thread illustrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the law at issue.

This is how I understand it: When President Bush first took office, his first step was to cut any and all funding for planned parenthood in countries outside of the United States. Since Planned Parenthood includes abortion as one option in its pregnancy option counseling, Bush found that Planned Parenthood supported abortion, and therefore cut support in any other country.

Obama has pledged that he would reverse this decision, but I think you are overstating the issue by saying Obama is the most hyper liberal man in the universe and will not be happy until fetuses are completely disregarded. After all, according to wikipedia, planned parenthood is not simply an abortion factory. "Services include abortion services, contraceptive (birth control) services; emergency contraception; screening for breast, cervical and testicular cancers; pregnancy testing and pregnancy options counseling; testing and treatment for sexually transmitted diseases; sexuality education, menopause treatments; vasectomies and tubal ligations, and more."

Citizens of other countries sometimes cannot get these services anywhere else, and yet they are sometimes needed. I think it was bad for Bush to cut funding for such an important international program, and I am personally happy that Obama will put it back into action.

With regard to one comment that our government shouldn't give our tax money to any other country, my response that if you really believe this then you should be very very angry with every single penny that is being thrown at Iraq.

Planned Parenthood is the largest provider of abortion in the United States and I don't want to give my tax dollars to them in America or abroad. Have you ever read any of the dispicable quotes from Mary Sanger. the founder of Planned Parenthood? I can't imagine any LDS would want to help this disgusting organization....can you? Or any other Christian for that matter.

[PeterVenkman]

Yes, I can imagine it, because I am LDS and I strongly support Planned Parenthood. I do not know what despicable quotes you are referring to. Can you send me some?

Also, are you implying that it is not a good thing to have organizations that provide safe clean abortions? I mean, it's legal, and it's inevitably going to happen. Shouldn't we provide a safe space where rape victims and women whose lives are in danger can go? How about young pregnant women who do not understand their choices, or poor people who cannot afford STD tests?

[Guest ceeboo]

Yes, I can imagine it, because I am LDS and I strongly support Planned Parenthood.

:eek:

:eek:

Peace,

Carl

[PeterVenkman]

Thank you for your insight Carl.

[Guest ceeboo]

Thank you for your insight Carl.

:eek::eek:

Peace,

Carl

[pam]

Years ago when I was a representative for the company I worked for and headed our United Way campaign, I had the opportunity to visit a Planned Parenthood clinic. I had my ideas about what the place was all about and wasn't really happy about going there.

I had my eyes opened up to the types of services they provided. I think many of us hear Planned Parenthood and immediately think of abortions. While I am against abortions except in certain cases I realized that this organization is so much more.

They had numerous programs that are worthwhile. Testing for STD for those that can't afford them otherwise. Even providing treatment for those that could not afford it.

They had services for those that were pregnant. (and no they didn't try talking people into abortions) They had services for intestinal parasites whether sexually transmitted or not.

They had tools for parents. How to be better parents and how to talk to your children about sensitive subjects.

Again while I may not agree with the whole abortion availability issue, I did find the organization provided so many other services totally unrelated to abortion.

[Guest ceeboo]

My friend Pam,

:eek: :eek:

Peace,

Carl

[pam]

My friend Pam,

:eek: :eek:

Peace,

Carl

I wonder if they have any resources to do something with the twitching in your face.

[bytor2112]

Yes, I can imagine it, because I am LDS and I strongly support Planned Parenthood. I do not know what despicable quotes you are referring to. Can you send me some?

Also, are you implying that it is not a good thing to have organizations that provide safe clean abortions? I mean, it's legal, and it's inevitably going to happen. Shouldn't we provide a safe space where rape victims and women whose lives are in danger can go? How about young pregnant women who do not understand their choices, or poor people who cannot afford STD tests?

Below are some Sanger quotes. If "we" means me, then no...we shouldn't. If "we" means you...then go ahead..... with your own charitable donations. The majority of women who get abortions do so to avoid the consequences of a poor decision. Less than 7% of all abortions are performed as a result of rape, incest or the health of the mother. Planned Parenthood makes millions of dollars a year in profit. I don't want to help increase there bottom line. If you do...fine....but many do not wish to support this organization with tax dollars. And from a scriptural standpoint...again my opinion:

From Moroni Ch. 7

11 For behold, a bitter afountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

From Margaret Sanger:

Organized charity itself is the symptom of a malignant social disease. Those vast, complex, interrelated organizations aiming to control and to diminish the spread of misery and destitution and all the menacing evils that spring out of this sinisterly fertile soil, are the surest sign that our civilization has bred, is breeding and perpetuating constantly increasing numbers of defectives, delinquents and dependents.10

In another passage, she decries the burden of “human waste” on society:

It [charity] encourages the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant [emphasis added].11

She concluded,

The most serious charge that can be brought against modern “benevolence” is that it encourages the perpetuation of defectives, delinquents and dependents. These are the most dangerous elements in the world community, the most devastating curse on human progress and expression.12

The Review printed an excerpt of an address Sanger gave in 1926. In it she said:

It now remains for the U.S. government to set a sensible example to the world by offering a bonus or yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means. In this way the moron and the diseased would have no posterity to inherit their unhappy condition. The number of the feeble-minded would decrease and a heavy burden would be lifted from the shoulders of the fit.

Edited November 18, 2008 by bytor2112

[PeterVenkman]

You mean Margaret Sanger, not Mary Sanger. Last I checked, Planned Parenthood was not an advocate of eugenics. It exists to help women, children and poor people by providing resources and support in a variety of ways.

If we're gonna play the statistic game, I would like to know the source of your claim that only 7% of abortions are related to rape, incest, or risk of harm. Wikipedia provides statistics as well and states that, "In 2006, Planned Parenthood provided 289,750 surgical and medical abortions, about 3% of its total services."

Abortions accounted for only 3% of Planned Parenthood's international services related to sexual health. I find it hard to condemn a medical institution that receives 1/3 of its funding in government grants on the basis of 3% of its work.

Bytor, are those scripture references your way of saying, "you're either with us or against us?"

[Guest ceeboo]

It exists to help women, children and poor people by providing resources and support in a variety of ways.

:eek:

:eek:

Peace,

Carl

[BenRaines]

How much help do the unborn get? From your numbers over 250K of them get none.

Ben Raines

[PeterVenkman]

Right, many fetuses are aborted. Those fetuses don't get "help" although I'm not sure what type of help you are referring to or why that is an offensive position.

[bytor2112]

You mean Margaret Sanger, not Mary Sanger. Last I checked, Planned Parenthood was not an advocate of eugenics. It exists to help women, children and poor people by providing resources and support in a variety of ways.

If we're gonna play the statistic game, I would like to know the source of your claim that only 7% of abortions are related to rape, incest, or risk of harm. Wikipedia provides statistics as well and states that, "In 2006, Planned Parenthood provided 289,750 surgical and medical abortions, about 3% of its total services."

Abortions accounted for only 3% of Planned Parenthood's international services related to sexual health. I find it hard to condemn a medical institution that receives 1/3 of its funding in government grants on the basis of 3% of its work.

Bytor, are those scripture references your way of saying, "you're either with us or against us?"

Right, Margaret...it's very late. Wow only 289,750 abortions. My stats were a bit skewed. Actually it's only 1% of abortions are the result of rape or incest and 6% due to the health of the mother. Source" Planned Parenthood. See Below.

Did you really say that abortions accounted for ONLY...? Only? The scripture quotes have nothing to do with Bush??? But everything to do with making sure that we are not judging that which is evil to be good. I wouldn't lend someone money to get an abortion, unless it was for rape, incest or health....would you? I notice you didn't respond to the idea that you could fund this organization with your own private donations?

The following is a list of useful abortion statistics as well as some facts on abortifacients. All abortion numbers are derived from pro-abortion sources courtesy of The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives.

Click here for the Guttmacher Institute's latest fact sheet on abortion.

WORLDWIDE

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million

Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000

Where abortions occur:

83% of all abortions are obtained in developing countries and 17% occur in developed countries.

© Copyright 1996-2008, The Alan Guttmacher Institute. (Guttmacher Institute: Home Page)

UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)

Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who's having abortions (age)?

52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.

Who's having abortions (race)?

While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.

Who's having abortions (marital status)?

64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%.

Who's having abortions (religion)?

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Who's having abortions (income)?

Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%.

Why women have abortions

1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

At what gestational ages are abortions performed:

52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

Likelihood of abortion:

An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.

Abortion coverage:

48% of all abortion facilities provide services after the 12th week of pregnancy. 9 in 10 managed care plans routinely cover abortion or provide limited coverage. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds, virtually all of which are state funds. 16 states (CA, CT, HI, ED, IL, MA , MD, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) pay for abortions for some poor women

[MarginOfError]

You mean Margaret Sanger, not Mary Sanger. Last I checked, Planned Parenthood was not an advocate of eugenics. It exists to help women, children and poor people by providing resources and support in a variety of ways.

If we're gonna play the statistic game, I would like to know the source of your claim that only 7% of abortions are related to rape, incest, or risk of harm. Wikipedia provides statistics as well and states that, "In 2006, Planned Parenthood provided 289,750 surgical and medical abortions, about 3% of its total services."

Abortions accounted for only 3% of Planned Parenthood's international services related to sexual health. I find it hard to condemn a medical institution that receives 1/3 of its funding in government grants on the basis of 3% of its work.

Bytor, are those scripture references your way of saying, "you're either with us or against us?"

I've seen bytor's sources before, and they're legit. You don't get better statistics on sexual issues than from the Guttmacher Institute. And being that I'm a statistician by trade, I think I am well qualified to say that.

However, I worry about those 7% a lot more than I worry about the 93%. If we were able to eliminate the need for the 7%, I'd be much more open to eliminating the availability for the 93%. The explanation of why is a lot longer than I have time to contribute right now.

[Wingnut]

I wonder if they have any resources to do something with the twitching in your face.

Where's that darned "Laugh" button?

[Hemidakota]

"where's the smiley button??????"

[Guest ceeboo]

Where is the " are you sure your a Christian " button ???

[Wingnut]

Where is the " are you sure your a Christian " button ???

I'm still looking for the laugh button. I need it again.

[Guest ceeboo]

I'm still looking for the laugh button. I need it again.

I'm still looking for the " are you sure your Christian " button. I need it again.

[Moksha]

Hanging the President with his own misguided beliefs whether Bush or soon Obama is hardly trashing.

But if the interpretation of what he will do is inaccurate in the first place, based on vague imaginings and innuendo, could the outcome of this ever be helpful?

[Hemidakota]

Perhaps the first lady [Obama], stated, that only Obama can save me.

When I heard tht statement, it was one of those moments of uncontrollable laughter. Well, at least she has humor.