*waves Hi*

[Vicky Hail]

I just found this site last night and am hoping it helps me with what I'm looking for.

I converted last June and am loving every minute of LDS living. I've been librarian for the last year and now they added in making the weekly program for Sacrament. We're just going getting ready to move into our new phase 2 building and our budget is really tight, so I'm using some clipart for the front cover of the programs and I'm looking for anything and everything I can find. I've found a lot of great sites but if anyones has some goodies out there I would love it.

[Jenda]

Welcome to the board, Vicky Hail. You will meet some wonderful people here. (myself excluded. )

[Vicky Hail]

I'm seeing some questions about Joseph Smith's validity and his decendants. This is a site for LDS or RLDS or both?

[Jenda]

No, no questions about Joseph Smith's validity.

We have the occasional (or not so occasional) RLDS poster here. I am RLDS, sort of (well, actually, I am RLDS, I am only sort of Community of Christ), and occasionally we have the requisite "Which church is true" debate. It will all die down in a day or two.

[Spencer]

All Flavors are here, it is pro LDS and we try to keep it so. Feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns.

[Vicky Hail]

whew thought I had signed up for the wrong type of boards.

I like to see all kinds of opinions and versatility but I dont like to see flame wars or accusations.

[Guest bat]

Yes, they censor me so that you can't read anything that I write. It's for your own good.

[john doe]

Yes, they censor me so that you can't read anything that I write. It's for your own good.

I have to say that on this rare occasion, I will agree with something that Bat has said.

[Blessed]

May I ask what about the LDS living attracts you? and oh BTW, welcome!

[Randy Johnson]

Originally posted by Vicky Hail@Oct 26 2004, 06:40 PM

whew thought I had signed up for the wrong type of boards.

I like to see all kinds of opinions and versatility but I dont like to see flame wars or accusations.

Hi ya Sis. Vickie!!

Welcome..welcome...welcome!!!!!

You will have alot of fun here....I sure have! I am LDS too....congrats on your joining the Church!

I live in Independence, Mo.....which happens to be the World Headquarters for the Community of Christ Church ..formerly RLDS.

I just wanted you to be forewarned that I tease and otherwise aggravate and irritate Jenda! We have known each other for awhile from other discussion boards...so dont take our brotherly/sister banter for anything to awfully serious. I really do like her alot!

So..welcome..and feel free to email or PM me with any questions that may come up. Take care..and God bless.

randy

[Vicky Hail]

Originally posted by Blessed@Oct 26 2004, 09:17 PM

May I ask what about the LDS living attracts you? and oh BTW, welcome!

I don't think there is anything that I don't like about LDS living.

I still don't understand the priesthood but does anyone really understand it? lol

[Spencer]

What dont you understand?

[Ray]

Originally posted by Vicky Hail@ Oct 27 2004, 11:46 PM

I still don't understand the priesthood but does anyone really understand it? lol

The word “priesthood” is generally understood in two ways:

1) the authority God gives Man to act as God. You might consider it to be something like the power of attorney that someone can give someone else so that someone else can act for that someone.

2) the people who have the authority to act as God. I think it’s more appropriate to refer to people in some way denoting how much authority they have, such as deacon, teacher, priest, elder, etc., or Sunday School President, Stake President, President of the Fifth Quorum of Seventy, etc., but in the Church we often use the term “priesthood” to refer to anyone who has any authority to act as God.

Any more questions? Heh, nevermind, I can’t possibly answer all of them.

As a new member of the Church I recommend that you start acquiring some good books, like “Answers to Gospel Questions” by Joseph Fielding Smith, the 10th President of the Church. I recommend this book in particular because it answers a lot of questions and gives a lot of information about the gospel, probably more than any other book like it. I also recommend “Jesus the Christ” and “Articles of Faith”, both by James E. Talmage (an earlier apostle).

And btw, if you have a palm computer, you can get a ton of books in electronic format including the above and a LOT more for about $40, all in one package.

You should still ponder the scriptures while praying and seeking personal assurances from God to help you know the truth, but there are many good books written by prophets and General Authorities of the Church that will help you advance your knowledge and understanding of the gospel more quickly than you could on your own.

And btw, btw, Welcome! :)

[Vicky Hail]

ty Ray that helped a lot.

I think part of my issue was with the authority of the Priesthood. To me all men and women are equal and a lot of what I saw was the men were superior and I don't like that, so far things have worked out and I'm understanding it more. I've had two temple classes so far and looking forward to my endowment and family sealing.

my husband works with the FM Group so this week is going to be very busy, we are getting ready for our building to have an open house and dedication in the next few weeks so i'm not getting a lot of time to read the boards so please forgive me if i'm slow on answering for the next couple of weeks :)

[Ray]

Originally posted by Vicky Hail@Nov 1 2004, 05:35 AM

ty Ray that helped a lot.

I think part of my issue was with the authority of the Priesthood. To me all men and women are equal and a lot of what I saw was the men were superior and I don't like that, so far things have worked out and I'm understanding it more. I've had two temple classes so far and looking forward to my endowment and family sealing.

my husband works with the FM Group so this week is going to be very busy, we are getting ready for our building to have an open house and dedication in the next few weeks so i'm not getting a lot of time to read the boards so please forgive me if i'm slow on answering for the next couple of weeks :)

Oh, I think I see what you meant now. You saw [or thought?] that men thought they were superior to women because men have the priesthood and women don’t, and you have now modified your perception. Is that right, and if so, what do you think now?

As a man with priesthood, I will simply state that priesthood doesn’t make me superior to my wife, or men superior to women, any more than wombs makes women superior to men. Men and women both have our own powers and attributes and roles to help us help others, and we both work better together than alone.

And btw, from a more personal perspective, I will also state that I need the priesthood to help me help others as much as my wife blesses others without it. Or in other words, women seem to be much more natural at helping others, whereas men seem to need the priesthood to help us learn how to help others. Can you imagine how life would be for men without it?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2004, 04:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Nov 1 2004, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Vicky Hail@Nov 1 2004, 05:35 AM

ty Ray that helped a lot.

I think part of my issue was with the authority of the Priesthood.  To me all men and women are equal and a lot of what I saw was the men were superior and I don't like that, so far things have worked out and I'm understanding it more.  I've had two temple classes so far and looking forward to my endowment and family sealing.

my husband works with the FM Group so this week is going to be very busy, we are getting ready for our building to have an open house and dedication in the next few weeks so i'm not getting a lot of time to read the boards so please forgive me if i'm slow on answering for the next couple of weeks :)

Oh, I think I see what you meant now. You saw [or thought?] that men thought they were superior to women because men have the priesthood and women don’t, and you have now modified your perception. Is that right, and if so, what do you think now?

As a man with priesthood, I will simply state that priesthood doesn’t make me superior to my wife, or men superior to women, any more than wombs makes women superior to men. Men and women both have our own powers and attributes and roles to help us help others, and we both work better together than alone.

And btw, from a more personal perspective, I will also state that I need the priesthood to help me help others as much as my wife blesses others without it. Or in other words, women seem to be much more natural at helping others, whereas men seem to need the priesthood to help us learn how to help others. Can you imagine how life would be for men without it?

Wombs do make us superior.

[Vicky Hail]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 1 2004, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Nov 1 2004, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Vicky Hail@Nov 1 2004, 05:35 AM

ty Ray that helped a lot.

I think part of my issue was with the authority of the Priesthood.  To me all men and women are equal and a lot of what I saw was the men were superior and I don't like that, so far things have worked out and I'm understanding it more.  I've had two temple classes so far and looking forward to my endowment and family sealing.

my husband works with the FM Group so this week is going to be very busy, we are getting ready for our building to have an open house and dedication in the next few weeks so i'm not getting a lot of time to read the boards so please forgive me if i'm slow on answering for the next couple of weeks :)

Oh, I think I see what you meant now. You saw [or thought?] that men thought they were superior to women because men have the priesthood and women don’t, and you have now modified your perception. Is that right, and if so, what do you think now?

As a man with priesthood, I will simply state that priesthood doesn’t make me superior to my wife, or men superior to women, any more than wombs makes women superior to men. Men and women both have our own powers and attributes and roles to help us help others, and we both work better together than alone.

And btw, from a more personal perspective, I will also state that I need the priesthood to help me help others as much as my wife blesses others without it. Or in other words, women seem to be much more natural at helping others, whereas men seem to need the priesthood to help us learn how to help others. Can you imagine how life would be for men without it?

One of my things was I have seen some that think they are better then anyone else, for lack of a better term, "holier then thou."

I'm equal to men, I will not and refuse to be subservient to anyone man or woman. If man and woman can't work together to make all members of LDS better then we all lose

One of the things I don't care for is that the Priesthood session of General Conference are only telecast as stake centers, are not for public viewing on BYU or on video tape available in the libraries. It's like it's some sort of secret or something when everything else is available to be viewed. I realize that the priesthood sessions are available to be read in the Ensign but I'd like to watch it not read it lol I hate reading.

[Ray]

One of my things was I have seen some that think they are better then anyone else, for lack of a better term, "holier then thou."

Some people accuse me of being or acting that way, but that’s not the way I see it. I speak to everyone as an equal while also speaking boldly and directly about what is on my mind, often acknowledging that my mind has been and often continues to be influenced by the light of Christ through a testimony of the Holy Ghost. I guess some people think that if I don’t agree with them I should either speak more mildly or just not say anything at all, but at times I feel that it is important that I allow my voice to be heard. I am working on trying to be more tactful though.

I'm equal to men, I will not and refuse to be subservient to anyone man or woman. If man and woman can't work together to make all members of LDS better then we all lose 

Yes, we should all work together, but we all have different roles to play in life, whether in our families or in the Church or in the world in general, and some of us have been given authority or more authority than other people. You do believe in being subservient to authority, don’t you? If you have come to accept the prophet and apostles as representatives of our Lord, with our Lord’s authority to act in behalf of His Church, why do you then find it difficult to accept the idea that those prophets and apostles have delegated some of their authority to other people in the Church? Is there a limit to how much authority you will be subservient to?

Btw, I had a problem with authority when I was younger too, and it still bothers me to see somebody use their authority unrighteously, but I now understand and accept the fact that Jesus will hold everyone accountable for how we use our authority and how we submit to other authorities. And as the apostle Peter said, submitting to people who use their authority unrighteously will be to our ultimate benefit, helping us realize more of the agony our Lord endured when He submitted to unrighteous authority and making us more worthy of being honored and glorified with Him.

One of the things I don't care for is that the Priesthood session of General Conference are only telecast in stake centers, and are not for public viewing on BYU or on video tape available in the libraries. It's like it's some sort of secret or something when everything else is available to be viewed. I realize that the priesthood sessions are available to be read in the Ensign but I'd like to watch it not read it lol I hate reading.

Priesthood broadcasts are for the men of the Church just as Relief Society broadcasts are for the women of the Church, and not for the Church or the world in general. I believe there is a way for other members of the Church to watch either broadcast though, and I say that because my stake president recently showed the priesthood session video to the combined Relief Society / Priesthood of my ward. Talk to your bishop to get more information.

I wonder why you feel the need to watch priesthood broadcasts, though. I’ve never felt the urge to see Relief Society broadcasts, probably because I understand that they’ll be talking about things that are specifically related to women. I do love and honor the Relief Society association, though, because I can see the good that it does for my wife.

[StrawberryFields]

Welcome!

Vickie, are you married to a priesthood holder?

Along with the priesthood comes a responsibility. Anyone who uses the priesthood to make a woman feel subservient is wrong. I have seen the priesthood work miracles and I appreciate having it in my home. I am grateful that I don't have to carry the priesthood responsibilities along with the never ending responsibilities that I carry as a woman. Our Heavenly Father has infinite wisdom and I trust that he knows how much men really need the priesthood.

[Vicky Hail]

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 2 2004, 10:22 AM

One of my things was I have seen some that think they are better then anyone else, for lack of a better term, "holier then thou."

Some people accuse me of being or acting that way, but that’s not the way I see it. I speak to everyone as an equal while also speaking boldly and directly about what is on my mind, often acknowledging that my mind has been and often continues to be influenced by the light of Christ through a testimony of the Holy Ghost. I guess some people think that if I don’t agree with them I should either speak more mildly or just not say anything at all, but at times I feel that it is important that I allow my voice to be heard. I am working on trying to be more tactful though.

I'm equal to men, I will not and refuse to be subservient to anyone man or woman. If man and woman can't work together to make all members of LDS better then we all lose 

Yes, we should all work together, but we all have different roles to play in life, whether in our families or in the Church or in the world in general, and some of us have been given authority or more authority than other people. You do believe in being subservient to authority, don’t you? If you have come to accept the prophet and apostles as representatives of our Lord, with our Lord’s authority to act in behalf of His Church, why do you then find it difficult to accept the idea that those prophets and apostles have delegated some of their authority to other people in the Church? Is there a limit to how much authority you will be subservient to?

Btw, I had a problem with authority when I was younger too, and it still bothers me to see somebody use their authority unrighteously, but I now understand and accept the fact that Jesus will hold everyone accountable for how we use our authority and how we submit to other authorities. And as the apostle Peter said, submitting to people who use their authority unrighteously will be to our ultimate benefit, helping us realize more of the agony our Lord endured when He submitted to unrighteous authority and making us more worthy of being honored and glorified with Him.

One of the things I don't care for is that the Priesthood session of General Conference are only telecast in stake centers, and are not for public viewing on BYU or on video tape available in the libraries. It's like it's some sort of secret or something when everything else is available to be viewed. I realize that the priesthood sessions are available to be read in the Ensign but I'd like to watch it not read it lol I hate reading.

Priesthood broadcasts are for the men of the Church just as Relief Society broadcasts are for the women of the Church, and not for the Church or the world in general. I believe there is a way for other members of the Church to watch either broadcast though, and I say that because my stake president recently showed the priesthood session video to the combined Relief Society / Priesthood of my ward. Talk to your bishop to get more information.

I wonder why you feel the need to watch priesthood broadcasts, though. I’ve never felt the urge to see Relief Society broadcasts, probably because I understand that they’ll be talking about things that are specifically related to women. I do love and honor the Relief Society association, though, because I can see the good that it does for my wife.

I see a few of the women in the church stand back and look like a wallflower when their husbands are present, but when they are alone talk about a major difference, they are talkative and don't feel like they should just stand there and look pretty while their husbands do all the talking.

I'm 37 so having an issue with authority because I'm young doesn't ring true.

The reason I'm asking about the Priesthood sessions is because all the rest are televised and available in the libraries for viewing but not the priesthood session, and no one seems to have an answer to why.

I guess in a way I'm asking why is it that only men are delegated any authority in the church over women.

I guess I just have a ton of questions, but for now it's back out to the church to finish unpacking our new library package I got today WEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Ray]

Originally posted by Vicky Hail@ Nov 3 2004, 01:29 PM

I guess in a way I'm asking why is it that only men are delegated any authority in the church over women.

Oh, I see now. Good question. I think the short answer is that Jesus gives authority to men because He sees good reasons to do that, even though there are some women who think that Jesus would rather have things differently.

Have you ever realized that God said that a woman’s desire should be towards her husband? What do you think God meant by that? Do you think God was referring to sexual desires? Surely you wouldn’t say that you desire your husband any more than he desires you, or more than men desire women.

Have you ever realized that Jesus appointed only men to be His apostles during His mortal ministry? Why do you suppose Jesus did that? Do you think that was only because Jesus thought the world wasn’t ready for the woman’s movement at that time? Don’t you think Jesus would have helped to get the world ready for the woman’s movement by appointing women to be leaders if that was what Jesus really wanted?

Have you considered the words of the apostle Paul in relation to the roles of men and women? Or do you think the apostle Paul thought that way simply because he also didn’t think the world was ready for the women’s movement?

And btw, what is the women’s movement? What point do you think women supporting the women’s movement really want to be emphasized? Do you think God would really rather have women and men in the same roles, doing the same things for their each other and their families, so that there is no distinguishable role or sphere of their own? Or do you think God understands that men and women are different and gives each of them a role suited to their attributes?

Well, while I think men and women are equally precious in the sight of God, I also think that men and women work better in different roles because they each have different attributes and characteristics making up what it really means to be a man or a woman.

Note that I am saying different, not better, because one role is not better than another.

In other words, Jesus supports the idea that men should be given roles of leadership because leadership is something men naturally desire, whereas women naturally desire men who are good leaders. Surely you must have noticed that. And yes, while there are some women who think women should be given the same roles and responsibilities as men, I think those women fail to see that things would work better in their relationships with men if they supported men the way God has counseled.

Btw, I just recently found out about that palm software and I’m getting a palm computer for Christmas mainly for that, thanks to my wonderful wife who wants me to continue to learn more and more about the gospel so that we can both be in the celestial kingdom together. :)

[shanstress70]

Ray, do you think women should be allowed to vote?

Do you think that women should be allowed to own property?

Do you think that women who work should get the same pay as men for doing the same work?

To some extent, I agree with you about women and men being naturally better at some roles than others. For example, I don't agree that women are good in combat, as we tend to be nurturers. But I do believe that some women can thrive and surpass many men in leadership roles. The pastor at my church is a female, and she is wonderful... much more caring and concerned than many men I know. I love the feeling that no gender is placed in authority another. Don't get me wrong, though. I have known of many male pastors who are wonderful too.

I also think that it is good for women to be in public office. It is nice for people of all genders, races, etc. to be represented.

As for being the head of household, some women have no choice but to do this, as some men take off, leaving their children and responsibilities. I am lucky to have a wonderful, responsible husband, but my mother was not so lucky. She was one of the best leaders I know of, doing what she had to do to raise three children. Women like that are to be celebrated, IMO.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 4 2004, 03:16 PM

Oh My.

This sounds like you think women should be subservient to men...Is this what God has counseled??? What happened in the Garden of Eden? Eve was created so that man should not be alone. She was created from a rib signifying a partner, not his heel for her to be walked upon by him. She was counseled to only hearken to the man when he is following the words of Our Father In Heaven in righteousness.

Women are just as capable to give leadership as a man. I agree with what shanstress wrote concerning this idea of leadership roles. As far as leadership in the church, where would a bishop be without women in leadership position? He could not carry off the functions of a ward without the strong leadership that women give. In many ways, the church in giving us these leadership positions has trained us to become leaders. Women are often times the leaders in their household because they posses the attributes. I have heard, many times, from men at the pulpit, that their wives are the spiritual leaders. Sometimes women must assume the role of a leader by default, the man simply doesn't choose to lead, or he leads in unrighteousness. Men are not as perfect as they profess to be and a good woman is there to build and strengthen him. A very good woman can mold and create a man into a great leader and husband, and let him believe that he did it all on his own. . You will never see me walking behind my husband (so to speak), it is at his side in righteousness or he walks alone. Men and women need each other, and that is the way it was intended to be. Leadership is not only an attribute given to one sex and it has been proven, and will continue to be proven time and time again.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Nov 5 2004, 09:54 AM

Strawberry: I was right there with you until you made this statement. Have you, by chance, been reading "Fascinating Womanhood"? This sounds like one of the manipulative techniques the author advocates women to use to bolster their husbands' fragile egos. I know you have a good marriage, and maybe it's just your choice of words, but is marriage really about creating and molding each other? Every marriage is different, but I like a good, equal partnership where considerate honesty, as well as love and commitment are the foundation. I think spouses should be supportive of each other, but shouldn't have to deceive the other into thinking that they did it all by themselves. I think it's okay, and even necessary for men to recognize and appreciate their wives' efforts. Otherwise the wife could unknowingly be creating a monster! :)

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 4 2004, 02:16 PM

Have you ever realized that Jesus appointed only men to be His apostles during His mortal ministry? Why do you suppose Jesus did that? Do you think that was only because Jesus thought the world wasn’t ready for the woman’s movement at that time? Don’t you think Jesus would have helped to get the world ready for the woman’s movement by appointing women to be leaders if that was what Jesus really wanted?

Apparently you've never read the Nag Hammadi scrolls written by very early Christians. Their writings refer to Mary Magdalene as an apostle.