word of wisdom and meat

[BabyJane]

"Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

This is probably a very simple question :) But I have always wondered about it.

Is this part to be taken literally? Because if so; not many of us actually follow this part of the Word of Wisdom, do we? My family eats meat all the time.

Should we basically be vegetarians, besides sometimes - in cold and famine? That's what it's saying, isn't it?

Same with grains? "14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; 15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger."

If someone wanted to follow the Word Of Wisdom to the teeth, what can they eat!? Fruits and Veggies? :)

Edited January 2, 2009 by BabyJane

[BenRaines]

Considering what they say a caveman ate of meat I guess I eat it sparingly. Compared to a vegetarian I would not say it is sparingly.

I read somewhere in the Bible that to condemn the eating of meat is not of God.

Ben Raines

[pam]

I believe the eating of meat, as in all other things, should be consumed in moderation. Too much of most things are not healthy for us. I am mainly referring to the consumption of red meat. Just my opinion.

[Hemidakota]

I am meat eater. :) Whether it is animals or vegetation. :)

Gratitude is the key. This for me has changed dramatically when now I give thanks to those lower intelligences [animals, vegetation, and so forth], for help in sustaining me in mortality. I never reach this point in my life about the life we eat [intelligences], until I came to a greater understanding of the Atonement and Justice [intelligences].

I hope and pray that others may gain some insight on this subject. That we are not the only life on this planet. Yes! We maybe the top of the creation's list, but the lesser intelligences [depicted in Geneses chapter 1 and 2] that are not human will honor us as we honor them.

[Hemidakota]

I believe the eating of meat, as in all other things, should be consumed in moderation. Too much of most things are not healthy for us. I am mainly referring to the consumption of red meat. Just my opinion.

Your opinion is correct as for I am concern. Where it is white, red, dark, or any other range of color of meats, should be eaten with gratitude and sparely. Moderation of all of food ranges should be included throughout the day.

[BenRaines]

The redder the better on meat.

Ben Raines

[pam]

that are not human will honor us as we honor them

I honor and give thanks to that cow that gave it's life that I might enjoy my prime rib every time I eat it.

[FunkyTown]

BabyJane said:

"Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

This is probably a very simple question But I have always wondered about it.

Is this part to be taken literally? Because if so; not many of us actually follow this part of the Word of Wisdom, do we? My family eats meat all the time.

Should we basically be vegetarians, besides sometimes - in cold and famine? That's what it's saying, isn't it?

Same with grains? "14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; 15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger."

If someone wanted to follow the Word Of Wisdom to the teeth, what can they eat!? Fruits and Veggies?

You raise a good point and one that few members of the church adhere to: The Word of Wisdom is an admonition towards health. However, many members have developed a legalistic viewpoint towards it that borders on dangerous.

However, here are some things recently discovered about meats that shows the prophetic nature of the Word of Wisdom:

 

- Too much red meat leads to bowel cancer.

Each cow requires about 25 acres of land to feed:

How many acres does a single cow need for grazing? - Yahoo! Answers

Something that will be found, as more and more people in China and around the world start to eat more meat like Westerners do, is that there simply isn't enough to go around. The more cows that are grown, the more land must be dedicated to simply feeding them. Am I guilty of eating too much meat? Sure. I don't know what the answer is.

[a-train]

I read somewhere in the Bible that to condemn the eating of meat is not of God.

Ben Raines

It was Paul, talking about the false prophets of the latter times which will be "forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." (1 Tim 4:3)

To imagine the "meat" Paul is talking about is vegetable, would be to ignore verse five which includes the word "creature".

The Word of Wisdom DOES counsel us to eat meat sparingly. It also advocates "mild drinks" of "barley" in the seventeenth verse, id est: BEER.

What we call the Word of Wisdom today (the forbidding of: alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea whether cold or hot, and harmful drugs), is a modern

commandment given through the brethren, it is not actually the Word of Wisdom found in Doctrine and Covenants section 89.

A simple differentiation of how the term "Word of Wisdom" is modernly used and how it was used in 1833 is necessary to avoid confusion. This should not annoy or frighten us when we learn of Joseph Smith's having owned a bar in the 1840's in Nauvoo, almost a decade after the reception of the Word of Wisdom. It should also not cause us trouble when we see the words: "not by commandment or constraint" in the first verse. Further, this understanding helps us in considering the modern commandment against iced tea.

Could such commandments be lifted some day? Will Mormons be drinking a nice cold beer or iced tea in the future? It is perhaps as possible as it is improbable.

-a-train

[Elgama]

Personally I do only meat in the winter, I am considering not bothering with that either. Its upto each of us what sparingly means

-Charley

[NeuroTypical]

Here's some scriptural delving according to me. It ain't gospel, and you won't find my opinions in any publication of the church, so take it for what it's worth.

D&C 89 seems clear enough: meat "should not be used, only in times of winter/cold/famine". If you go directly to LDS.com and look up the chapter, here's what you'll see:

Note the comma after the phrase "should not be used". However, if you compare that with a copy of the same section, out of an original 1835 Book of Commandments:

Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence.

The original text reads 'They should not be used only in times of winter/cold/famine'. In other words, anyone telling you meat is only for winter/cold/famine isn't telling you what the Lord thinks.

Compare to D&C 49:18-19 "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance."

See, back in Joseph Smith's day, there was indeed a sort of 'religious diet fad' of the day, advocating limiting or eliminating meats from our diet. D&C 49 explicitly counters this idea. The original Book of Commandments Word of Wisdom section explicitly counters this idea. Somewhere, as we fallible humans added verse structure and tried to publish new editions, a comma crept in, and made it harder to understand.

This line of reasoning sort of springs from me here. I haven't heard anyone else mention this comma - certainly I've not heard any church leader mention it. So take my post for what it's worth - the opinion of some random Loudmouth Mormon. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'm certainly willing to change my tune.

(Unfortunately for us all-you-can-eat buffet lovers, the word "sparingly" seems consistent, unambiguous, clear, and unchanged.)

LM

[BenRaines]

Thanks A-train.

Ben Raines

[hordak]

Note the absence of a comma after the phrase "should not be used". It seems to have changed places, and now appears right after "it is pleasing unto me". This changes the sentence structure, and changes the meaning of the sentence.

But wouldn't the GAs have to approve of a change to the scriptures?

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

I've been amazed all my life how few people will actually read the Word of Wisdom. And how many of them, having read it, will ignore what it says in favor of what they think it means.

Best thing I've ever heard about it was said to me by a fellow grad student at BYU:

"I don't want to hear about the Word of Wisdom from a 300-pound Bishop."

[Hemidakota]

Some thoughts from Elder John A. Widstoe;

The Word of Wisdom is concerned largely with the nature of the food and drink taken into the body. That is in full accord with modern views. The positive teachings of the Word of Wisdom in the light of present-day science may be summarized as follows:

1. The Moderate Use of Meat. The flesh of animals should be used sparingly, chiefly in cold weather.

2. The Liberal Use of Fruits. Fruits of all kinds, especially fresh fruits, should be a regular part of the human dietary.

3. The Regular Use of Vegetables. All the recognized edible vegetables, leafy, root and tuber, should be eaten daily. The leafy vegetables and some of the others should be eaten in their fresh state.

4. The Basic Use of Grains. The daily dietary should include as its basis, properly prepared grains. The whole wheat kernel should preferably be ground for bread or porridge. All grains are good foods, but wheat is best for the use of man. Other seeds and nuts also form valuable foods.

5. Health-giving Beverages. Pure, fresh water should be drunk freely, at arising and between meals throughout the day. Milk, fruit juices and grain extracts should supplement the intake of pure water in supplying the body with the necessary liquid.

6. Proper Period of Sleep. The body should be invigorated by regular, preferably early sleep, ending in early morning.

7. Habits of Regular Work and Play. Health requires regular and steady physical labor and intellectual effort.

8. A Correct Mental Attitude. Faith, hope, charity, and a constant seeking after the truth of life and the universe with a determination to accept it when found, form the foundation blocks for good health. A sound religious philosophy is a pre-requisite for good health. (Program of the Church, pp. 38-39) TLDP:741-42

[Hemidakota]

But wouldn't the GAs have to approve of a change to the scriptures?

Exactly...

[NeuroTypical]

But wouldn't the GAs have to approve of a change to the scriptures?

Not if it was a printing error that nobody noticed.

Our Book of Mormons have printing errors and changes that nobody notices. Professor Skousen has been publishing volume upon volume of his "Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon" books, trying to discover the original text and document the changes.

Maxwell Institute - Latest Findings in the Book of Mormon Critical Text Project

Times and Seasons - 12 Answers from Royal Skousen

If it can happen in the BoM, why not in the D&C?

Again, all this is my pet theory. Feel free to discard it for any reason you like. But at the end of the day, our current BoM says not to eat meat unless it's winter or famine, and our church leaders say "don't worry about that, just eat it sparingly". If any of you folks don't like my best guess - I'd be happy to hear yours.

LM

[hordak]

Not if it was a printing error that nobody noticed.

If it can happen in the BoM, why not in the D&C?

I'd be happy to hear yours.

LM

That could be the case. I think the WoW was given not by command or constraint because it is general overall heath advice and not a means of judging a persons righteousness.

Jesus taught

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

[Hemidakota]

Not if it was a printing error that nobody noticed.

Our Book of Mormons have printing errors and changes that nobody notices. Professor Skousen has been publishing volume upon volume of his "Analysis of Textual Variants of the Book of Mormon" books, trying to discover the original text and document the changes.

Maxwell Institute - Latest Findings in the Book of Mormon Critical Text Project

Times and Seasons - 12 Answers from Royal Skousen

If it can happen in the BoM, why not in the D&C?

Again, all this is my pet theory. Feel free to discard it for any reason you like. But at the end of the day, our current BoM says not to eat meat unless it's winter or famine, and our church leaders say "don't worry about that, just eat it sparingly". If any of you folks don't like my best guess - I'd be happy to hear yours.

LM

I do understand your point...

Edited January 3, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Hoping this may shred some additional light on the background of this D&C section and provide some further light on verse 2:

Background information on section 89

"The only comment made by the Prophet Joseph Smith, February 27, 1833, when the revelation on the Word of Wisdom was received, is: 'I received the following revelation.' In those early days of the Church men had not been trained when they came into the Church that their bodies were tabernacles which should be kept sanctified and cleansed physically and morally, as well as spiritually. The use of liquor, tobacco and stimulants of various kinds, was very common. Tea and coffee were looked upon as foods, and the same to some extent was the attitude towards alcoholic beverages." (Joseph Fielding Smith, CHMR 1:382-83.)

"I think I am as well acquainted with the circumstances which led to the giving of the Word of Wisdom as any man in the Church, although I was not present at the time to witness them. The first school of the prophets was held in a small room situated over the Prophet Joseph's kitchen, in a house which belonged to Bishop Whitney, and which was attached to his store, which store probably might be about fifteen feet square. In the rear of this building was a kitchen, probably ten by fourteen feet, containing rooms and pantries. Over this kitchen was situated the room in which the Prophet received revelations and in which he instructed his brethren. The brethren came to that place for hundreds of miles to attend school in a little room probably no larger than eleven by fourteen. When they assembled together in this room after breakfast, the first they did was to light their pipes, and, while smoking, talk about the great things of the kingdom, and spit all over the room, and as soon as the pipe was out of their mouths a large chew of tobacco would then be taken. Often when the Prophet entered the room to give the school instructions he would find himself in a cloud of tobacco smoke. This, and the complaints of his wife at having to clean so filthy a floor, made the Prophet think upon the matter, and he inquired of the Lord relating to the conduct of the Elders in using tobacco, and the revelation known as the Word of Wisdom was the result of his inquiry." (Brigham Young, JD 12:158.)

"On the 27th day of February, 1833, [at Kirtland, Ohio] the Prophet received the revelation known as the Word of Wisdom, warning the people to abstain from impurities and grossness in their food and drink, and promising them rich blessings of physical strength and protection from the power of the adversary as a reward for their obedience. . . . Its delivery to Joseph marks another step in the divine plan for man's eventual elevation to divine acceptability." (George Q. Cannon, LJS, pp. 129-30)

D&C 89:2

"not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation"

"The reason undoubtedly why the Word of Wisdom was given—as not by 'commandment or restraint' was that at that time, at least, if it had been given as a commandment it would have brought every man, addicted to the use of these noxious things, under condemnation; so the Lord was merciful and gave them a chance to overcome, before He brought them under the law. Later on, it was announced from this stand, by President Brigham Young [JD 12:118] that the Word of Wisdom was a revelation and a command of the Lord." (Joseph F. Smith, CR, October 1913, p. 14.)

"It is expressly stated that it is given 'not by commandment or constraint,' but as a Word of Wisdom—a word dictated by wisdom. It is a commandment that may be compared to that issued by the General Council at Jerusalem to the Gentiles, concerning the abstinence from meats offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from fornication, of which the Apostles wrote, 'From which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well' (Acts 15:29)." (Smith and Sjodahl, DCC, p. 571.)

"The High Council of the Church over which the Prophet Joseph Smith presided declared in 1834 by unanimous vote after a full and free discussion on the subject, that, 'No official member of this Church is worthy to hold office after having the Word of Wisdom properly taught him; and he, the official member, neglecting to comply with or obey it.'" (Joseph Fielding Smith, ECH, p. 169.)

"The Word of Wisdom revelation was given on February 27, 1833, but its acceptance by many in the Church was gradual. On September 9, 1851, some eighteen years after the revelation was given, President Brigham Young proposed in a general conference that all Saints discontinue the use of tea, coffee, tobacco, and whiskey. The motion carried unanimously, and the principle known as the Word of Wisdom was accepted as a binding commandment for all members. ('General Minutes of Conference,' Millennial Star 14:35 [Feb. 1, 1852].) But the Saints were slow to remember their covenants. Repeated admonitions from the prophets to observe the Word of Wisdom met with varying degrees of obedience. As late as the October conference of 1942, the First Presidency (Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., and David O. McKay) urged the Saints to 'quit trifling with this law and so to live it that we may claim its promises.'" (First Presidency, IE 45:687, November 1942.)

"The Lord gave in a sacred revelation in 1833 what we have more recently learned through research: 'Hot drinks are not for the body.' This is tea and coffee. 'Tobacco is not for the body . . . and is not good for man. . . . Wine or strong drink . . . is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father.' (See D&C 89:5-9.) The Lord knew when these things were discovered that constant smoking could lead to cancer; that constant drinking could lead to many accidents and diseases. It is now a command to all his members, and as we see some members using these prohibited things, we wonder how they reconcile such activities with the statement of the Lord Jesus Christ when he said: 'And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?' (Luke 6:46.) We sincerely hope the members of the Church will give heed." (Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign, May 1975, p. 6.)

Reference: Companion to Your Study of the Doctrine and Covenants, vol. 1

by Daniel H. Ludlow

[lilered]

It always perplexes me in this day and age given what we now know about the hazards to our health of using tobacco and caffeine, that church members continue to wrestle with the committment, commandment, benefits, and promises of adhering to the W of W..

[Hemidakota]

It is not just the two you listed but anything that is consumed excessively should be looked at for this year. Something I will be doing this year myself.

[Iggy]

The Word of Wisdom DOES counsel us to eat meat sparingly. It also advocates "mild drinks" of "barley" in the seventeenth verse, id est: BEER.

-a-train

I believe the mild drinks of barley does not mean fermented and turned into alcohol.

As an example, Pero and Postum, are made of barley and other grains.

My Grandmother made chicory (Chicory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) "coffee" and drank it in the evening, all of us children drank it too, with milk, sugar and cinnamon added to it.

[Iggy]

It always perplexes me in this day and age given what we now know about the hazards to our health of using tobacco and caffeine, that church members continue to wrestle with the committment, commandment, benefits, and promises of adhering to the W of W..

I agree with you lilered- my PET THEORY is it is because they are addicted to these substances.

[Elgama]

It always perplexes me in this day and age given what we now know about the hazards to our health of using tobacco and caffeine, that church members continue to wrestle with the committment, commandment, benefits, and promises of adhering to the W of W..

we all have struggles living the gospel perfectly, whilst the WoW is something I don't struggle too badly with I am not living D&C 89, I do struggle with biting my nails, reading my scriptures everyday etc We all have our own struggles some more than others but until I can live the gospel perfectly not sure I am in a position to be perplexed about those that struggle with other aspects of it, and I would take the counsel from a 300lb Bishop I am sure i have done he was far from obese but well over 6ft8 of large build and not skinny with it, and one of the wisest men I have ever met.

And as much as I do keep the WoW OK I am not a great advert to it know far healthier people that don't

-Charley